Deathmage Faction

[MechaBriZilla]

I was about to post this in my Battletome thread, but I realized this is so far away from what I had been trying to do there, that it probably needed it's own topic, so here goes.  Everything below is pure speculation, of course.  But unfortunately with the lack of Death Battletomes, or even rumors about Death Battletomes, this is what I am left doing...

I've actually been thinking a lot about how you would take the various Caster only factions and turn them into a developed faction of their own, and I sort of have an idea about that.

With Deathmages, maybe it could be something like this: (Someting similar could clearly be done using the Collegiate Arcane.)

Some new, yet as of yet unseen, named hero.

Generic Necromancer Model - I'd love this to be a new kit with options, but that isn't required.

Magical Warmachines: We already have the Mortis Engine, but there could be more.

Behemoths - Any Necromantically infused creature - I.e. we could use the Zombie Dragon or Terrorgiest here (unmounted since there is nothing to represent a Necromancer in that kit, and the current options wouldn't fit into a Necromancer lead factions fluff.), but it is also possible you could fit something new and as of yet unseen in here as well (in which case, we could get a mounted option).

Heavy Infantry or Cav/ Could be a unit of death infused constructs.  One possible example could be something like Flesh Golems (for the monstrous infantry slot)  i.e.: something like a Frankenstein's Monster, cobbled together using mortal remains, and given life with pure Necromantic arts. (actually in some ways, monsters of this variety could be used to fill out the entire Necromancer list of units, other than the Necromancers themselves.

Standard Infantry-sized units:

Ranged -Groups of apprentice Necromancers.  They would have ranged magic attacks that work almost exactly as current ranged attacks from things like archers.  Maybe a little more powerful, but with some element of chance or danger to them, to offset the power for fluff reasons...   Or, we could again insert some creature built using Necromantic arts, if there is a desire to keep the more Isolationist mein that Necromancers currently carry, in which case, apprentices aren't really a thing in this field of magical study.

Melee - Honestly not sure what to do here.  I mean the obvious choice would be summoning units from other Death subfactions as others have pointed out, but if GW wanted to find a way to make Deathmages a fully playable force in their own right, something would need to be done here.  i.e. smaller Flesh Golems,  or some other type of necromantically built creatures that aren't purely some mortal being in it's undead state i.e. not a Zombie/Skeleton/Spirit Host/ Etc....

 

Outside of Units there are some rules that might help out a Deathmage faction.

First, I think a caster only faction would clearly need access to a much wider range of spells than I have seen in AoS as of yet, as well as the ability for casters to bring a larger number of tools from that toolbox to the table.  Maybe they can have the standard spells plus 2 or 3 from their battletome or perhaps they could forgo the spells in the core rules, and instead take a two spell options from their battletome, in addition to the one listed in their warscroll.  To that end, perhaps they get different caster flavors.  Similar to how battle wizards were in WHFB. Some ideas for groupings might be as follows:

-Buff Casters - Focus primarily on improving the abilities of their armies.

-Debuff Casters - Focus on weakening their enemies

-Direct Damage Casters- get tools to outright destroy enemy models

-Summoners- Bonuses to any summoning spells with the Death Grand Alliance, maybe more powerful summoning spells.

-Self Modifiers -- This one is a real stretch in the current idea of a necromancer/current AoS fluff.  -- some one who uses his arts to modify his own living vessel.  Grafting parts of the dead to his body, replacing the parts of himself that have long since become useless due to the natural progression of time wearing away at his body, people desperate to hold onto their 'life' as it were, when their other magics have begun to fail them.  This could be used to get some sort of beat stick character into the army.  (this particular model would be ripe for conversion.)

I'm sure there are others I haven't thought of.  But each of these could have their own Lore containing about 6 spells, which would allow all of your heroes to have their own roll within your army, rather than a bunch of redundant heroes in addition to some named faction leader.

Outside of that their allegiance abilities and artifacts would be caster focused, allowing them to cast more powerful spells/make spells harder to dispell/make summoning more potent/etc.  Not honestly sure what else you might do here, but I'm sure that there are plenty of folks out there (and at GW) that could figure it out.

Anyway, what do you think?  And, sorry for the wall o'text.

[deynon]

Pratically is the necromancer list in the 6Th edition VC book.

[MechaBriZilla]

2 minutes ago, deynon said:

Pratically is the necromancer list in the 6Th edition VC book.

Ha! I had no idea.  I started painting in 5th edition, but didn't really get into the game fluff and lore for sometime after.  Honestly, AoS has made me happier and more interested in the game than any previous edition.

Anyway, I guess that means it's possible, even if improbable that this could in fact happen.

In 5th, what sort of units did they use?  Did they have a bunch of undead constructs and such?  I've never seen models for them.

[MechaBriZilla]

55 minutes ago, deynon said:

Pratically is the necromancer list in the 6Th edition VC book.

So...  Not to be contradictory or anything, but I just did some research on 5th ed and the Vampire Counts, and I'm not seeing how my idea is similar at all to what was available at that time.  From what I'm seeing, it seems the only thing similar, is that you could have a Necromancer as the main general of the army.  Other than that, they had no unique spell lores, no unique units, etc.  

What am I missing?

[deynon]

I wrote 6th edition, not 5th. At the end of thr book there were aternative lists like the necromancer one

 

 

 

[MechaBriZilla]

Sorry for the type-o  I did mean 6th and not 5th.

I think you and I are just off in our communication.  I hadn't meant to be insulting in my post.  

Anyway, it seems like you're saying what I propose has already been done, and as far as I can tell, it has not. 

From what I can see, once upon a time, you could use Necromancers as your generals (in a VC armybook list), but for all intents and purposes, those generals were still leading a VC style undead army, just without the Vampires.  Maybe they had special artifacts and such, but were not exactly a separate faction, with their own lore/units/organization/fluff/etc.  They were thematically and, more importantly in this specific case, rules linked to their parent army book, the Vampire Counts.

What I'm proposing is a totally separate army from the Vampire Counts.  One that is only linked to VC, or rather Soulblight now, in that they are part of the Death Grand Alliance.  I want separate and distinct units, magic, organization,  design aesthetic, fluff, leaders, etc...

Not unlike, like the Iron Jaws and Bonesplitterz, except of course, that we aren't even talking the same race when discussing Necromancers and Vampires.  But in the past Savage orks were included in the core Orcs and Goblins book.  Sure you could play them as an army without any other Orc/Goblin unit, but they were still linked to the rest of their orc brothers in most ways.  They were still a part of the Orcs and Goblins army, fluff, and rules.  Maybe field-able, but not distinct.

[mmimzie]

I feel like your doing to much they could make this battle tome with out adding any new models or making anything too complicated.

First: we already have 2 cool units that could shine.

Necromancer: a solid hero generic no command hero

Mortis engine: Cool model

Second: We can get battleline from battlations.
Give them 3 Battalion war scrolls that are death mage alliance. They've already done this with sylvaneth, Bonesplitters (?), and Beast Claw Raiders

This battalions could be:

1 necromancer+ zombies + corpse cart 

Necromancer+skeleton

Necromancer+Ghoul. Now you have battleline units

 

Each once could make that necromancer a specialist o those kinds of summoned creatures.

Necromancer+zombies: The necromancer becomes a master of flesh. All zombies from this battalion or summoned by a master of flesh can ignore wounds on 5+ as long as the master of flesh is alive.

Skeletons could get a movement an offensive one, Ghouls can get a movement one or something like this. To show those are specialized necromancers, and make up for the weakish alliegence ability below. 

Third: Spell lore/artifacts/Alligence ability Focus on buffing your summoned army

Alligence ability: give them nagash's double or triple summoning. "Heros from this army may summoning Twice the number of model when setting up a new unit, or set up twice the number of heros or monsters than listed in the spell"

Command Trait:

Master of death: Your summoning spells go off twice.

Unholy might: +1 attacks, to hit, to wound, rend, damage, saves, and number of wounds

Already Dead: General can't die, but instead sets up 9" away from enemy models. IF impossible model is destroyed.

etc:

 

Artifacts:

Unholy Writ: all banners in x" revive twice as many models

Tome of spells: +1 to casting values

Scroll of Reanimations(sword of unholy power): additional Auto caster summoning once per game

Necroctic Blade:  +1 attack, to hit, to wound or something to make you killy

Ward of the damned: +1 save or something tanky

Ring of immortality: blah blah.... or somethign else

 

Spell Lore: 

Wither: Does Mortal wounds in some unique way

Reraise Dead: Heal x D x wounds, or Raise x D x models in a unit.

Thy Will Be Done: Aoe: units in x" make extra move in the hero phase as if it was the movement phase.

Might of Nagash:  +1 attack to target death unit

Deaths touch: Target Unit gets -1 rend. or make its rend better by 1.

(this one is BS but would be cool): Raise mighty hero; Summon a Ghoul king, Vampire lord, Or Wight king to become the general of your army, and lead your undead horde. Roll a d6 on a 4+ the casting necromancer is removed from the game after successfully summoning the hero.

 

The above is enough to make a functional faction and battletome:

With just this you have a whole army. It's super fluffy. The necromancers by way of artifacts can become very tanky and on par with other heros. You get that big summoned horde thing you'd expect from a necromancer army. They can summon pretty much anything with these rules or make more cut throat heros. 

 

Either way they are still kinda frail and rely very heavily on their summoned army. They can summon anythign form GA:Death and do it almost as good or nagash. All spells pretty much focusing on making your army better.

 

They are necromancers not super heros. They are like the weakest of the weak who are resorting to dark magic and summoning minions to get power. They should work that way. 

 

Fourth:

If they truly must add a new unit to this faction. Just add another necromancer. Preferable one with a command ability, but the "Raise Hero" spell kind of fixes this too.

 

I suppose i like this approach bit better, because it's an army or faction of necromancers. They should be... Necromancing alot

[MechaBriZilla]

Idk mmimzie, I'm not looking for superheroes or anything.  I just want a real faction.  Perhaps I am a bit overboard, but I would really prefer they get a little more than a faction with 2-3 models but then can summon the rest of the faction. 

Maybe I'm just too model starved overall. But I would much prefer that our faction gain more individual flavor, and stop being the Vampire Counts revised for Age of Sigmar.  So far my favorite thing about AoS is that they have really re-imagined the factions.  Seeing Deaths only factional devirsity from previous editions, i.e. tomb kings, removed, I have been left feeling that our grand alliance is a bit bland in terms of diversity.

[mmimzie]

@MechaBriZilla

Sure i can did it, but i mean necromancers... you know control the dead or at least raise it. Should be an army based around that. Plus right now no army really puts a star on summoning, and there is a lot of room for a summoning based army. 

Also our faction needs more battalions. Other armies are getting a bunch of battalions giving them access to enough artifacts for each hero, and quicker easier deployment. Letting us get out deployed.

We need a battlione that brings flavor, Battalions, and fun to our faction stat. We can sue Deathamges very easily this way. As they could fit into lots of different armies easily even if you don't go full deathmage.

This could be released tomorrow as no new models need to be made.

If you want new models it'd be better they fleshed out death rattle/soulblight/ malignants for this. Even then those factions don't so much need new models, but reason to take all the models.
 

[deynon]

@MechaBriZilla:

I didn't take offence, I simply posted the imagine about the book I referred to cause I thought you misunderstood which one I was referring to. 

Sorry if I made you think otherways.

Yesterday I didn't have the book, now I kept it and this is what I'm referring to:

 

upload immagini

Your idea is a sort of mix about Necromancer and Necrarch one.

Obviously the amount of units avalaibel is improved with theyears, so these are quite osolete as lists, I only meant your idea was quite similar.

Surely a DeadWalker Battletome would not be bad, but I think your idea would be manly close to a Necromantic Battletome.

 

[Cordova]

I guess until GW "fleshes" them out, we won't really know what direction they're going to go with, with them, and I guess due to a lack of imagination on my part, together with being slightly wedded to the old background, I can't really see how you'd come up with a destinctive "necromancers only" army, without including the typical undead staples from the other undead factions.

Looking at the background from when necromancers last stood alone without being subservient to others (4th edition), necromancers were commonly found with wight, skeleton, and zombie minions, with wraiths (spirits of dead necromancers) drawn to them, along with either unridden or wight-ridden resurrected monsters (although there was also a necromancer on a not-dead manticore model, too).  This would translate into necromancers (possibly with lords & junior types to provide extra spells/abilities), wight kings, grave guard, black knights, skeletons, zombies, corpse carts, wraiths, zombie dragons, and maybe winged nightmares or terrorgheists.  As to whether this would feel different to the other death sub-factions, I don't know - I guess it's possible, dependent upon how you picked.  Obviously, whatever background GW decides to come up with could be substantially different, too.

Personally, I've always associated necromancers with wraiths, and lots of skeletons/zombies, and can't really shake that ...