Quick questions about the AoS rules

[Gurgamel]

Hello,

Did my first friendly battle and alot of questions came forth. Se list below.

1. What happens if a charge roll fails?
2. What is the retreat distance?
3.  Possible to leav gaps inbetween models (frontline) for another missle unit behind to shoot trough (since it says can only shoot what they see, and specefik says thay can se through friendly models of same unit)?
4. Possible to remove slain models so that i leav melee combat (3inches away)?
5. Can a unit of many models split like a long snake, line or circle as long as they are within "1" of another?
6. Understand that in combat phase every1 that has an engaged unit can fight (even the one whos turn it is not) is it the same with ranged, spells and comand points?
7. When target a machin that is operated by crew, can tha attcker choose wich one to attack (crew or cannon for exampel)?
8. If a machine has lost all of its crew by an attacking melee unit rendering the machine useless (cannon cant shoot for exampel) is one still locked in combat with it and has to either retret from it or destroy it wholy?
9. Who rolls the damage dice (attacker or attacked)?
10. Is it the attacks or the damage that determine the number of wounds afflicting the enemey unit? For exampel a hero that only has one attack but deals 3 damage, he attacks a unit of 10 models. The attack succeeds and one attack inflicts 3 wounds but since its only one attack does that mean one modell takes 3 damage or the unit takes 3 wounds? 
11. Is it possible to Pile In to pull more enemy units into combat or from them? For exampel Pile in to force enemy unit close by so that it can not charge or chase another target, even though this side unit was the the intended charged unit? Also the same but away from enemy units to not have them deal any damage in combat phase.

Thanks in advance
Gurgamel

[jamie.white]

1) You don't charge - you move onto the next unit . 

2) a retreat is a normal move , so  move the unit's movement characteristic , if you want to run as well roll a d6

3) models need to be within 1inch of each other . 

4) No

5) yes - but if one of the models is slain in this line  , all of the models that are over 1 inch away from each other die  after the battleshock phase.

6) Not sure what you mean here .  - 

7) Generally now Crew and Machinery are classed as the unit so you don't pick off the crew - check the war scrolls for clarity though 

8 ) see above

9) Attacker

10) You inflict wounds on the unit , save the wounds , then damage is applied to the entire unit , if you inflict 10 damage on a unit of 10 models that have one wound each they all die , 

11) You can pile in to another unit, but remember if you do , that unit will get to attack you in that combat phase . 

 

I think that's all right - although I haven't played since March last year ! happy to be corrected lol 

 

[Gurgamel]

1. Ok, so even if it fails i dont move the dice number forward? 
1.5. For a charge to be succcesfull i have to finish within halv an inch, but can i choose to stay 2 away if i have melee range 2?
2.  Roger roger
3.  Can i shoot misile weapons through another friendly or enemy unit to hit a unit behind?
4.  Not even possible to remove slayed models so i dont fight two enemy units engaged with me and only one?
5. But as the owner of the unit i can just choose the models at the end right? Or is there a way for an enemy to force split it?
6. During a players turn in combat phase enemy units engaged in battle are given the chance to retalite, is it the same for shooting phase etc?
7. So we can discusse the same unit if possible can you look at the dwarven cannon? They dont share the same wounds or save etc but are part of same unit. Says no where on warscrolls who dies first.
8.  Follow above exampel, If crew dies first cannon has no melee attacks, but since the model is "alive" am i still stuck in combat with it? Forcing me to attack uselss model/unit leaving me venerable for achers.
9.Roger roger
10. Roger roger, think i found video showing how its done.
11. Roger 1/2, can i pile away from enemy unit? 

[GrimDork]

1. Yes, if you fail a charge you don't move at all. The first model moved in a charging unit must finish with 0.5". The rest of the models could stay 2" away.

3. Yes

4. It would be possible to remove slain models so that a second unit that hasn't already attacked is no longer in range (or within 3"). A single unit's attacks are considered to be simultaneous, so a unit with multiple profiles gets to attack with everything.

5. Normally you pick which models are removed as slain but some models have abilities that can target an individual model, rather than unit (eg. Kraken Eater Mega gargants "stuff em in me net" ability). They could remove a model from the middle of a snaked out unit meaning in the battle shock phase coherency is broken and one half of the line would be removed (you would pick which half). Just something to be aware of in case you get caught out.

6. No, the alternating choose a unit to attack only happens in the combat phase. You can't cast spells or shoot etc in the other players hero or shooting phase.

7 & 8. Will have to check

11. With pile in moves you have to finish the move at least as close to the nearest enemy model so you cannot pile away from an enemy unit. You don't have to pile in so you could choose not to move.

[GrimDork]

Just had a look at the warscroll...

7 & 8. So with the Dwarf Cannon you mentioned, it would up to the controlling player where wounds would be allocated. This could leave the cannon with no crew or the crew with no cannon to fire depending on how you allocate wounds. If you are engaged with a cannon with no crew left, you would have to finish it off or retreat to move away from it.

[Gecktron]

1 hour ago, GrimDork said:

Just had a look at the warscroll...

7 & 8. So with the Dwarf Cannon you mentioned, it would up to the controlling player where wounds would be allocated. This could leave the cannon with no crew or the crew with no cannon to fire depending on how you allocate wounds. If you are engaged with a cannon with no crew left, you would have to finish it off or retreat to move away from it.

The Dwarf Cannon still uses the old first Edition wording where Crew and Cannon were two different units that can move and act independently. An enemy can for example just target the Crew and leave the Machine without Operator. They would still be locked in combat, but the Cannon would be unable to do anything. Modern warmachines fixed that by removing the crew alltogether in Game Terms (See Stormcast Ballista or Cities of Sigmar Helblaster)

[GrimDork]

Thanks, hadn’t spotted that difference.

[Beliman]

On 3/18/2021 at 9:50 PM, Gurgamel said:

4.  Not even possible to remove slayed models so i dont fight two enemy units engaged with me and only one?

When you allocate wounds to your models, you can allocate all of them to your models that are within 3" of the enemy. Remember that you will lose the option to fight back if you didn't charge (because pile in gives you a "free" 3" move), but it could be good if your unit is a ranged specialist that want to focus another enemy unit and you don't have any ability to fall back and shoot in your turn (btw, with double turn, you are giving a free 3" charge to your oponent!!).  

Ex.:

Spoiler

Red cavalry charged your purple dudes and did a total of 4 wounds. You allocate wounds to your models that are within 3" of the enemy. You can't activate them to fight in the same fight phase (nor pile in if you didn't charge), but you will be ready to move and shoot with them in your next turn.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Beliman
Grammar and 3" Pile In

[Gurgamel]

29 minutes ago, Beliman said:

When you allocate wounds to your models, you can allocate all of them to your models that are within 3" of the enemy. Remember that you will lose the option to fight back if you didn't charge (because pile in gives you a "free" 6" move), but it could be good if your unit is a ranged specialist that want to focus another enemy unit and you don't have any ability to fall back and shoot in your turn (btw, with double turn, you are giving a free 3" charge to your oponent!!).  

Ex.:

  Hide contents

Red cavalry charged your purple dudes and did a total of 4 wounds. You allocate wounds to your models that are within 3" of the enemy. You can't have activate them to fight in the same fight phase (nor pile in if you didn't charge), but you will be ready to move and shoot with them in your next turn.

 

Great image, this is how i would have interpreted the rules.

 

 

On 3/18/2021 at 5:33 PM, jamie.white said:

4) No

 

On 3/19/2021 at 10:19 AM, GrimDork said:

4. It would be possible to remove slain models so that a second unit that hasn't already attacked is no longer in range (or within 3"). A single unit's attacks are considered to be simultaneous, so a unit with multiple profiles gets to attack with everything.

 

But unless i missunderstand the answers above, i have three different answers.

[GrimDork]

It really depends on the situation. If a unit with multiple profiles (cavalry for example where they have riders & mounts) attacks, it attacks with all of it’s different profiles before any slain models are removed, meaning the unit could not be prevented from using all of its attacks by models no longer being in range. You couldn’t remove models after the riders attack and then say the mounts aren’t in range to attack. Even tho you roll them separately, these attacks are considered to happen simultaneously.

If tho, a unit is in combat with 2 different units, it would be possible to remove models so the second unit can’t attack.

Apologies for my dodgy visual aid 😂

AAAAAAA

B

B

B

B

B

CCCCCC

Unit A attacks unit B and kills 2 models, player removes models closest to unit C, meaning unit C is no longer within 3” and therefore cannot attack (unless unit C charged that turn, in which case they could still pile in 3” which might bring them into range to make their attacks).

Edited March 23, 2021 by GrimDork