Free Unleash Hell from Warscrolls - how the Hell does it work?

[Zeblasky]

EDIT: Please sort this thread By Date so you would not get lost in the discussion!

So, Sisters of the Watch and Hadngunners overwatch got changed into this new rule for some reason. And this makes all of it very confusing.

The rule goes like this, kinda simular to the core batalion ability:
‘If an enemy unit finishes a charge move within 3" of this unit, this unit can receive the Unleash Hell command without the command being issued and without a command point being spent.’

Now, this raises some questions, besides the obvious "why Sisters went up 20 when they were nerfed at the same time?". Primarily though:

1) Can you use multiple free Unleash Hell(s) from different units in the same phase? Or can you use Unleash Hell Command Ability after using a free overwatch on a different unit?

2) Can you use both free and the usual Unleash Hell on the same unit in the same phase?

Because honestly, I have no idea, as rules are quite unclear on this. The most logical to think would be that this "free" Unleash Hell does not count as CA at all and does not conflict with the usual Unleash Hell. Otherwise, this would seem to be an incredibly stupid nerf to units that before were heavily balanced around the free counter charge overwatch (and without -1 to hit as well).

P.S. It is also quite ironic, that units without Warscroll overwatch benefit the most from Unleash Hell, while for Handgunners and SotW Unleash Hell CA has more of cumulative effect.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Zeblasky

[schwabbele]

Just now, Zeblasky said:

Oh god, lol, this... is also a possibility. There is no more "once per turn" restriction in place.

Huh... now this may explain why sisters went up 20 points...

‘If an enemy unit finishes a charge move within 3" of this unit, this unit can receive the Unleash Hell command without the command being issued and without a command point being spent.’

I think the reference to Unleash Hell is here just because they are lazy to write it again in other words.

So if for eg 2 units charge, sister can do 2 times and you could still issue the command on another unit

But tbh I think the rules writer had a fat line of coke or something because it is actually really really badly written.

[Zeblasky]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I think the intent is for a single one, which isn't counted towards the maximum of 1 otherwise. It'll take a FAQ to be sure, but it fits how the previous warscroll worked and simply feels right.

It could be argued in a number of different ways, but relying on the extremes would be setting yourself up for disappointment in the FAQ.

I agree about the intent here, but intent is a very flickle thing. Literally the next post after you thinks otherwise. So, while at friendly games you can come to the compromise, understanding rules RAW is important for now, until we get FAQ on this issue. And RAW it seems that Wascroll Unleash Hell is "broken" twice.

 

4 hours ago, Marcvs said:

. Please note that the wording is the same as the Slayers effect from core battalion, which, being in the core rules cannot benefit from the hierarchical argument (warscrolls > core rules).

Sure, the wording is the same, and there is logic behind such a statement. The problem, it's just a conjecture and RAW does not stop warscroll rule from triggering over and over again, unlike the batalion rule. Warscroll says that you receive unleash hell under those conditions, so sure, you just receive it over and over. I am hoping though that FAQ will come soon.

[Warfiend]

21 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Seems fairly straight forward. The FAQ has changed the warscroll so that they can now issue the Unleash Hell command free. But the core rule 6.1 says that a unit cannot receive a command more than once per phase, so you just get to use it once. And you can’t use it again on another unit in the same phase, even if you spend a CA.

Not what you wanted to hear I imagine, but they are the rules as written

This is incorrect.

The way it's described means you can use unleash hell multiple times in a single turn (since the rules state you can only issue the command once, and the warscroll states it doesn't count as being issued as well as costing no CP). But you can't use it twice on the same unit because a unit can only receive it once a turn.

If you have two units or sisters standing next to each other with another ranged unit behind them within 9". And an enemy unit ends their charge within range 3" of both sister units and within 9" of the third ranged unit it means you can use a free Unleash hell on both the sisters without spending any CP and choose to spend one CP to issue Unleash Hell on the third unit for a grand total of 3x Unleash hell in a single phase.

The angy orruks in this example would be absolutely destroyed if they would attempt this charge:

TLDR:
1 - Yes, Yes
2 - No

Edited July 3, 2021 by Warfiend