2000 points Beastclaw Raiders list

[ogmaadn]

Hi there,

I'm thinking about building this list of Beasclaw Raiders starting from the Icewind Assault box:

1x Frostlord on Stonehorn

1x Icebrow Hunter

1x Thundertusk Beastriders

2x4 Mournfang

1x3 Icefall Yhetees

1x4 Frost Sabres

1980 points

As you can see, it is a low number of models (18) so I might struggle in some missions, but no that low compared to many Beastclaw Raiders armies. Also, I've got a bit of everything trying to run as many options as possible (I'd like to include every Beastclaw Raiders' model on this particular list).

However, there is no batallion because of the lack of points left (a Skal perhaps could be good to make the most of the Frost Sabres, but I'd need 40 additional points though).

What do you think about this list? Some specific questions about it:

Should I drop some Mournfangs or something else just to include a Batallion (such as Skal)? Or should the list work fine as it is right now, with no Batallion? 

Which weapons and equipment should I choose for each one of these units? Not sure at all about Frostlord, Beastriders, Hunter and Mournfangs.

And one last question regarding Mournfangs: I was thinking of 2 units of 4 Mournfangs each. Is it better splitting them into 4 units of 2 instead? 

[MightyQwan]

If you go Skal I feel you have to go a lot heavier than this. The hunter and the sabres are the squishiest part of you army and would be most useful as objective capturing units. If that is the case I would drop the hunter and use the points to upgrade the Thundertusk beastrider to a huskard to give you some healing. With the extra points you can take more sabres or yhetties.

With what you have I would stick with no battalion and more bodies. If you want a batallion I would drop the hunter, yhetties and reduce one of the squads of mournfang to 2 and get yourself a huskard on Thundertusk and stonenehorn beastrider and with that take either Jorlbad for the run and charge or Eurlbad for the extra mortal wounds and attack on you general. 

Here is what the army would look like 

Frost lord on Stonehorn 460

Huskard on thundertusk 340

Stonehorn beastrider 360

1x 4 mournfang 400

1x2 mournfang 200

3x2 sabres 180

Eurlbad 60

Total 2000 on the nose 

 

 

[N_Watson]

Both the Jorlbad and Eurlbad require 

1 Huskard on Stonehorn
1 Stonehorn Beastrider

2 Mournfang packs 

This leaves you with not many points if you also want a Frostlord on Stonehorn (Why wouldn't you take one????) and a Huskard Thundertusk. 
If you want to be truly competitive with beastclaw, playing matched play and against other people who are min maxing their armies for a victory at all costs, you probably want to pick yourself up a few boxes of Savage orruks for battleline and holding objectives. 
Example would be something like 

Frostlord on Stonehorn  460 - Battlebrew

Frostlord on Stonehorn 460 - General with +1 to hit trait

Huskard on thundertusk 340

Wardok (2+ save frostlord) 80

Stonehorn beastrider 360

10 x 3 Savage orruk 300

If you do not care about winning at all costs, and looking for some fun games, what you have looks good. you get to use all the models, can play around with the traits, etc. 
I plan to do these guys as my next army, and I do not think I will run them without one of the formations. They seem really thematic, and if the dice go your way, you have the potential to ruin someones best laid plans with the sheer impact they can bring. 

 

[ogmaadn]

Thank yoy @MightyQwan and @N_Watson for your help!

According to what you say, I think the best option is sticking to a pure Beastclaw Raiders army for now (so no Orruks I'm afraid, I don`t like them that much).

I still have some questions about Mournfang Packs in this particular list regarding their equipment/weapons (not sure if it is worth including a Hornblower and a Banner Bearer) and whether or not I should split them into units of either 2, 3 or 4 Mournfangs.

Thank you once againg  

[MightyQwan]

I personally like them with gargant hackers myself. I feel like having that 3 damage and -1 rend is worth the loss of an attack. 

As for the size the bigger the better. Your strenghs are in your ability to maneuver and charge. Smaller units will get bogged down more often. But you will have to figure out a balance because you need to have units to help capture objectives. I feel 4 in a unit is where that balance is. Bigger and it can be hard to fit the entire unit in combat as well as veing an enormous point sink and smaller they get bogged down. 

Hornblower I think is very usefully. 3d6 pick the highest charge means you can be more aggressive with them and have a reasonable shot a pulling off long charges.

The banner less so. Few are the enemies that will be able to kill more that one whole 7 wounded model in a turn. That mean that most time when you do battle shock a model will only run away on a 6. When it happens it hurts real bad, but luckily it doesn't happen often.

I however do not know if they carry the standard equipment pmus the banner/horn If they attack as the rest of the squad does with gargant hackers then you lose nothing taking them both as they are included in the cost of the unit. 

[Goodwin]

Command models attack with the same equipment as the unit. 

Just in case, you could always strap a gargant hacker to the back of your musician or vice versa.  I do this as I always plan to play against someone who's like "IF I DON'T SEE IT, ITS NOT THERE."  If you're running smaller squads, where all you have is Command, then it could be difficult for the opponent to see.  I'd make it clear when you're setting up what they have if you haven't modeled it on them.  But, if you have the bitz, just get creative.  They're such a low model count army that tinkering with a guy or two to have Command + fancy weapons shouldn't be too bad!

 

P.S. Don't tell the Chaos guys I'm in here.  I may have bought Icewind Assault. >.>

[MightyQwan]

@Goodwinyou are not the only one to fall prey to Icewind Assault. I was staying away from AoS not because I hated GW for killing the old world (never played WFB) but because my wife will threaten to divorce me if I started getting more plastic Crack. But Ogres on Mammoths! Who can resist that. So don't worry you are among friends who understand lol. 

[himmo]

That's my idea for Beastclaw a little mixed with others destruction units. 

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)

Units
Savage Orruk Arrowboys x 20 (200)
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 6 (360)
Icefall Yhetees x 6 (240)
Mournfang Pack x 4 (400)
Maneaters x 3 (220)

Batallions
Braggoth's Beast Hammer (160)
 

[MightyQwan]

.

12 hours ago, himmo said:

That's my idea for Beastclaw a little mixed with others destruction units. 

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)

Units
Savage Orruk Arrowboys x 20 (200)
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 6 (360)
Icefall Yhetees x 6 (240)
Mournfang Pack x 4 (400)
Maneaters x 3 (220)

Batallions
Braggoth's Beast Hammer (160)
 

You are missing your Battle line. Arrow boys are not battle line. You woukd need a unit of green skins, grots, Ogres or Savage orruk Boyz to make this list legal

[N_Watson]

Going to be picking up my winter project this week or next and I am going for Beastclaw. I play purely Generals Handbook scenarios and play to go to as many tournaments as I can get to next year, so looking for what can compete. 

What I have been considering is something like this...

Frostlord on stonehorn x 2

Huskard on Thundertusk x 2

40 Savage orruks. 

I will be magnetising the behemoths so that they can be anything and I need battle line as my current army is Ironjawz, so would be cool to trying a mix mash for fun games now and then. 

Has anyone got experience playing many games with/against Beastclaw in generals handbook to know if I would be better dropping a behemoth for mournfang is better or if the above is pretty much the most optimal you can have for a 1 list event? 

2nd question is whether anyone has experience on Magnetising these models and if they have, could they show me some pictures of them for help with this? 

 

Thanks!

[N_Watson]

Shameless bump before I go to the store lol. 

[bolzo]

i have played only beastclaw rider list: 1500 point (frost lord on stonehorn plus some behmot and mourfang) 8 piece army and it's not competitive. you must destroy all model of your opponent. if the opponent is smart you cannot do that.

Now i will buy 3x10 savage orcs for objective holding.

[MightyQwan]

1 hour ago, bolzo said:

i have played only beastclaw rider list: 1500 point (frost lord on stonehorn plus some behmot and mourfang) 8 piece army and it's not competitive. you must destroy all model of your opponent. if the opponent is smart you cannot do that.

Now i will buy 3x10 savage orcs for objective holding.

Personally I think greenskins are better for this purpose. They can also be given bows and therefore can provide some ranged support while holding objectives. 

[N_Watson]

2 hours ago, MightyQwan said:

Personally I think greenskins are better for this purpose. They can also be given bows and therefore can provide some ranged support while holding objectives. 

I am also looking for a generic Destruction battle line for Beastclaw, but hadn't really thought about Greenskinz orruks. The fact that they have 1 would vs the 2 wounds for savage orruks has me leaning more towards them. 

Do you play Beastclaw with orruk archers as battle line or is this just theory that they are better? 

[MightyQwan]

@N_Watson I play beastclaw and as with you I have ever a hard time as in many scenarios I have a hard time winning and in bigger games tabling is not always easy. So I have been asking myself the same question. One of the weaknesses of Beastclaws is a complete lack of shooting. And I was not planning on using the battle line destruction for objective capturing I figure either grots with bows or greenskins with bows. I figured grots have too low bravery and would be too easy to displace even though 20 of them with bows is so cheap. So I settled on greenskins.  At this point it is only theory though as I have not yet played a game with them (just got the boxes in this week). I figured though that they might be too busy with my Stonehorn, Thundertusk and mournfang to worry about the green skins. 

[bolzo]

i have ordered the blister of 20 savage orcs and i have build a 20x squad of grot (from the ogor sprue to save cash, maybe i will buy another 20 savage orcs but it's a waste of money because i need only half of the box)

I wil try this list:

 

LEADERS Frostlord on Stonehorn (460) Moonclan Grot Shaman (60)

UNITS Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100)

MONSTERS Stonehorn Beastriders (360) Thundertusk Beastriders (320)

WOUNDS: 100 TOTAL POINTS: 1500

if i drop the shaman i can upgrade thundertusks to stonehorn but the save 2+ for the frost lord i too cool.

 

also this list i think can work i drop frostlord for two shaman

LEADERS Moonclan Grot Shaman (60) Moonclan Grot Shaman (60)

UNITS Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100)

MONSTERS Stonehorn Beastriders (360) Stonehorn Beastriders (360) Stonehorn Beastriders (360)

WOUNDS: 104 TOTAL POINTS: 1500

 

Next week i will try this two list

[bolzo]

Yesterday i have proxed 3x10 savage orcs (whit normal orc) and tryed my list number one.

I have won the match against 1500 point of demons. I won by objective holding and using the stonehorns behind to charge and kill the enemy unit near the midlle objective! now work much better!

[ogmaadn]

Hello again!

I've been lately thinking about the low count model army list I explained on the first message of this post, specially considering what N_Watson, bolzo and MightyQwan have mentioned.

So finally I've decided not to go for a pure Beastclaw Raider list and including more models instead so that I can be more competitive. Thus I think I'm going to include some Savage Orruks since they are really tough, so my new updated army list would look like this:

1x Frostlord on Stonehorn

1x Icebrow Hunter

1x Thundertusk Beastriders

1x4 Mournfang

1x3 Icefall Yhetees

1x4 Frost Sabres

3x10 Savage Orruks

1x10 Savage Orruk Arrowboys

1980 points

I'm just dropping 1 unit of 4 Mournfangs and replacing them with 40 orruks (10 with bows and arrows) which I think is really nice for holding objectives and having a much more versatile army. If I'm not mistaken, the 3 Battlelines I'm including (3 units of 10 Savages Orruks) are enough to meet the Battleline requirements in order to make a 2000 points list legal, so it is alright.

And what about the unit of Arrowboys? Should I keep them or rather add another unit of 10 Savage Orruks?

What do you think about this list? Is it competitive enough (at least I suppose it is way more competitive than the first pure Beastclaw Raiders army list I was thinking of before since model count is hugely improved)?

Thanks!

[N_Watson]

1 hour ago, ogmaadn said:

Hello again!

I've been lately thinking about the low count model army list I explained on the first message of this post, specially considering what N_Watson, bolzo and MightyQwan have mentioned.

So finally I've decided not to go for a pure Beastclaw Raider list and including more models instead so that I can be more competitive. Thus I think I'm going to include some Savage Orruks since they are really tough, so my new updated army list would look like this:

1x Frostlord on Stonehorn

1x Icebrow Hunter

1x Thundertusk Beastriders

1x4 Mournfang

1x3 Icefall Yhetees

1x4 Frost Sabres

3x10 Savage Orruks

1x10 Savage Orruk Arrowboys

1980 points

I'm just dropping 1 unit of 4 Mournfangs and replacing them with 40 orruks (10 with bows and arrows) which I think is really nice for holding objectives and having a much more versatile army. If I'm not mistaken, the 3 Battlelines I'm including (3 units of 10 Savages Orruks) are enough to meet the Battleline requirements in order to make a 2000 points list legal, so it is alright.

And what about the unit of Arrowboys? Should I keep them or rather add another unit of 10 Savage Orruks?

What do you think about this list? Is it competitive enough (at least I suppose it is way more competitive than the first pure Beastclaw Raiders army list I was thinking of before since model count is hugely improved)?

Thanks!

Hey, I like the list. I think for 400 points, the 30x savage and 10 savage orruks bows is nice. It is 80 wounds that can focus on the objectives while you focus your beastclaw on breaking the lines. For 20 points that you have spare, it might be worth buffing the beastrider to a huskard so that you can heal and it will be a hero for 3 places of power/artefact.

I am not sold on Yhetees and Frost sabers myself . I love the hunter and his rules, but I do not know if he is worth his points. What I do love is stonehorns and thundertusks.

Have you considered that for the cost of the hunter, sabres and yhetees, you could get a huskard on stonehorn who can activate a unit of Mournfang to attack before your oponent chooses? Or dropping the Yhetees for 2 more sabres and the Skaal formation to tackle an objective or snipe some heroes in the back. This would also give you two artefacts. 

I reckon my list will look like 4 behemouths and  40 orruks. Will be picking up a skall when when I want a fun game as the hunter rules look fun!

This is all theory for me and from how I have seen other Beastclaw players use in Generals Handbook scenarios. I haven't had a chance to play Beastclaw myself and won't until I get my Ironjawz painted...

[bolzo]

17 hours ago, ogmaadn said:

Hello again!

I've been lately thinking about the low count model army list I explained on the first message of this post, specially considering what N_Watson, bolzo and MightyQwan have mentioned.

So finally I've decided not to go for a pure Beastclaw Raider list and including more models instead so that I can be more competitive. Thus I think I'm going to include some Savage Orruks since they are really tough, so my new updated army list would look like this:

1x Frostlord on Stonehorn

1x Icebrow Hunter

1x Thundertusk Beastriders

1x4 Mournfang

1x3 Icefall Yhetees

1x4 Frost Sabres

3x10 Savage Orruks

1x10 Savage Orruk Arrowboys

1980 points

I'm just dropping 1 unit of 4 Mournfangs and replacing them with 40 orruks (10 with bows and arrows) which I think is really nice for holding objectives and having a much more versatile army. If I'm not mistaken, the 3 Battlelines I'm including (3 units of 10 Savages Orruks) are enough to meet the Battleline requirements in order to make a 2000 points list legal, so it is alright.

And what about the unit of Arrowboys? Should I keep them or rather add another unit of 10 Savage Orruks?

What do you think about this list? Is it competitive enough (at least I suppose it is way more competitive than the first pure Beastclaw Raiders army list I was thinking of before since model count is hugely improved)?

Thanks!

I think you must have at least 3 behmot.  A single stone horn don t do well because it will be killed fast, but 2 or 3 will stay on the battlefiel long time!

 

Yesterday i have palyed two match whit this list

LEADERS Frostlord on Stonehorn (460) Huskard on Stonehorn (380)

UNITS Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100)

MONSTERS Stonehorn Beastriders (360)

WOUNDS: 96 TOTAL POINTS: 1500

First round against chaos, i have won by points and in the end i have also tabled out my friend. Second round against stormcast and same things happen! It's very powerfull to slow down and divide other enemy unit whit my cheap orrucs that holding objective. The 3 stone horn go around to hunt separate and single enemy unit. It's easy to clean up all battlefield! The secret is to keep your stone horns compact. A charge of two stonehorn will polverize a single enemy unit!

The hunter sucks and the yethee are cool only if you use it as a battleline in a pure beastclaw army.

[gnaleinad]

I would like to recommend a list. Warning - Quite brutal.
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460) - Artefact: Battle Brew
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80) - General, Giant Wolf mount, Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
Goblin Warboss (60) - Git Slicer, Giant Wolf mount, Artefact: Battle Brew
Units
Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) - bows
Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) - bows
Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) - bows
Grot Wolf Chariots x 1 (40)
Nasty Skulkers x 3 (40)
War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Batallions
Great GitMob (100)
Total: 2000/2000

5 leaders, 3 battlelines, 3 behemoth, 2 artillery. 

There are 4 dangerous Threat factors to confuse your opponent. 
So far in a competitive setting, no tournament army can take out all the threats.

Highest on most people list is that tanky FrostLord on Stonehorn with Battlebrew.
Next is the 2 thundertusks, and the Huskards can heal the Stonehorn!

If your opponent focus on taking down those 3 dangers, excellent!!!
Our Spear Chukkas will be free to take down his heroes/important units.
4 shots with reroll to hit, rend -2, d3 damage, are VERY good at taking out single wounds heroes and crews of artillery.

If your opponent focus on those 3 threats they will have to ignore your Great Gitmobs swarming forward, and they are no joke. 

Grots bowmen are expendable and can cover ground fast(+2 to run, destruction d6" move; best 19", worse 9")
At full strength they hit on 3s & wound on 4s when enemy units are less than 1/2 their unit size (battalion special+unit ability).
21 shots at 16", they can do very well if you focus your fire.
With "Sneaky stabbing" they can evolve into an elite unit, 3+ to hit&wound with rend -1!!!!!
If you decide to use your general's "bellowing tyrant" on a full strength "elite" unit, that's 2+ to hit!!!!!!!!
Their high model count are very good for objectives and tactical deployment against popping up special rules and stormcast teleporting.

Grot bowmen won me many games. They are always the "surprise!", after my opponent focus on my Monsters and Artillery. 

That single Wolf Chariot is DA BEST sneaky distraction and can go crazy FAR(destruction d6"+ move 12"+ run d6" + charge 2d6" = max 36", min 16")
With that kind of movement if it reaches your opponent gunline it can still be deadly!

Your Grot Warboss can sneakily try to kill a hero/monster(after weakening it with your thundertusk/stonehorn/chukkas) and gain the battleshock immunity for your Grots. 

I name this list the Sneaky Frosty Surprise!

[Nico]

I'd put the second battle brew on the Huskard - it's no joke in melee.

A single Wolf chariot is junk, but yes the rest of the list is strong. That said, your opponent should do the following - take the first turn, pepper the Grots units with sufficient shots to kill 2-3 models - Battleshock will add to this and this will remove a lot of your bonuses from having 20 models and outnumbering his own units of 20 or 2-1 outnumbering his units of 10. You then shoot everything else at one of the Thundertusks. It has to die, otherwise you get the overpowered heal. Then repeat the process in your next turn on the other Thundertusk and the artillery crew. In the interim the Stonelord has crushed your bunker wall/chaff unit.

I would recommend the Moonclan Grots as your battleline instead - 4+ saves versus shooting and effective bravery 7 at 10 or more models - this is immensely broken for their cost. Plus you have fanatics.

 

[Donal]

Tend to agree with @Nico on this. I think the great gitmob is expensive unless you invest more points into the goblins (to benefit from the bonus'). Dropping the skulkers and formation will allow you to pick up moonclan grots and fanatics. And you can still give them the bows (while also giving them netters for durability in combat). 

[gnaleinad]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I'd put the second battle brew on the Huskard - it's no joke in melee.

A single Wolf chariot is junk, but yes the rest of the list is strong. That said, your opponent should do the following - take the first turn, pepper the Grots units with sufficient shots to kill 2-3 models - Battleshock will add to this and this will remove a lot of your bonuses from having 20 models and outnumbering his own units of 20 or 2-1 outnumbering his units of 10. You then shoot everything else at one of the Thundertusks. It has to die, otherwise you get the overpowered heal. Then repeat the process in your next turn on the other Thundertusk and the artillery crew. In the interim the Stonelord has crushed your bunker wall/chaff unit.

I would recommend the Moonclan Grots as your battleline instead - 4+ saves versus shooting and effective bravery 7 at 10 or more models - this is immensely broken for their cost. Plus you have fanatics.

 

Your plan might be.. Good only in theory.
This list has 6 deployment, seldom it goes first but I get what you want to do. 
If my opponent has a Good Gunline, like Organ gun with Loremaster and Engineer and 3 Dwarf Cannons, I almost always gonna go first.

So sorry but I believe you might be underestimating that little wolf chariot. Just like all my opponents. 
The wolf chariot can reroll run and charge rolls. It can shoot and charge after running. Yes the shooting is ****** and the Grots attacks is ******, but this is a dice game!
2 shots, 7 melee attacks, at 40 points it's amazing!! 
On average it travels 19"-21" every turn, just deploy it at the 12" mark, and it almost always charges in!
The wolves are the real deal, they have 4 attacks, 4+ to hit and wound!

If the opponent have a good Gunline, this "Junk" has 4 wounds!
If the opponent waste any shooting at it, its our win!! Just think about it!!
And if the opponent is stupid enough to ignore it, trust me it can deal damage!!! Just aim for the wizard and artillery crews, it is totally a wildcard!!!

Hmmm..
About the plan to weaken the Grots...
Not all shots will wound, even if the rolling went REALLY well you need to dedicate at least 5-6 shots  to kill 2-3 models.
3 units of Grots, that's 15-20 shots at least!
And that is 15-20 shots not on the Thundertusk or Stonehorn! AWESOME!!
Battleshock will not do much, they have +2 bravery against shooting, if 3 models died, and battleshock rolls a 6, only 2 models will flee. 
And even so, the battalion ability still stand, they can still shot to hit&wound on 4s. 3 units of bowmen still can dish out good damage!

Next if there is focus fire to kill one Thundertusk, which mean the other Thundertusk will be quite untouched!! I think that is still a very good new!

If my Chukkas are crippled, that mean dedicated long range shooting was not on the Thundertusk or Stonehorn! Double AWESOME!!

The Stonehorn can go a total distance of d6"+12"+d6"+2d6", while my opponent does all the above the FrostLord will just smash a unit with Stonehorn.

THAT little Grot Warboss does 3 attacks, rend -1 and D3 damage, it's on a wolf and is constantly ignored. 
With "sneaky stabbing" and battlebrew, this little PUNK can hit&wound on 2s with rend -2 and d3 damage. Now take that.

Anyway this list is brutally tested, and proven to be very good and competitive.
4 out of 6 Battleplans for match play it has a distinctive advantage, based on Model count, average damage, mobility and counter tactics.

[Nico]

Quote

And even so, the battalion ability still stand, they can still shot to hit&wound on 4s. 3 units of bowmen still can dish out good damage!

It does stand, but if you're at 18 models left, you don't outnumber a unit of 20 any more and you don't have the buff for 20 models, so you're back to hitting on 5s and wounding on 5s, i.e. unmitigated garbage that is barely even worth rolling. Against a unit of 10, you're on 4+, 5+, so still garbage.

I'm assuming that they don't have enough firepower to drop both Thundertusks.

Quote

If my opponent has a Good Gunline, like Organ gun with Loremaster and Engineer and 3 Dwarf Cannons, I almost always gonna go first.
 

I doubt it. Unless he has put his pew pew near the 12 inch line and it consists of single wound models, so you will probably drop 12 of them with the Thundertusks. Your Stonelord is going to be hitting chaff or at least something expendable turn one, unless your opponent has never played against it before and doesn't know it can virtually charge the back line of the table. So you will achieve little by giving him the opportunity to double turn you back. As for the Thundertusks, I believe that their (utterly broken) effective range is 18 plus 8 plus D6, so 29.5 on average, so your opponent has a jolly 6 inches off his back line to be vaguely safe in for his 5 wound heroes and the like.

Quote

Battleshock will not do much, they have +2 bravery against shooting, if 3 models died, and battleshock rolls a 6, only 2 models will flee. 

This is perhaps the worst balanced and most unnecessary rule in the game. Why are 9 Grots as brave as 5 Liberators and 10 Grots braver? It's utterly ridiculous. I wrongly thought it was only Moonclan who had these broken banners. 

Quote

 

THAT little Grot Warboss does 3 attacks, rend -1 and D3 damage, it's on a wolf and is constantly ignored. 
With "sneaky stabbing" and battlebrew, this little PUNK can hit&wound on 2s with rend -2 and d3 damage. Now take that.

 

 

 

3 attacks, so probably 4 damage to a 4+ save - a mere irritation and a waste of Battlebrew. He's not the Hooded Villain. You could put a 4+ ward save vs mortal wounds on one of the Thundertusks instead.

You would clearly cast sneaky stabbing on the unit of 20 Grots, especially since it buffs pew pew as well.