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Saturmorn Carvilli

Lumineth Realm-Lords Army List Discussion

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In an attempt to ween some of the posts from very long discussion thread to a more specific thread now that LRL has its own subgroup, I am starting this one. 

To kick it off, I changed my initial army list as the models I ordered were a little different than I originally planned.  I am very much sticking with Ymetrica as that is the colors I am painting my army.  As well as trying to lean into playing a mostly Alarith army.  Here is my list so far:

Great Nation: Ymetrica

Leader: Stone Mage, Light of Eltharion

Battleline: Stone Guard (picks) x10, Stone Guard (mallets) x10, Wardens x20, Dawn Riders x5,

Behemoth: Spirit of the Mountain

Other: Dawn Riders x5, Sentinels x10, Sentinels x10

Battalions: Alarith Temple

1990pts, 124 Wounds

That's basically all my non-Leader models.  I have/will have Avalenor, Teclis, the Scinari Cathallar and the Lumineth Endless Spells as the rest of my LRL collection.  I could switch out the Spirit of the Mountain and Light of Eltharion for Avalenor and Scinari Cathallar which would also leave me with the ability to take Endless Spells/Command Point.  I don't see that as useful for my army at this point though.

When my budget allows, I would like to get at least 10 Stone Guard and 20 more Wardens.  That is going to have to wait a bit though. I do want to get some feedback on the list I can put together now just the same.

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I think for feedback, you also need to talk about:

1. how you are intending to play the list. 

2. Your expected meta in your area. 

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3 hours ago, Evantas said:

I think for feedback, you also need to talk about:

1. how you are intending to play the list. 

2. Your expected meta in your area. 

My current thoughts is to have the Wardens front and center with the Sentinels behind them with both moving toward and possible nearby objectives as needed.  The Dawn Riders are for distant objectives/speed bumps until my Alarith or the Light of Eltharion can get there.  Probably keeping the Stone Mage and Spirit close together along with a unit of Stone Guard to serve as my hammer.  All-in-all, I plan to play them pretty classic rank file Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Cavalry and Archers.

My usual opponents include Disciples of Tzeentch (I don't want to go neg play experience if possible), Blades of Khorne,  Kharadron Overlords and occasionally a squiggy army of Gloomspite Gitz.  Most players don't have much more than 2,500pts in their collections, and as such, they don't typically have optimized armies either.  To put it another way, my Slaves to Darkness army of mostly warriors and knights was doing pretty well so long as the battleplan had known, static objectives.  Part of that was my army is pretty simple.  My ability to leverage wins was starting to falter as my opponents starting really learn the finer details of their armies.

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Well no one else replied, so my own untested thoughts:

1. I would think Wardens and Stoneguard have pretty much the same roles as anvils, so I would probably just take a 3rd group of 5 or 10 stoneguards and focus mainly on Alarith troops. 

This frees up points to upgrade the Spirit to Avalenor as an option, and getting a 2nd unit of Dawnriders or 2nd Stonemage. 

2. Looking at your meta, it definitely looks like your stone mage will very likely get shot off or deepstuck and killed before T2 for some matches, so i think you have to play around that or have a 2nd one on your list? 

The points are very hard to play around with though. 

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17 hours ago, Evantas said:

Well no one else replied, so my own untested thoughts:

1. I would think Wardens and Stoneguard have pretty much the same roles as anvils, so I would probably just take a 3rd group of 5 or 10 stoneguards and focus mainly on Alarith troops. 

This frees up points to upgrade the Spirit to Avalenor as an option, and getting a 2nd unit of Dawnriders or 2nd Stonemage. 

2. Looking at your meta, it definitely looks like your stone mage will very likely get shot off or deepstuck and killed before T2 for some matches, so i think you have to play around that or have a 2nd one on your list? 

The points are very hard to play around with though. 

I appreciate the response. 

In terms of point #1, I wanted 3 groups of Stone Guard.  However, I wasn't not expecting their monetary price to be as expensive as it was.  So I only bought a total of 20 Stone Guard which I plan to model half with picks and half with mallets, and each group having a leader with twin hammers and a banner bearer.  I don't really mind the twin hammers not being as good and I kinda want to have a group of both weapon types for aesthetics.  At some point I so want to pick up another 10 Stone Guard as to really fill out the Alarith Temple.  I am going to probably wait to see what a start collecting to battle box has, though; so it could be a long wait.

As for point #2, I strongly considered a second Stone Mage, but again my Lumineth budget was strained from the expected prices for the models.  Depending on what the Underworlds warband models look like I have been considering using something in it for a proxy for a second Stone Mage.  Or go with some third party model to kitbash one at some point.  Until then, I only have the one. 

I do agree that them getting removed quickly could be an issue.  Strangely, the person I primarily play (DoT and KO player) has some strange code of honor about not attacking heroes.  Whether it is an actual code or he doesn't see my heroes as threats I don't know.  What I can tell you is when I play my S2D Ravagers army he ignores my Sorcerer Lord and Chaos Lord on foot far more than I would, and he has been burned my the Chaos Lord's double attack Command Ability enough to know not to.

 

I could drop the Light of Eltharion and 10 Wardens to fit in both Avalenor and a Spirit of the Mountain.  Playing a Warrior and Knight heavy S2D army, I wanted to stick kinda close to what I am used to.  So I kinda have an idea how I want to use the Wardens but don't have as clear an idea how I want to use the behemoths.  I agree that Lumineth points aren't easy to pick and chose with.  I am also not sure how good of an idea it will be to mostly forsake spell casting with them even if I am mostly going with Mountain Aspect stuff.  I mostly play against DoT so I kinda shy away from magic too much as it usually doesn't work or only strengthens my opponent.

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When you can allow for it, I’d also get another Stonemage (or the proxy you mentioned), just because running with two behemoths with accompanying Stonemages sounds like a lot of fun for someone who likes the Alarith. 

Your list seems like an good point to start, and see how it goes. Against DoT I’d try a Teclis build at some point, just to see how it works. Because without a Cathallar (who likely wouldn’t get the spell off anyway) or Teclis, you might be very susceptible to their MW output. 

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5 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

I could drop the Light of Eltharion and 10 Wardens to fit in both Avalenor and a Spirit of the Mountain.  Playing a Warrior and Knight heavy S2D army, I wanted to stick kinda close to what I am used to.  So I kinda have an idea how I want to use the Wardens but don't have as clear an idea how I want to use the behemoths.  I agree that Lumineth points aren't easy to pick and chose with.  I am also not sure how good of an idea it will be to mostly forsake spell casting with them even if I am mostly going with Mountain Aspect stuff.  I mostly play against DoT so I kinda shy away from magic too much as it usually doesn't work or only strengthens my opponent.

My counter proposal 

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Ymetrica
LEADERS
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- General
The Light of Eltharion (220)
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
UNITS
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Diamondpick Hammers
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)
BEHEMOTHS
Alarith Spirit of the Mountain (340)
BATTALIONS
Alarith Temple (120)

 

Rationale:

Combined the sentinels into 1 group to make your army a 4-drop list. Work with your 20 stoneguards by splitting 10 - 5 - 5. Since the mallets don't work that well, might as well use them for screening instead. Then think in terms of battlegroups: 

 

Battlegroup 1: Vanguard

These are either your bait, or your counter-charge elements. The stoneguard screen off the most obvious charge lanes, while your heroes do all the work. 

5 Stoneguard with Mallets

Avalenor 

Light of Eltharion / Stone Mage

 

Battlegroup 2: Main Body/Main Objective Holders

The enemy will not be able to ignore the sentinels and will need to come to you, so you can stand on the main objective and let them come. 

20 Sentinels

10 Stoneguard with Diamond Picks

1 Spirit of the mountain

Stone Mage / Light of Eltharion

 

Battlegroup 3: Secondary Objective Holders / Flankers 

5 Stoneguard 

10 Dawnriders

 

I might add Suffocating Gravetide for the last 20 pts, in case you get first turn, then you just cast this and keep it next to your stonemage for a -2 to be hit with missile weapons when vs ranged armies (potentially -3 if you can get somehow get shockwave in range)

 

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Interesting.  At first look I was concerned about the lack of speed with so few Dawn Riders.  However, you make a good point that my opponent is going to want to close the distance to deal with those sentinels giving the rest of my army a chance to get stuck in.  It is definitely a much different list than what I would have thought of.  I also kinda like it for transportation logistics of not having to bring Wardens.  Finally, it looks very different to one of the other players getting Lumineth at my FLGS I spoke with.  I don't know if I will every play him, but he said he was going very heavy into Vanari especially Wardens as he really likes elven spearmen.

I think I will go with this instead.   Thank you.

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5 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

When you can allow for it, I’d also get another Stonemage (or the proxy you mentioned), just because running with two behemoths with accompanying Stonemages sounds like a lot of fun for someone who likes the Alarith. 

Your list seems like an good point to start, and see how it goes. Against DoT I’d try a Teclis build at some point, just to see how it works. Because without a Cathallar (who likely wouldn’t get the spell off anyway) or Teclis, you might be very susceptible to their MW output. 

Yeah, I am going to actually have to think about MW hurting with Lumineth.  Bravery too for that matter.  My Chaos Undivided Warriors and Knights made me lazy to dealing with those elements.

I certainly will field Teclis as some point, but I want to learn the faction via the Alarith.  They were what had me go from, "The Lumineth look nice enough in a classic high elf sort of way." to "I am going to start an army of that faction."  As a geologist, I am always a fan of non-dwarven earth elementalists in fantasy.  Not that I have an issue with dwarves.  It is just that they are always the go to fantasy earth-aspect race.  Which after way too much D&D is too played out for me to be that interested anymore.

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5 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

Yeah, I am going to actually have to think about MW hurting with Lumineth.  Bravery too for that matter.  My Chaos Undivided Warriors and Knights made me lazy to dealing with those elements.

I certainly will field Teclis as some point, but I want to learn the faction via the Alarith.  They were what had me go from, "The Lumineth look nice enough in a classic high elf sort of way." to "I am going to start an army of that faction."  As a geologist, I am always a fan of non-dwarven earth elementalists in fantasy.  Not that I have an issue with dwarves.  It is just that they are always the go to fantasy earth-aspect race.  Which after way too much D&D is too played out for me to be that interested anymore.

The best way to have fun! Also great to have to focus on some ... elements ... of the game which you hadn't to in the past with your Chaos army. Should keep things interesting. And if I understand you correctly - it's not about the most competitive spec for you anyway. Your list above has a bit of everything, so it should at least be viable for a fun game - in case you are not going up against a maxed out flamer Changehost or something like that. I'd start with what I like, and make incremental changes from there to optimize and keep things fresh. 

Have you seen the Alarith focused video from AoS Coach (Lumineth 2)? That might also give you a few more ideas for your Alarith and how to use them. They are also talking about the MW issue there (although if I remember correctly, they also didn't have a good solution besides - suck it up). 

And if you haven't bought it already - the Lumineth novel should be interesting for you. (Although .... thinking about it, as a geologist there might be a lot cringey things in it 😅). 

 

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So what do people think about the lists (besides the mistakes): https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/18/creating-competitive-lumineth-lists/ 

The Aalrith one I guess will catch people off guard, because probably most people won’t be aware of all the synergies. If you can manage to apply all those buffs and bonuses on the Stoneguard, that’s be rough for your opponent. It’s expensive (35 Stoneguard), so even if it’s good, I guess not many people will play that way in the end. 

I also hadn’t seen anyone putting 30 Dawnriders in a list. If someone paints them for me, I’d be happy to give that one a shot too : ). 

So far it’s really nice to see quite a lot of different lists. Hopefully it stays that way. 

 

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35 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

So what do people think about the lists (besides the mistakes): https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/18/creating-competitive-lumineth-lists/ 

The Aalrith one I guess will catch people off guard, because probably most people won’t be aware of all the synergies. If you can manage to apply all those buffs and bonuses on the Stoneguard, that’s be rough for your opponent. It’s expensive (35 Stoneguard), so even if it’s good, I guess not many people will play that way in the end. 

I also hadn’t seen anyone putting 30 Dawnriders in a list. If someone paints them for me, I’d be happy to give that one a shot too : ). 

So far it’s really nice to see quite a lot of different lists. Hopefully it stays that way. 

 

I read that earlier today - they all look pretty fun, but really only the Ymetrica list seems like it'd have any viability at all as a "competitive" army (and that's what the article is supposed to be about - I've got tons of "fun" lists in mind, but I feel like if they want to call these lists competitive they should at least be theoretically capable of going 3-2 at a 5 round event). I could definitely see Ymetrica lists looking just like this doing well, except I'm pretty sure the Diamondpick Hammers will be the weapons of choice on the Stoneguard.

I'd say pretty much any list with Teclis is going to have to run at least one battalion, because unless you've got 3 or less drops (probably 2, honestly), you're just asking for Teclis to get effortlessly shot off the table on the top of turn 1 by KO, Seraphon, Stormcast, Tzeentch, etc. and ruin your whole gameplan. The Syar list seems to have been transcribed wrong, as he's talking in the article about running Sentinels, so I'm assuming he's meant to be running 2x20 Wardens and 2x10 Sentinels - I think the better choice there would be to swap one unit of Dawnriders and the second Cathallar for the Auralan Legion to lower drops (to 3 max - Teclis, Legion, Dawnriders), you 100% want to add the Umbral Spellportal, Emerald Lifeswarm, and the Twinstones or something to take advantage of Teclis's casting. I could see something like this being one of the major competitive lists for Lumineth, if Teclis ends up being played at all in the long run (though I honestly think it'll just be Teclis and the Legion to make it 2 drops, boring as that sounds).

The Zaitrec list... is a joke, basically. Too many drops, you're pretty much giving up all of the Zaitrec bonuses because Teclis is your only hero, you're going to be unable to use command abilities the vast majority of the time... much as I like the idea of running 30 Dawnriders (and someone will do it, mark my words), this feels more like a meme then a "competitive" list (and I'm all for meme lists, but that's not what the article claims to be talking about). Hell, you probably shouldn't even be in Zaitrec if you want to run this list - it'd be better in Iliatha, because at least then you're getting something relevant out of it (increased bravery on all of your non-Teclis units, and the Strike In Unison command ability that can be used from anywhere on the table). I'm pretty sure there's a way to make the Dawnrider Lance decent, if not top-tier competitive, but sadly this ain't it.

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Since I took the time to smack talk the designers' lists above, I figured I may as well post the (initial) list I'm building towards for funsies and to get feedback from the community:

-----

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Iliatha

Leaders
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Loremaster - Protection of Hysh
- Artefact: Silver Wand
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- Artefact: Simulacra Amulet
- Lore of the High Peaks: Voice of the Mountain
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
The Light of Eltharion (220)

Battleline
20 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (240)
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (240)
- Lore of Hysh: Ethereal Blessing
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Ethereal Blessing

Units
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Diamondpick Hammers

Battalions
Auralan Legion (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Hyshian Twinstones (30)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

-----

This isn't meant to be a highly competitive list, mind - think of this as the list of a hobbyist who wants to get as many different Lumineth models on the table as possible, while simultaneously being able to give the guys at the FLGS a fun, fair challenge... while minimizing the NPE parts of the faction that I can see causing the most griping. namely no Teclis, no Total Eclipse shenanigans, and only 20 Sentinels.

Once I've got these dudes all painted up, version 2 will probably involve dropping Eltharion (much as I love the model, I think I'm gonna need more bodies than I can afford with him in the list) for 5 more Dawnriders and 5 more Stoneguard, and then I think I'll be good. There'll be room in the future for Teclis and more Sentinels should the need arise, but I'm really liking this as a starting point. Still, I'd greatly appreciate any feedback or advice you guys can offer!

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Since my travel budget is basically not usable for the foreseeable future, I decided to buy up the lumineth releases and lay them aside for my next army project, after I finish painting my trees. I already play monster mash with Sylvaneth, and my CoS elf army is basically just for hobby/kitbash fun, so I was looking to get into a magic-heavy army anyway.

So, my present plans for a list are as follows:

Mage-God Teclis and his pal, The Moon (660), Cathallar Sadlass (general, Gift of Celennar, Fast Learner) (140), Stonemage Hueghorns (130), Light of Eltharion, aka Gotrek Jr (220)

For actual bodies, we go with 20 Wardens (240), 10 Wardens (120), 2 groups of 10 Sentinels (280), and 5 Stoneguard (100).

That brings the list to 1890, which means I've got room to play with a bit - I can either take both the Twinstones and the Rune of Petrification, or take another 5 Stoneguard. I'm inclined to go with the former, because if Teclis slaps the stones down first, I create a tremendous spell battery that will let me cast with basically my whole army and buff everyone. The range on the Rune is 18", which means I can plop it right into the enemy main line, and then they take a guaranteed 2d3 MW from it before they can move.

I'm aware that this configuration gives up turn priority with 9 drops, which is probably a serious issue, but I'm willing to hedge my bets that I can screen from alpha strikes and try to weather the first turn of my opponent with shining companies and aetherquartz if necessary before I blow them out with 10 spells in my hero phase, followed by MW shooting aplenty, followed by Eltharion sawing through basically whatever wandered too close to him. I think it will be a fun list, and not as bully as the Sylvaneth lists I usually run. :3

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3 hours ago, l1censetochill said:

Since I took the time to smack talk the designers' lists above, I figured I may as well post the (initial) list I'm building towards for funsies and to get feedback from the community:

-----

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Iliatha

Leaders
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Loremaster - Protection of Hysh
- Artefact: Silver Wand
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- Artefact: Simulacra Amulet
- Lore of the High Peaks: Voice of the Mountain
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
The Light of Eltharion (220)

Battleline
20 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (240)
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (240)
- Lore of Hysh: Ethereal Blessing
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Ethereal Blessing

Units
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Diamondpick Hammers

Battalions
Auralan Legion (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Hyshian Twinstones (30)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

-----

This isn't meant to be a highly competitive list, mind - think of this as the list of a hobbyist who wants to get as many different Lumineth models on the table as possible, while simultaneously being able to give the guys at the FLGS a fun, fair challenge... while minimizing the NPE parts of the faction that I can see causing the most griping. namely no Teclis, no Total Eclipse shenanigans, and only 20 Sentinels.

Once I've got these dudes all painted up, version 2 will probably involve dropping Eltharion (much as I love the model, I think I'm gonna need more bodies than I can afford with him in the list) for 5 more Dawnriders and 5 more Stoneguard, and then I think I'll be good. There'll be room in the future for Teclis and more Sentinels should the need arise, but I'm really liking this as a starting point. Still, I'd greatly appreciate any feedback or advice you guys can offer!

This is pretty much my list, except I dropped the battalion for another 5 Stoneguard. I haven't made up my mind if I want to bring endless spells or not, but with 60 points left over, I'm considering bringing the twin stones and sanctum. 

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@l1censetochill That looks like a fun list, and you have everything you need. All the spells, range, speed, option for a nice small castle etc. If you don't need the CP, you could drop the Twinstones too and add another 5 x Stoneguard. It's already good, but the Alarith on one end, and Eltharion on the other put some difficult choices on your opponent. But that looks like a great start for what you want to achieve. I also like that you take Iliatha, which often seems to be overlooked, although it's pretty good and flexible. 

@overtninja You can try what you want to do, but you might want to think about dropping one of the Heroes and get some Dawnriders or just more bodies instead. If you already have Teclis and only 5 Stoneguard, the Stonemage probably doesn't do that much for you (because Teclis can cast all the spells anyway, the Stonemage only has one, and you don't have a Battalion to use artifacts etc.). Otherwise, if you want to try your list, I'd take the 5 more Stoneguard. If you want to go fully annoying on the magic part, you could take the Twinstones and the Spell Portal .... with that you can blast your opponent form T1 with Searing White Light or whatever else you want. The Rune is good too though.

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@LuminethMage You are probably right about dropping the Stonemage, I figured he'd be good for buffing the Stoneguard with an additional -1 rend on their hammers and spamming Voice of the Mountain to ruin the enemy's bravery so that the 'you can't do that' spells will stick better, but the Stoneguard probably won't need a hero escort if they use picks instead of sledges. With 130 points I could also take some Dawnriders, which would be nice for a mobility option... I have enough that I can tinker with the list a bit as I play, since the only thing I didn't buy was Avelanor. Thanks for the advice!

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Syar

 

Scinari Cathallar (General) [Spellmaster, Perfect Blade, Lambent Light]

Eltharion

 

30 Wardens

30 Wardens

20 Wardens

10 Sentinels

10 Sentinels

20 Sentinels

Auralan Legion

 

Boring list is boring.  Goal is to be 2 drops and go first, Lambent Light your 20 Sentinels and just light up an opponent's support hero through mortal wound spam. Scinari and Eltharion do what they can to supplement bravery loss from the quartz spam, they likely die turn 2.

3 blocks of 40 models (Sentinels behind their Wardens but in range for battalion bonus) each march forward in Shining Formation on turn 1. If enemy doubles, your guys are 3+ save rerolling 1s at -1 to hit. If you take top of 2, you drop formation and charge. 

1 dimensional and as such, probably not great, but looks potentially powerful, especially if opponent lacks powerful ranged options to properly kill your heroes. 

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