Escalation Battleplan vs special deployment

[Vespan]

Hello!

I have some doubts regarding special deplyment units in Escalation Battleplan.  The mission tells you to divide your number of units to 3 even groups and the first one starts the game on the battlefield, while rest arrive later in the game from reserves. It is a very cool mission. Probably the most interesting in the strategic aspect from General's Handbook. But how should I treat units with special deployment like Grot Fanatics? Normally When I deploy them I must set the maside and tell that they are hiding in one of my units (and secretly note in which one). 

So.. how would my situation look like in example of this army:

1. Moonclan Grot Warboss

2. Moonclan Grot Shaman

3. 40 Moonclan grots

4. 40 Moonclan grots

5. 2 Fanatics

6. 2 Fanatics

7. Cave Squigs

8. 2 squig herders

9. 2 squig herders

10. 3 Fellwater Troggoths

There are 10 units so it would be groups of 4+4+2. Let's say I deploy one unit of moonclan grots, one unit of fanatics, shaman and warboss on the table. What would happen with the second unit of fanatics? They will have to arrive from the reserves as a regular unit?

What about other units, like Cameleon Skinks from Seraphon army or Frostbrow Hunter from Beastclaw Riders.

To me it would seem that if a unit want to use his special deployment he will have to be one of these in the first group, and the rest will arrive later from the table edge....

What do You think?

 

[Nico]

Yeah - this is a real mess.

I had a debate with Mark Wildman over whether Fanatics count as a drop or not or whether just folded in with host unit - maintaining secrecy (haven't cross referenced things like Runesmiter or Warp Grinder yet). It seems a bit odd if they count as two drops as they go down together. For the record I was offering to let Mark reduce his number of drops (helping him) and Mark was saying that he didn't play it that way.

The bigger problem is single drop formations that have special deployment rules - I would suggest applying the numerical constraint to the number of units per wave - but also allow them to deploy using the special rule - fudging it if necessary e.g. Some formations say all the units deploy in your first movement phase - so the movement phase of each unit's wave would be when you would deploy them (so they could split into 2 waves if necessary).

Letting the Skyborne Slayers or Sylvaneth sidestep the deployment rules completely and drop the whole army first turn would be broken.

[Double Misfire]

Common sense would dictate that the fanatics count as one of your units and must be deployed inside a unit that's part of the same wave. However if you wanted to be a RAW cheesemaster you could argue that the fanatics' warscroll states that they can hide inside a unit of moonclan grots "instead of setting up normally", setting up normally in the Escalation battleplan means coming on as part of one of the three waves, so technically I suppose you could run a unit of fanatics as part of you third wave, and then "set them up" inside a unit already on the board - the only thing stopping you would be sportsmanship points.

[Andreas]

Could someone who attended Warlords explain how this scenario was played at that event regarding special deployments, deployment of warscrolls battalion with or without special deployments etc..

It feels like this scenario need a lot of player agreements and their rulings could maybe give some directions.

[Vespan]

My common sense tells me, that formations or special deployment battalions should be broken into groups normally, but allow them their special setup. For example in the battalion of cameleon skinks and ripperdactyls, some units will arrive in one turn, and the rest in subsequent. As for fanatics I'd say they should be allowed to arrive hidden but ony if they hide in one of units that arrive in the same wave.

[Andreas]

Another question, when have you deployed the battalion and benefits from its rules? Let's say it gives you immune to battleshock and the units are coming in during three turns. Are the first wave immune or is it first when you have deployed the whole formation on turn 3?

Just to add, lets say you are immune as long as X is alive, what happens if X turns up on turn 3.

[Nico]

The units benefit from the buffs unless they require a model, e.g. A hero, to be present on the board.

[Vespan]

It it says that X must be alife, the bonuss should work. Beeing in reserve doesn't make him dead. Each case would depend on wording of battalion rule I gues.

[Marc Wilson]

3 hours ago, Nico said:

Yeah - this is a real mess.

I'm with you about keeping to unit divison but allowing deployment position rules (but then again I would). Skybourne slayers is another step more complex as they have a bubble to deploy in - how do you rule that? Mark the centre of the original deployment with a token?

[Nico]

Sounds like a good compromise Marc.

Vespan - Usually if you need a model to be alive, it will say within a distance - so if not on table that is not working yet. Otherwise since they clarified that command abilities etc cannot be used from the celestial realm I would say that even if it is not dependent on distance, the triggering model must still be on the table for you to get the buff.

Deep striking 2/3 of your army into 1/3 of theirs can still be brutal.

[Vespan]

@Nico You have a point with the traits.

As for incomming reserves I'd allow them to arrive using their special rules or from table edge. But I gues each big event and local club will have own clarification on that or just forgo this mission in the tournaments (but that would be a shame- it is a really cool mission).

[fiZZycoke]

How does the clan skyre formation work with this and the tunneling engine coven? 

[Nico]

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you are still able to deploy position-wise as per the formation, but number of units-wise, you have to follow the Battleplan. So if you have 10 drops, you would be deploying 4, 4, 2, with Battleline first.

Let's say you had 3 units of Battleline Stormfiends 5 Warpfire Throwers and two Warp Grinders. You could deploy the 3 Stormfiends Units and one Warp Grinder as wave one off the board. Let's assume that two of the Stormfiends are in the same Coven as the Warp Grinder.

Turn one, you can tunnel up the Warpgrinder and pop out the two units of Stormfiends from the same Coven. The other unit of Stormfiends is stuck.

Your turn two, you can deploy the (say) 2 Warpfire Throwers from the first Coven (the one with the Warpgrinder already on the table). They would have to go next to that Warpgrinder (so very risky if your Warpgrinder dies). This is a bit of a stretch of the wording of the formation rule which requires everything at once, but seems reasonable to reconcile it with the battleplan.

You're other two units in Wave 2 could be the second Warpgrinder and another Warpfire Thrower from the same second Coven. Once this Warpgrinder pops up, both this Warpfire Thrower and the Unit of Stormfiends from Wave One that couldn't pop up earlier could appear near it.

  

 

[BaldoBeardo]

That's exactly how I'd see it. There's a difference between "set up" and "on the board", and this interpretation follows all wordings.

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