Let's Talk Collegiate Arcane

[HobbyHammer]

So I now have enough toys to build the War Council Battalion, but priced at 200 points for just the battalion and taking into account you need to allocate 1140 points to just field the models in this battalion (Not to mention it doesn't give you any Battleline, or units for that matter), at this point is it worth it?

I think most people with an Order Alliance army will field something from this faction, mostly Hurricanum or Wildform Battlemage. But in the future can you see this faction being fleshed out with some Battleline units (Apprentices, Units similar to pink horrors or Sisters which have magic use too)

In regards to what we have now though and assuming you field some battle line units from other factions, how would you go about building a list for this faction.. personally I would go

Amber Wizard on Griffin
Hurricanum
Luminark
Battlemage with Wildform (+1 to wound)
Battlemage with Miasma (-1 to hit)
Battlemage with Chain lightning (D3 Mortal Wounds that can bounce)

I would first turn augment Chain Lightning to be able to hit a lot of the enemy line by using Luminark to gain extra 6", I would also augment Miasma to make sure their toughest unit is -1 to hit, probably use Amber Wizard to augment, I would cast Wildform on my Battleline and use Hurricanum to attempt a Mystic shield on something. After this, my biggest tactic would be to get Amber Wizard on the flank and augment him as much as I could to get max range for an Amber Spear. then buff him up and send him in, whilst using Hurricanum and Luminark to shoot them down from range.

Interested to see how others would use this.

 

[Vespan]

I like evry unit in collegiate arcane. The battalion is also intresting, but 200 points seems rather too much.

Hurricanum gives a great +1 to hit buff, so Luminark should be near at the start ofthe battle. It would be also nice to deploy a big unit of elf spearmen/ human milita/ liberators To protect the Hurricanum.

Amber Wizzard on Griffon could deal tons of damage if with full health, so he should carry a Quickilver Potion as a security if an enemy reaches him first.

Luminark of Hysh has a very nice layzer gun, but one 3+/3+ shot is a bit unreliable BUT I recommend adding a Loremaster to your army- his spell gives rerolls of all hit and wound rols for a single MODEL- epic for Luminark or Griffon.

Insted of Chain Lightning consider a Gyran mage who can heal. All your big toys get much weaker if they drop to the second row in the dmg table.

 

The rest of the army should be relatively fast or durable to allow sezing nad holding objectives.

 

[HobbyHammer]

26 minutes ago, Vespan said:

Amber Wizzard on Griffon could deal tons of damage if with full health, so he should carry a Quickilver Potion as a security if an enemy reaches him first.

I think for Order this Artefact is a must if you have any big hitting Monster Hero character.

27 minutes ago, Vespan said:

Luminark of Hysh has a very nice layzer gun, but one 3+/3+ shot is a bit unreliable BUT I recommend adding a Loremaster to your army- his spell gives rerolls of all hit and wound rols for a single MODEL- epic for Luminark or Griffon.

Maybe even for the first turn, buff with Wildform and Hurricane for 2's and 2', wouldn't be able to fit Loremaster in a pitched battle at standard 2000 points as the War Council minimum is 6 Heros. 

28 minutes ago, Vespan said:

Insted of Chain Lightning consider a Gyran mage who can heal. All your big toys get much weaker if they drop to the second row in the dmg table.

And yep, healing D3 wounds is always helpful, just maybe not as helpful in my opinion as a 1st turn chance of hitting multi units. and every turn after that.

 

30 minutes ago, Vespan said:

It would be also nice to deploy a big unit of elf spearmen/ human milita/ liberators To protect the Hurricanum.

I think this formation definitely calls for a lot of chaff units as battle line for some protection.

[Nico]

Wildform thankfully doesn't work in the shooting phase.

Otherwise GW would have sold out of those wizards....

[HobbyHammer]

16 minutes ago, Nico said:

Wildform thankfully doesn't work in the shooting phase.

Otherwise GW would have sold out of those wizards....

Good point, always forget that part

[HobbyHammer]

I would personally take some Knights as my batteline, fast impact units that do well when buffed up, thats what I always take Wildform for

But like I say, it would be interesting to know when and if they do a Battletome for it, what they would do about Battleline units.

[arnoldrew]

3 hours ago, HobbyHammer said:

I think for Order this Artefact is a must if you have any big hitting Monster Hero character.

Maybe even for the first turn, buff with Wildform and Hurricane for 2's and 2', wouldn't be able to fit Loremaster in a pitched battle at standard 2000 points as the War Council minimum is 6 Heros. 

And yep, healing D3 wounds is always helpful, just maybe not as helpful in my opinion as a 1st turn chance of hitting multi units. and every turn after that.

 

I think this formation definitely calls for a lot of chaff units as battle line for some protection.

Keep in mind that the Luminark and Hurricanum don't HAVE to be leaders if you're okay with giving up some attacks and spells. I wouldn't recommend it, but it IS and option.

[Paul Conti]

Collegiate Arcane is really strong. I need to do more playtesting, but I'm pretty confident that the Liminark is under-costed. 240 is a steal for comparable power to a Trebuchet (220 points), a wizard, the blessing w/o casting, +1 to unbind, and an 11-wound hero to sit on objectives.

The Hurricanum is really good too, but I thibk fairly costed.

The swiss army wizard is also fantastic. 100 points for a wide selection of spells - DONE. 

The only one Im hesitant on is the Amber Wizard on Griffon. It's a little expensive, only has a 5+ save, and its spell is a little lackluster.

The battalion is really strong. I think the biggest problem is how to actually field it and still have an effective force on the battlefield. You're looking at over 1300 poi ts just at the minimum. That doesnt leave a lot of room to round out a force. I think its probably fun, but totally not competitive.

[HobbyHammer]

22 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Keep in mind that the Luminark and Hurricanum don't HAVE to be leaders if you're okay with giving up some attacks and spells. I wouldn't recommend it, but it IS and option.

Yer I think not having the wizards on the chariots would really mean that the battalion is very very useless. Need as many wizards as possible to ensure range and casting needed spells. 

[HobbyHammer]

9 minutes ago, Paul Conti said:

Collegiate Arcane is really strong. I need to do more playtesting, but I'm pretty confident that the Liminark is under-costed. 240 is a steal for comparable power to a Trebuchet (220 points), a wizard, the blessing w/o casting, +1 to unbind, and an 11-wound hero to sit on objectives.

The Hurricanum is really good too, but I thibk fairly costed.

The swiss army wizard is also fantastic. 100 points for a wide selection of spells - DONE. 

The only one Im hesitant on is the Amber Wizard on Griffon. It's a little expensive, only has a 5+ save, and its spell is a little lackluster.

The battalion is really strong. I think the biggest problem is how to actually field it and still have an effective force on the battlefield. You're looking at over 1300 poi ts just at the minimum. That doesnt leave a lot of room to round out a force. I think its probably fun, but totally not competitive.

I currently run a General on Griffin and the Griffin itself is the main strength. 13 wounds and can do serious damage. With good positioning and a little bit of luck the Amber Wizard is an absolute beat stick. 

[MrCharisma]

It's an interesting list, however; I imagine it could be incredibly hard to win objectives. I agree with your initial approach and would suggest Life Surge instead of Miasma 

 

[HobbyHammer]

Life Surge is a great option too! The Battlemage Wizard is so versitile, I am currently modelling an option for each Lore, currently have 4! Wildform, Miasma, Chain Lightening and Fireball.

[Paul Conti]

Has anyone ever tried a list stacking saves?

Damsel

Luminark

Lifesurge

6+ ×3

Plus a mystic shield.

Make something 3+ with all those saves? Should save around 80% of damage 

[Primez]

 

It's might have already been said but Collegiate Arcane, in my opinion is the best plug in and support faction in Order. Other than the plus one to cast and plus one to unbind the buffs it gives off are order wide. The battlemage with 8 spells to pick from are great.  A good range of support spells which you can change game to game. 

 

The only downside i would say is there is no really big heavy hitting spell that can consistently put out a lot of mortal wounds. Then again these spells are normally reserved for special characters or high point models eg, Arkhan with Curse of years, lord of change with gateway and so on. 

[MrCharisma]

Has anybody had any experience running this battalion formation?

I might be entering a 2,500pt tourament soon and I'm thinking of running a Collegiate Arcane list (plus some type of battalion). 

I'll have a dirty trick up my sleeve with a Incarnate Elemental of Fire/Wrath to summon onto the battlefield in the first turn. 

[Nico]

Quote

I'll have a dirty trick up my sleeve with a Incarnate Elemental of Fire/Wrath to summon onto the battlefield in the first turn. 

I looked at this recently and discovered that oddly, the wizards don't actually pick up the keywords like Bright and Amber that you would expect them to. Thus, strictly this wouldn't work, which is a shame. You could email the TO and ask them to approve this point (because this is plainly an oversight). There's not enough summoning at the game at the moment sadly.

[MrCharisma]

5 minutes ago, Nico said:

I looked at this recently and discovered that oddly, the wizards don't actually pick up the keywords like Bright and Amber that you would expect them..

I'd argue that the Battlemage specialisation allows me to do it (keyword or no keyword). I'll check with the TO, though a Bright Wizard specialisation with consistent language in the current warscroll should keep this legal. 

[Nico]

The issue is that the requirements in the spell are written in bold. There's also the practical point of how are you planning to roll an 11 to cast the spell? I've thought about doing it for an Ironjawz army with the Weirdnob Shaman (who can get +2 to cast), but it's probably still a very bad plan, but hilarious if it worked. One possible way to make Ironjawz more varied for you Chris @Chris Tomlin

[HobbyHammer]

36 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

Has anybody had any experience running this battalion formation?

I might be entering a 2,500pt tourament soon and I'm thinking of running a Collegiate Arcane list (plus some type of battalion). 

I'll have a dirty trick up my sleeve with a Incarnate Elemental of Fire/Wrath to summon onto the battlefield in the first turn. 

Currently running this as my Base for all games at moment. Not with the summoning part but, I run the War Council and in fact I will be running it at SCGT. I am not one for competing and don't aim for top tables etc.

But.. I have found I am winning most games, not that the list is powerful, it is just so rare on the scene that people don't really know how to deal with it. I use some Fyreslayer bodyguard to protect as they undertake their shenanigans. 

[HobbyHammer]

2 minutes ago, Nico said:

how are you planning to roll an 11 to cast the spell?

War Council Battalion allows you to sacrifice other Mages spells to add +1 to cast, that with the Hurricanum and Arcane scenery could effectively mean you could use one Hero phase to cast on a 4+ to pretty much guarantee getting spell off. 

[MrCharisma]

Just now, HobbyHammer said:

But.. I have found I am winning most games, not that the list is powerful, it is just so rare on the scene that people don't really know how to deal with it. I use some Fyreslayer bodyguard to protect as they undertake their shenanigans. 

Interesting! I'd love to see your list (even in a private PM, I'm in Australia and won't be going to SCGT). I've build my list using Free Guild Guard and an additional Hurricanum

[MrCharisma]

3 minutes ago, HobbyHammer said:

War Council Battalion allows you to sacrifice other Mages spells to add +1 to cast, that with the Hurricanum and Arcane scenery could effectively mean you could use one Hero phase to cast on a 4+ to pretty much guarantee getting spell off. 

...and +6" range per wizard involved, meaning i could summon it almost anywhere 

[HobbyHammer]

I normally run with Life Mage, Beast Mage and Shadow Mage

[HobbyHammer]

2 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

...and +6" range per wizard involved, meaning i could summon it almost anywhere 

I think it would still limit to whatever the Incarnates war scroll says in terms of range

[Aezeal]

On 23-9-2016 at 3:06 PM, HobbyHammer said:

So I now have enough toys to build the War Council Battalion, but priced at 200 points for just the battalion and taking into account you need to allocate 1140 points to just field the models in this battalion (Not to mention it doesn't give you any Battleline, or units for that matter), at this point is it worth it?

I think most people with an Order Alliance army will field something from this faction, mostly Hurricanum or Wildform Battlemage. But in the future can you see this faction being fleshed out with some Battleline units (Apprentices, Units similar to pink horrors or Sisters which have magic use too)

In regards to what we have now though and assuming you field some battle line units from other factions, how would you go about building a list for this faction.. personally I would go

Amber Wizard on Griffin
Hurricanum
Luminark
Battlemage with Wildform (+1 to wound)
Battlemage with Miasma (-1 to hit)
Battlemage with Chain lightning (D3 Mortal Wounds that can bounce)

I would first turn augment Chain Lightning to be able to hit a lot of the enemy line by using Luminark to gain extra 6", I would also augment Miasma to make sure their toughest unit is -1 to hit, probably use Amber Wizard to augment, I would cast Wildform on my Battleline and use Hurricanum to attempt a Mystic shield on something. After this, my biggest tactic would be to get Amber Wizard on the flank and augment him as much as I could to get max range for an Amber Spear. then buff him up and send him in, whilst using Hurricanum and Luminark to shoot them down from range.

Interested to see how others would use this.

 

I cannot see the faction being fleshed out. You should use it with other freeguild armies or order armies. This is one of those factions that is PART of an army, not a complete well rounded army. And that battalion ability is pretty worthless, not worth much points.