Let's chat... Order Wizards (from a Sylvaneth Perspective)

[Nico]

I've discussed an Alpha Drycha list where you put Shield of Thorns on Drycha in the main Let's Chat Sylvaneth thread.

[Gengis137]

I'm reading the topic now!

[Oppenheimer]

I'm sad that you don't have any compendium wizards. Not that I think she would be a useful choice but to bad no Bretonnian damsels.

 Teclis maybe?

Having old school Alarielle would be hilarious plus her spell effects any unit.

[Aezeal]

Just proxy any mage model as a Loremaster

[Aezeal]

Quote

His low cost at 100 points, and this spell is what placed him at the top of tier one. Being able to put rerolling hits and wounds on a big hitting unit like a Spirit of Durthu, a unit of elite troops or even a big unit of basic troops is invaluable, and at 100 points it is very easy to slot him into most lists without having to redesign the list around him. Sitting 18" behind your big hitters, they are going to want to shoot him off, but in cover he will have an easy 3+ save rerolling just to make that more difficult. Otherwise, leave him more in range and make them choose between attacking the Loremaster, or attacking what he is buffing.

From the first post. I think the loremaster is a prime choice however (in case anyone didn't know) you can't cast this spell on a UNIT. So YES it's PERFECT for Durthu, but elite troops or a big unit of basic will not work since it'll only work on a single model.

[MidasKiss]

Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback. My schedule got a lot busier than expected over the last month and a bit but I'm finally hoping to update this thread a little over the next few days. 

 

I'm trying to do Compendium wizards first, feel free to offer suggestions for where you think they should be placed (but please look at their points cost, many of them are very expensive!).

[MidasKiss]

Here are my (really) quick thoughts on the Compendium wizards, but I'd really like feedback before I edit it into the main list (I was originally going to have a separate list for Compendium but I'm not sure). Like I said, very quick thoughts and I haven't played with any of these wizards, so tell me what you think (and how you would change it).

Tier 1

Teclis (200 points - leader): 200 points for a great unique spell, 3 casts and 3 unbinds at +2 and the ability to double a spells range

• Basic stats: 5 wounds, 4+ save. 6” move. Better than average damage in melee if you can hit and wound. Gets three casts and unbinds.
• Blessing of Lileath: Add two to casting and unbinding rolls for Teclis
• War Crown of Saphery: If the casting roll is at least 3 more than the spells casting value then the spells range is doubled.
• Unique Spell: Tempest (5): Select a visible unit within 18”, that unit sufferes a mortal wound and must halve the distance its models move, run and charge until your next hero phase.

With 3 casts/unbinds, +2 to cast, 200 points seems a steal for Teclis if you can fit him in your army. Half the time, Tempest will be 32” range, and can really help stop a priority unit make it to you or an objective for another turn or so. You could effectively force them to leave a hero behind, or must halt many units to wait for the one unit they really needed. God save your opponent if there is some arcane terrain handy giving him 3+ to dispel. While the sisters have obvious application once you are in combat, Teclis will be useful at any stage and if played right could help just as much by preventing combat for longer anyway.

Tier 2

Alarielle the Radient (200 points – leader):

• Basic stats: 5 wounds, 5+ save, 6” move. She heals 1 wound each hero phase. Gets two casts and unbinds.
• The Everqueen: You do not have to take battleshock tests for Highborn units within 16” of Alarielle in the battleshock phase.
• Unique spell: Boon of Life (6): Pick a unit within 20”, one model in that unit heals D6 wounds. That unit also gets a 6+ ward save against wounds or mortal wounds.

She’s a bit expensive, and her spell will depend on what you’re taking and the rules of the tournament. If you have to roll for your spells, it’s nice to have the guaranteed regrowth and the ward save is always nice. If you are picking spells, other wizards might be better, but the ability to double regrowth is very valuable if you have a few high wound models, particularly for Sylvaneth given that our monsters damage decreases rapidly with wounds taken.

Balthasar Gelt (160 points – leader): Decent spell and quite mobile, but doesn’t stand out.

• Basic stats: 5 wounds, 4+ save, 12” flying move. Better than average melee. Gets two spell casts.
• Amulet of Sea Gold: +1 to unbinding for each enemy wizard within 18”.
• Unique spell: Searing Doom (6): Pick a visible unit within 18” and roll 6 dice. That unit suffers 1 mortal wound for each dice rolled equal or higher than the units save characteristic.

His unique spell works well against heroes with good saves, expecting 3 mortal wounds for a 4+ save, or 4 for a 3+ save. At 160 points it might be a bit of an odd points value to fit in a Gnarlroot list, but if you wanted to take him you can always make something work. Not bad, but not so obvious as to belong in tier 1.

Morathi (220 points, Leader):

• Basic stats: 6 wounds, 4+ save, 16” flying move. A little better than average melee and 2 casts and unbinds.
• The First Sorceress: +1 to casting rolls
• Enchanting Beauty: Opponent must subtract 1 to hit rolls against her in the combat phase.
• Unique Spell: Arnzipal’s Black Horror (7): Pick a visible unit within 18” and roll a dice. On a 1 that unit suffers 1 mortal wound, on a 2 or 3 it suffers D3 and on a 4 or more it suffers D6 mortal wounds.

Decent stats and a good spell, but at 220 points she is maybe a little too expensive compared to other wizards.

Eltharion (340 points, Leader and Behemoth):

• Basic stats: 10 wounds, 4+ save and 16” flying move (reduces with wounds taken). Save is increased to 3+ against damage 1 attacks. Good melee damage and is better on the charge. Has one cast and unbind, but no unique spell, and has a command ability that gives re-rolls of wounds to Highborn units.

Decent in combat and highly mobile, so could make a strong choice for a unit to stick on a flank. However, at 360 points and with no unique spell there’s better options when you’re looking for wizards.

Dragon Mage (340 points - Leader, Behemoth):

• Basic stats: 14 wounds, 5+ save, 14” flying move (reduces with wounds taken). Very god melee damage and better on the charge. Good shooting attack against a unit within 12” (roll a dice, on a 1 or 2 that unit suffers 1 mortal wound, on a 3 or 4 D3, and on a 5 or 6 D6 mortal wounds. Gets one cast and unbind.
• Unique spell: Flames of the Phoenix (7): Pick a visible enemy unit within 18”. That unit suffers a mortal wound and is set ablaze. Roll another dice, on a 4 or more the unit suffers 2 more mortal wounds and the spell continues. Roll another dice, on a 4 or more the unit suffers an additional 3 mortal wounds. Keep rolling like this until you fail, adding one mortal wound each roll.

If you’re lucky, the Dragon Mage could destroy high priority units in a single turn, but on average the shooting attack will be doing around D3 mortal wounds and its spell failing half the time and doing around 3 mortal wounds when it casts. It has great combat and, if he was cheaper, you’d take him just for those lucky games when you burn that Thundertusk to death in a single turn.

Tier 3:

Fay Enchantress (160 points – leader): Useful with other Free People units, and not so much without them.

• Basic stats: 5 wounds, 4+ save, 14” move. Better than average melee and can cause a mortal wound at the beginning of her combat based on bravery. Gets two spell casts. She can try automatically cast one spell per hero phase, on a 2+ it casts and on a 1 it fails and she loses this ability for the battle.
• Grail Guardians: Re-roll failed hit rolls for Grail Knights within 10”.
• Supreme Aura of the Lady: She or another free people unit within 6” heals D3 in the hero phase.
• Unique Spell: Favour of the Fay (6): Pick one Free People unit within 16”, add 1 to their hit rolls. If the unit also has the Nobility key word, you can add 2 to the hit rolls instead.

Obviously her value is going to highly depend on whether or not you are taking other Free People units. In a Gnarlroot list that’s not at all likely, but in a mixed order list she might be able to find a home.

Shadowdancer (100 points, leader):

• Basic stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save, 8” move. 6+ ward save against wounds and mortal wounds. Below average melee. Can dance a different dance each hero phase, alternating between increasing attacks, improving wounds and improving her save to 4+ (the one that matters). Gets one cast and one unbind.
• Unique spell: Bridge of Shadows (5): Pick a wanderer unit within 18”, this unit doubles its move characteristic and can fly for its next movement phase.

She's fine, and might combo well with other wanderer units but otherwise isn't thrilling compared to the other options.

Tier 4:

Sorceress on Cold One (100 points, Leader):

• Basic stats: 6 wounds, 5+ save and 10” move. Can sacrifice an exiles model within 3” to get 2 to her casting rolls. Gets one spell cast and one unbind.
• Unique Spell: Chillwind (5): Pick a visible enemy unit within 18”, roll a number of dice equal to the casting roll, the target suffers a mortal wound for each roll of 6.

100 points isn’t expensive, and if you’re running other Exiles models she might be worth a little more, but her Chillwind spell is just another of the same mechanic that pops up on many wizards.

Damsel of the Lady (100 points – Leader): Unless you’re taking Nobility, don’t think about it.

• Basic stats: 5 wounds, 6+ save, 12” flying move with her Pegasus. Average melee, one spell cast.
• Aura of the Lady: She or another Free People model within 6” heals 1 one in the hero phase.
• Unique Spell: Blessing of the Lady (5): Pick one unit of Free People within 16” to get a 6 up ward save, or 5 up if they are Nobility.

She’s not expensive, but once again if you aren’t taking Free People she’s not any use to you. If you’re running Nobility, a 5+ ward save would be nice, but with her 5 wounds and only a 6+ save she’s not going to last long if your opponent things she’s valuable.

Malekith, The Witch King (640 points – Behemoth, Leader).

• Basic stats: 14 wounds, 4+ save, 14” move (reduces with wounds taken). Halves wounds or mortal wounds. Has good melee attacks and has a 6” shooting attack (roll a dice for each model in a unit within 6” and 6’s cause mortal wounds. Has a command ability that lets Exiles within 20” avoid battleshock. Gets two casts and unbinds.
• Unique spell: Soul Stealer (6): Pick a visible unit within 14”, that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds and Malekith heals one wound for each mortal wound inflicted by this spell.

Malekith’s warscroll looks amazing, but at 640 points I don’t see him being taken in any mixed order lists.

[Aezeal]

Hmm Teclis and Gelt seem nice. They are more expensive than a loremaster though and I wonder where those points would be better placed, in more Sylvaneth troops or in those wizards?

[MidasKiss]

18 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Hmm Teclis and Gelt seem nice. They are more expensive than a loremaster though and I wonder where those points would be better placed, in more Sylvaneth troops or in those wizards?

The points stand out as the issue for most of the compendium stuff. 

In relation to alternatives when considering something's cost, I guess i'll have to make the decision of making this tier list fully based around Gnarlroot or more general. At the moment I feel like it's pretty general for a mixed Order list or Sylvaneth Gnarlroot list. For Sylvaneth lists even basic Sylvaneth wizards can be worth much more because of their access to Sylvaneth spells and items...

[Dalk]

9 hours ago, MidasKiss said:

In relation to alternatives when considering something's cost, I guess i'll have to make the decision of making this tier list fully based around Gnarlroot or more general. At the moment I feel like it's pretty general for a mixed Order list or Sylvaneth Gnarlroot list. For Sylvaneth lists even basic Sylvaneth wizards can be worth much more because of their access to Sylvaneth spells and items...

In my humble opinion, an extra treelord ancient or branchwych should also be T1 options. They get the deepwood lore, can cast and unbind an extra spell due to the gnarlroot battalion, benefit from all your sylvaneth synergies and can take artifacts. This makes them much more useful than any of the T2-T4 options.

[MidasKiss]

In my humble opinion, an extra treelord ancient or branchwych should also be T1 options. They get the deepwood lore, can cast and unbind an extra spell due to the gnarlroot battalion, benefit from all your sylvaneth synergies and can take artifacts. This makes them much more useful than any of the T2-T4 options.

Agreed. I forget because I don't have one, but branchwraiths also get the gnarlroot bonus don't they?

That leaves alarielle and Drycha, I feel are tier 2 at the moment?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Aezeal]

There is no reason to take a branchwraith except as formation tax I think.

[Bowlzee]

12 hours ago, Aezeal said:

There is no reason to take a branchwraith except as formation tax I think.

She's a little better defensively, -1 to hit in a wood

[Aezeal]

If you take nothing it won't be hit at all

 

You have a point but it'd never be close to a reason for me to take her.

[rokapoke]

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

You have a point but it'd never be close to a reason for me to take her.

Cool model?

[Aezeal]

The model isn't bad... but nearly all other Sylvaneth models are better.