AoS 2 - Misthåvn (Broken Realms: Morathi) Discussion

[Aelfric]

5 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

Coked up Dragon

As I understand it, the narcotic is taken in the Hero phase, but the deepstrike happens in the Movement phase so he couldn't be coked up until the turn after.  Not particularly practical.

[Lord of the Isle]

8 hours ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

So I'm still hoping they eventually rectify the spell list and maybe a battalion, and I'm intrigued by the Flanking Forces mechanic.  I've seen some talk of flanking options, Coked up Dragon, Dark Riders, Chariots, and the normal Shadow Aelves.  But I'm curious what people are thinking to anchor the non flanking half?  Looks like the High Aelves don't want anything to do with Misthavn so Phoenix Guard don't count, so is the next best option Freeguild Greatswords and a General?  Other thoughts?

Also in most general lists I see Drakespawn Knights and Chariots discouraged.  Does flanking open them up, or are the Horse versions still always the better choice?  

I’m going for General & Greatswords, lots of Freeguild and some Darkling infantry including execs as ‘main army’. Feels very Misthavny.

And yes I am taking the rules as an excuse to bring Drakespawn Knights as well as Dark Riders out of retirement 

[MetaphoricDragon]

So my LGS mostly played at either 1000 or 1250 most times, so I've been trying to plot out a list to do well at 1000 and expandable to 1250.  Is it ridiculous to try and squeeze a dragon in to a 1000 point list?

[Crashnarf]

13 hours ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

So my LGS mostly played at either 1000 or 1250 most times, so I've been trying to plot out a list to do well at 1000 and expandable to 1250.  Is it ridiculous to try and squeeze a dragon in to a 1000 point list?

Not it's not ridiculous. A dragon can be very useful and resilient at 1000pts. He can be your hammer or your anvil, he is fast and self sufficient.

Howewer, it will cost you many points, so he has to be use carefully, a dragon is not so resistant and you will have less figs on the board.

I personnaly love to use the sorceress on black dragon, even if she is very fragile: she has good spells, good apps and she can hit hard. In Anvilgard or Hammerhal, it is perfect.

The only point is that, fort the cost of one dragon, I can have a celestant prime...and that is (for me) a must, especially in Hammerhal.

[MetaphoricDragon]

23 minutes ago, Crashnarf said:

Not it's not ridiculous. A dragon can be very useful and resilient at 1000pts. He can be your hammer or your anvil, he is fast and self sufficient.

Howewer, it will cost you many points, so he has to be use carefully, a dragon is not so resistant and you will have less figs on the board.

I personnaly love to use the sorceress on black dragon, even if she is very fragile: she has good spells, good apps and she can hit hard. In Anvilgard or Hammerhal, it is perfect.

The only point is that, fort the cost of one dragon, I can have a celestant prime...and that is (for me) a must, especially in Hammerhal.

Unfortunately,  Misthavn won't let me flank with a Celestant Prime.  I'd like to think using the dragon as a flanking option helps protect its fragility some.  But I'm having trouble figuring out my best Anvil options if I were to use the dragon and Ideally another flanking unit as the Hammers.

[Crashnarf]

33 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

Unfortunately,  Misthavn won't let me flank with a Celestant Prime.  I'd like to think using the dragon as a flanking option helps protect its fragility some.  But I'm having trouble figuring out my best Anvil options if I were to use the dragon and Ideally another flanking unit as the Hammers.

Well, the best anvil we have is (I think) the ironbreakers, they are cheap for what they doand with a prayer of a runelord, they have the 6+fnp.

You have the freeguil guards to, more fragile but cheaper, so you can have a horde.

BUT, another cool anvil could be the Drakespawn Knights, 2pv each, 3+save, mobile anvil: why not? (and with your dragon they can become more punchy if you need)

Edited November 20, 2020 by Crashnarf

[Crashnarf]

I've just received my (french) Broken Realm book and I already have a question: I don't see the specific magic in the  Misthåv's page...I have the artefacts, the narcotics, but I see no magie.

Is it a bug or else?

(Har Kuron has his own magic for exemple)

[Boar]

2 hours ago, Crashnarf said:

I've just received my (french) Broken Realm book and I already have a question: I don't see the specific magic in the  Misthåv's page...I have the artefacts, the narcotics, but I see no magie.

Is it a bug or else?

(Har Kuron has his own magic for exemple)

Idolators (S2D) don't have artifacts, and Misthavn doesn't have spells - second especially strange with trait giving your wizard additional cast. Looks like bug on the face of it.

[Kyriakin]

On 11/26/2020 at 2:20 AM, Boar said:

Idolators (S2D) don't have artifacts, and Misthavn doesn't have spells - second especially strange with trait giving your wizard additional cast. Looks like bug on the face of it.

A typo is a bug.

What kind of poor QC would lead to a million pound company printing a book with an entire spell lore missing?

I think they ran out of space, and were like "****** it"

 

[Boar]

23 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

A typo is a bug.

What kind of poor QC would lead to a million pound company printing a book with an entire spell lore missing?

I think they ran out of space, and were like "****** it"

 

Maybe, or they just forgot. Either way look how long we sometimes wait for simplest of rules FAQ/updates. It's not like they need to change rules logic and underlying program like in computer games. To me it looks like corporate that doesn't want to assign enough resources, there is just few guys working on it AFAIK.

[Kyriakin]

To be honest, I am more annoyed about losing the generic Cities abilities. I mean, why? Was this city going to be destroying everyone if retinues, adjutants and maxed-out Endless Spells were retained?

The unique abilities are so restricted that I think this would still be almost the worst city if generic CoS abilities and there was a Anvilgard-type spell lore.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Kyriakin

[MetaphoricDragon]

35 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

To be honest, I am more annoyed about losing the generic Cities abilities. I mean, why? Was this city going to be destroying everyone if retinues, adjutants and maxed-out Endless Spells were retained?

The unique abilities are so restricted that I think this would still be almost the worst city if generic CoS abilities and there was a Anvilgard-type spell lore.

As far as I know, Misthavn did not lose the generic cities abilities?  Only Har Kuron did that....

[MetaphoricDragon]

For discussions sake, this is what I'm eyeing for a 1000 point list.  Seems 1000-1250 is the common points value played at LGS, not sure where to take it up to 1250 so open to ideas there.  My first thought is always Add Shadow Warriors but  what to do with what remains is awkward.  It focuses on dark elves because that is what I happen to have without racking up a lot extra in freeguild or dwarf purchases.

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
- City: Misthavn

LEADERS
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Shadowsilk Armour
- Misthavn Narcotic: Sawfang Dust (not dead set on this one)
Sorceress (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowlord

UNITS
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (210)
20 x Black Guard (260) - City Role: Honoured Retinue
10 x Bleakswords (90)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)

TOTAL: 1000/1000 WOUNDS: 67

[Kyriakin]

21 hours ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

For discussions sake, this is what I'm eyeing for a 1000 point list.  Seems 1000-1250 is the common points value played at LGS, not sure where to take it up to 1250 so open to ideas there.  My first thought is always Add Shadow Warriors but  what to do with what remains is awkward.  It focuses on dark elves because that is what I happen to have without racking up a lot extra in freeguild or dwarf purchases.

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
- City: Misthavn

LEADERS
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Shadowsilk Armour
- Misthavn Narcotic: Sawfang Dust (not dead set on this one)
Sorceress (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowlord

UNITS
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (210)
20 x Black Guard (260) - City Role: Honoured Retinue
10 x Bleakswords (90)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)

TOTAL: 1000/1000 WOUNDS: 67

Making the Shadowlord a slow and fragile foot Sorceress means that it might be difficult for her to get in a good position for shadowstriking the Dragon/chariots nearby.

Also, the chariots are all about the shooting and have a 30-inch threat range for that, so deepstriking and moving them D6 for the charge isn't going to get much done. Maybe say they are Drakespawn Chariots instead? Or maybe you were only planning to Shadowstrike with the dragon, and just using basic Underhanded Tactics for the Scourgerunner Chariots.

The best use of the Shadowstrike that I can see is ten Drakespawn Knights coming in with the DLoBD, and making the 8-D6 charge (with muscican, obviously). if you plan to do it many times (i.e. multiple waves of Knights) make him a Shadowlord, and if you plan to do it just once take the extra Command Point instead for his buffing Command Ability on that Drakespawn Knight charge. Then he can have the 6+ shrug instead.

It's all very "meh" though.

Shadowstrikng 40 Crossbow Corsairs or 40 Cutlass Corsairs (with Fleetmaster) could have been fun, but oh well...

PS: Warhammer Weekly said that Misthavn didn't get basic CoS traits. Do we have a definitive answer on this? I don't have the book yet.

(He says it around 2:24:55)

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Kyriakin

[MetaphoricDragon]

2 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

Making the Shadowlord a slow and fragile foot Sorceress means that it might be difficult for her to get in a good position for shadowstriking the Dragon/chariots nearby.

I hope you will forgive a newbie for a potentially dumb question regarding command abilities and semantics.  Shadowstrike says you have to be wholly within 12 of "A" hero.  So the way I was reading it was that it didn't need to specifically be "this" hero, so as long as they were deepstriking near a hero unit it would work.  However, I may have been too optimistic there?

Making the Dragon the general makes it pretty awkward on battlelines.

Quote

Also, the chariots are all about the shooting and have a 30-inch threat range for that, so deepstriking and moving them D6 for the charge isn't going to get much done. Maybe say they are Drakespawn Chariots instead? Or maybe you were only planning to Shadowstrike with the dragon, and just using basic Underhanded Tactics for the Scourgerunner Chariots.

The best use of the Shadowstrike that I can see is ten Drakespawn Knights coming in with the DLoBD, and making the 8-D6 charge (with muscican, obviously). if you plan to do it many times (i.e. multiple waves of Knights) make him a Shadowlord, and if you plan to do it just once take the extra Command Point instead for his buffing Command Ability on that Drakespawn Knight charge. Then he can have the 6+ shrug instead.

For combat, you are probably right on the drakespawn.  However, yeah, nothing says that shadowstrike charges are the only use of Underhanded Tactics, and the Scourgerunners could also be used for flanking objectives.  Also only 2 of the 3 chariots I have are build to be able to convert to Colds Ones, so some of that was a practical over gameplay decision.  

Going up to 1250 will probably be +10 Shadow Warriors +5 Knights

Quote

Shadowstrikng 40 Crossbow Corsairs or 40 Cutlass Corsairs (with Fleetmaster) could have been fun, but oh well...

There might still be something to shadow striking even 10 cutlass corsairs with fleetmaster. That is still 40 attacks popping out of nowhere.  Though heavy on command point usage and needs to be balanced with 2 other unit on starting board (which is what has hampered me from trying to include that in a low points list)

Quote

PS: Warhammer Weekly said that Misthavn didn't get basic CoS traits. Do we have a definitive answer on this? I don't have the book yet.

(He says it around 2:24:55)

I mean, its not listed under Misthavn battle traits like how Har Kuron explicitly calls out they cannot use Way of the Free Peoples.  Nothing I see on the Misthavn page implies that there would be any reason they could not use the normal abilities.

[Kyriakin]

35 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

I hope you will forgive a newbie for a potentially dumb question regarding command abilities and semantics.  Shadowstrike says you have to be wholly within 12 of "A" hero.  So the way I was reading it was that it didn't need to specifically be "this" hero, so as long as they were deepstriking near a hero unit it would work.  However, I may have been too optimistic there?

You only have two heroes, so it can only be the Sorceress or DLoBD (4dChan says "friendly", but does the book specify this?).

Because you made her a Shadowlord, I assumed the Sorceress was the primary slingshot for something (the dragon, I guess) to Shadowstrike off for an easy charge, which means she would need to be in the thick of it near the enemy.

However, because she is a Darkling Coven, she cannot herself be deepstruck and would instead have to foot-slog to the required position to be used as a slingshot.

If you used the dragon as the slingshot, the issue is that he himself remains at 9 inches and unlikely to make the charge (unless heroes can Shadowstrike themselves, lol)

How about grabbing a Lokhir Fellheart from eBay, and making him an in-theme Assassin general?

Not only does the Assassin unlock Shadow Warriors as Battleline, but he is a Shadowblade and can therefore be Deepstruck directly into the thick of it, and then immediately used as a slingshot for other stuff that is also being deepstruck alongside him (i.e. the dragon, knights, etc.). Because he is cheap, it doesn't matter that he probably won't then make the 9-inch charge himself.

Keep the foot Sorceress too, though. Word of Pain is good, and Misthavn players are going to need as many Darkling Coven units deployed as possible. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Kyriakin

[MetaphoricDragon]

6 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Because you made her Shadowlord, I assumed she was the primary slingshot for something (the dragon, I guess) to Shadowstrike off, which means she needs to be in the thick of it near the enemy.

However, because she is a Darkling Coven, she cannot be deepstruck and would instead have to foot-slog to the required position to be used as a slingshot.

If you used the dragon as the slingshot, the issue is that he himself remains at 9 inches and unlikely to make the charge (can heroes Shadowstrike themselves?!)

How about grabbing a Lokhir Fellheart from eBay, and making him an Pirate Assassin?

Not only does the Assassin unlock Shadow Warriors as Battleline, but he is a Shadowblade and can therefore be Deepstruck directly into the thick of it, and then immediately used as a slingshot for other stuff that is also being deepstruck alongside him (i.e. the dragon, knights, etc.). Because he is cheap, it doesn't matter that he probably won't then make the charge himself.

I do rather expect for the sorceress to be relatively up in things as my idea was to keep her in range to buff the Black Guard.  Unfortunately there is no other Darkling Coven hero, but maybe WIly Foe would be the better command trait to take.

I don't see any immediate reason why a hero cannot shadowstrike themselves.  The once per turn clause makes me think If i deepstriked the Dragon and the Knights same turn, the dragon could not shadowstrike both of them though.

I do in fact have Lokir, figured I'd be using him as a Fleetmaster if I got to that though, I also do have a kitbashed assassin I used back in 5/6e as well, but that is an interesting idea, both to use as a slingshot or to use as a mini missile

[Kyriakin]

Oh, OK. I don't have access to the book yet (currently in China), so am relying on the 4dChan wording for Shadowstrike.

If a hero can indeed Shadowstrike himself, the situation becomes slightly less awkward.

I guess a final option could be SoBD to run out into the action, and slingshot deepstrikers into the enemy. She improves the Darkling Coven ratio too. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Kyriakin

[Boar]

 

50 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

I mean, its not listed under Misthavn battle traits like how Har Kuron explicitly calls out they cannot use Way of the Free Peoples.  Nothing I see on the Misthavn page implies that there would be any reason they could not use the normal abilities.

Yup, no exception are listed on Misthavn traits, and 2 pages earlier we have this:

Quote

The army is still considered to be a Cities of Sigmar
army and can use the Ways of the Free Peoples
battle traits unless stated otherwise.

 

[Kyriakin]

2 minutes ago, Boar said:

Yup, no exception are listed on Misthavn traits, and 2 pages earlier we have this:

Oh, awesome.

Vince Venturella is usually pretty on the ball, but maybe slipped up there.

[Boar]

6 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Oh, awesome.

Vince Venturella is usually pretty on the ball, but maybe slipped up there.

Well he wasn't very enthusiastic about those cities😉

 

When it comes to Shadowstrike, I re-read that, and I can see how it would be interpreted in restrictive way. Once per turn sounds right, it looks like the way they write those rules. All those clauses read like they would have AND operator between them.

Unfortunatelly how it's written if you set-up Dreadlord on Dragon outside other hero bubble it look like it would be no Shadowstrike for you. As only after the set-up is completed Dreadlord would be within hero's (himself) range - so you wouldn't be setting it up within hero range. This could be circumvented f.ex. by deepstriking Fleetmaster and Dreadlord, setting Fleetmaster (or Assassin perhaps) and then setting up Dreadlord within 12" of Fleetmaster.

I mean I am not dead-set on those, and they look not clear enough that they would need FAQ, though as I said I would lean towards more restricive interpretation

[Kyriakin]

I have never done so much mental gymnastics in list-building, and had so little reward for it, lol.

At least if we keep talking, this thread will get long and city will seem really popular. Then GW might give it some love.

It is almost more popular than The Phoenicium already, lol

Edited December 2, 2020 by Kyriakin

[Lord of the Isle]

For me Misthavn is cooler and in some ways more effective than Continuity Anvilgard at least - if only it wasn't for the missing spells!

[MetaphoricDragon]

10 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said:

For me Misthavn is cooler and in some ways more effective than Continuity Anvilgard at least - if only it wasn't for the missing spells!

Yeah, I'm really, really, holding out for an errata/faq fix.  The theme/feel of this city just really appeals to me in ways the other cities have not sparked in my brain, so I really want to make it work, but would also prefer not to be starting off with some obvious handicaps  

[Lord of the Isle]

For now I've started a Soulbound campaign in Misty! We have a skink, an amethyst wizard, a witch aelf and a Thunderer Sergeant, currently battling ghouls and vargheists in the bilges of a tavern-carrack...