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Starcast - The Thread


Turragor
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On 4/15/2020 at 12:23 PM, Turragor said:

Pre-Kroak I'd have been very worried but with I'm a bit more confident you'll have a good showing. Play carefully!

So I have been progressing through the league. I will have to play Idoneth in my last game and it seems hard, but I have never played against them (the lack of experience shows here) so we'll see how it goes. If you're curious the list I will be playing against is this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin - Mortal Realm: Shyish - Enclave: Fuethan
LEADERS
Volturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
- General
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (360)
- Artefact : Ethereal Amulet
Isharann Soulscryer (130)

UNITS
3 x Akhelian Allopexes (300)
- Razorshell Harpoon
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (340)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)
6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

So far I have lost to Seraphon (too many skinks and bonuses to unbind) and FEC (2 terrorgheist, one of which one-shotted the templar), won against Ogors (not BCR list, so pretty easy) and got a minor victory against... Tzeentch in Eternal Conflagration + Changehost (20 horrors + gaunt, 9 flamers and the rest). I was... surprised (positively so) by this result. Basically it went this way: my opponent (dominating the league pool so far) was very confident coming in, gave me first turn. Stroke of bad luck I didn't kill the Gaunt (two rain of stars couldn't do 1 MW to him) but now the Celestant was buffed and my positioning meant the flamers could only shoot on him

20200507215352_1.jpg.26215d0d4c0c4cc2364f45dd349b0435.jpg

Then he made a mistake placing three heroes in range of the Kroak personal spell through the spellportal (plus deepstruck the changeling with a unit of horrors) and all his heroes were dead in t2. He concluded that he had no chance of assaulting my castle. Unfortunately the pink horrors parked on his objective were too much to chew through with the Stardrake so it ended up on points. He killed one unit of liberators.

20200507224227_1.jpg.a2903289c373c923ecc6a1f3aafd0cd7.jpg

 

Edited by Marcvs
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Ok, got a major victory in the last game of the league pool against idoneth in focal points.

Here's a summary: I was very afraid of the alpha with 6 attack eels + volturnos so I mainly deployed to have them charge a unit of liberators. I had the choice of initiative in t1 and ultimately decided to take it. Not sure it was the right call but my thought process was: if I let him go first I will never move from my deployment zone and risk accumulating too much point difference (+ I felt confident of the survivability of the buffed celestant).

20200512221126_1.jpg.ff4a5363fb04eeb25dc56b928d609c0a.jpg

The aspect of the storm had taken 8 MW in my t1 and died before attacking.

Then he brought in the eels, volturnos and the soulscryer and charged my liberators on the left. Of course he deleted them BUT the gryph hound was now in pile-in distance so they were stuck there for the next turn. This didn't matter: I was lucky and won priority so no double turn for him. The attack eels felt the burn of the full magic barrage from kroak and 3 passages of storm winged, resulting in 18 MWs before the combat phase (where the templar seriously whiffed and infliced 1 damage...). In the centre the celestant was dishing MW with the shield and my opponent was running out of models. I paradropped the last unit of liberators to take one of his objectives now guarded by a single attack eel which would soon die anyway.

20200512230404_1.jpg.8fde822a1eb5c5b6123d9477d02375d8.jpg

In t3 he had lost all his units apart from a shark and he conceded (before dying, Volturnos had charged Kroak and didn't manage to kill it 🐸 > 🐟).

Considering the 5 games in the pool, I have finished with a 3-2 result and am pretty happy with it. For the "internal"comparison, there is another Stormcast player with the straight shootcast list who could end up 4-1 depending on the last game result -but his/her pool was IMHO a little softer (Slaanesh, Sylvaneth, Cities, Ironjawz, Nurgle) :D

I will have another tournament organised by the Troll Slayers this Saturday but I have a feeling it will be tougher (36 players have signed up). I see Seraphon lists with a lot of skinks and salamanders floating around (+great magic). I also have a feeling that the series of magic-heavy armies coming out (Tzeentch, Seraphon, Lumineth) might have a negative impact on the Kroak-version of the list, since if they manage to unbind the two comets in t1 they are able to seriously hamper our initial MW output. Or maybe not, who am I to make predictions? 😅

Edited by Marcvs
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Grats on 3-2! With your group I think thats great. Its what we expect of Starcast - SC arent going to go 4-1 without lucky matcups and never 5-0 without a lot of blood, sweat and tears because when you are running that hot you meet the really tough lists and there are just some we haven't the tools to take out.

What's the shootcast player's last matchup? Its not really important, if we're being honest Shootcast will stretch a little ahead of starcast in performance - or should - even on equal matchups (if they are truly random).

One question I have for you, Seraphon have unlimited unbind range right? I always found that I can position to always get the comet off turn 1 because its range is so obscene. Unlimited unbind range makes it more of a lottery buuut you still have the plus 2 to cast I guess.

I think Kroak is great but against a lot of magic there are definitely the old school options. I am dying to play now. I might have to figure out the tabletop game software - its a bit daunting at first glance.

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1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Grats on 3-2! With your group I think thats great. Its what we expect of Starcast - SC arent going to go 4-1 without lucky matcups and never 5-0 without a lot of blood, sweat and tears because when you are running that hot you meet the really tough lists and there are just some we haven't the tools to take out.

What's the shootcast player's last matchup? Its not really important, if we're being honest Shootcast will stretch a little ahead of starcast in performance - or should - even on equal matchups (if they are truly random).

One question I have for you, Seraphon have unlimited unbind range right? I always found that I can position to always get the comet off turn 1 because its range is so obscene. Unlimited unbind range makes it more of a lottery buuut you still have the plus 2 to cast I guess.

I think Kroak is great but against a lot of magic there are definitely the old school options. I am dying to play now. I might have to figure out the tabletop game software - its a bit daunting at first glance.

Thanks!

I think that the shootcast player's last game will be against nurgle (but it could also be ironjawz or sylvaneth, I only have the results of each player not the previous matchupts), so a victory is definitely within his/her reach.

About your question: yes, it is indeed possible to have kroak and the incantor/exorcist both outside unbind range in t1, and this is what happens when I go first. When I go second, that's trickier (at least for Kroak): I think that deploying him so deep, means losing a lot of potential in later turns. His 10" spell is potentially devastating (especially vs tzeentch ofc) and even more so with the addition of the balewind.

When it comes to unbinding rolls, the problem with Seraphon is that they can get to +2/+3 to unbind so that, even with our bonuses, it becomes a roll-off. Tzeentch has the lord of change and the "double the highest dice" -as an aside, this made it all the sweeter when I won against tzeentch rolling 12, 13 and 14 in my magic phase😅 - and I suppose Lumineth will bring also something along these lines to the table.

Concerning tabletop simulator: yes, at first it is indeed a bit clunky, but the learning process is pretty fast if you have someone explaining the tools to you. If you want to jump in, I would be happy to help! (this might or might not be worth it depending on how the situation is evolving where you are and how soon you think you'll be able to play in real life again. Here my club has already announced it will be closed until September so...)

 

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3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Thanks!

I think that the shootcast player's last game will be against nurgle (but it could also be ironjawz or sylvaneth, I only have the results of each player not the previous matchupts), so a victory is definitely within his/her reach.

About your question: yes, it is indeed possible to have kroak and the incantor/exorcist both outside unbind range in t1, and this is what happens when I go first. When I go second, that's trickier (at least for Kroak): I think that deploying him so deep, means losing a lot of potential in later turns. His 10" spell is potentially devastating (especially vs tzeentch ofc) and even more so with the addition of the balewind.

When it comes to unbinding rolls, the problem with Seraphon is that they can get to +2/+3 to unbind so that, even with our bonuses, it becomes a roll-off. Tzeentch has the lord of change and the "double the highest dice" -as an aside, this made it all the sweeter when I won against tzeentch rolling 12, 13 and 14 in my magic phase😅 - and I suppose Lumineth will bring also something along these lines to the table.

Concerning tabletop simulator: yes, at first it is indeed a bit clunky, but the learning process is pretty fast if you have someone explaining the tools to you. If you want to jump in, I would be happy to help! (this might or might not be worth it depending on how the situation is evolving where you are and how soon you think you'll be able to play in real life again. Here my club has already announced it will be closed until September so...)

 

Thanks, yeah maybe I can find time to get "coached" one evening - with 2 small kids my time is kind of broken up a lot. Even in normal circumstances.

- but I guess if you are playing you can pause the game and have the state preserved? So you could play out a round per night or so?

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3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I think that deploying him so deep, means losing a lot of potential in later turns.

I would add here (for anyone else reading and looking for general starcast tips) - if you play 1 wizard or as many as you like, and can't get 1 of them within dispell range t2 you are really hamstringing your comet performance.  ALTHOUGH I have played very successful games where the r1 comet and following prime/stardrakex2 barrage was enough to win me the game by taking out the key buff pieces.

It really depends. The 1st one is the MOST important but why play to only get one if you can get more? The answer is you don't play that way, unless you are forced to.

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3 hours ago, Turragor said:

Thanks, yeah maybe I can find time to get "coached" one evening - with 2 small kids my time is kind of broken up a lot. Even in normal circumstances.

- but I guess if you are playing you can pause the game and have the state preserved? So you could play out a round per night or so?

ok I will separate this point from the tactical one (see my next post for that).

so: yes, games can be saved and loaded so it's perfectly doable to only play one round, but I am also available to meet online purely to show you how tts works if you only have small bits of time

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3 hours ago, Turragor said:

I would add here (for anyone else reading and looking for general starcast tips) - if you play 1 wizard or as many as you like, and can't get 1 of them within dispell range t2 you are really hamstringing your comet performance.  ALTHOUGH I have played very successful games where the r1 comet and following prime/stardrakex2 barrage was enough to win me the game by taking out the key buff pieces.

It really depends. The 1st one is the MOST important but why play to only get one if you can get more? The answer is you don't play that way, unless you are forced to.

about this: yes, dispelling the comet (ideally, with Kroak or a Slann) is great but I find myself sometimes skipping this IF I can discharge 3 salvos of Kroak's personal spell on a priority target + his comet and just use the stormcast wizard to cast mystic shield on the templar. Of course if the comet can hit multiple units AND important ones, it's a no brainer, but the dispel is not 100% sure and is as difficult as the third cast of the personal spell (needs a 6). In t2 I am generally casting the balewind vortex so the spell has range 16" and if I am facing an army which brings forward its important pieces (like the attack eels in my game against idoneth) 3xcelestial deliverance can dish more "concentrated" MWs than a comet. Of course you could also skip the mystic shield (if you have a lot of CP and the enemy has no strong shooting) and go for dispel (+ balewind) + kroak comet + 2xcelestial deliverance + everblaze

Oh btw, forgot to add to my previous posts: in all these games I got zero complaints about the interpretation of storm-winged activating multiple times in a turn. The only discussion was about the possibility of making a "standing still" pile in (go forward 1" and back to your original spot) when in base contact with multiple models, but a quick glance at the text of the rule was enough to clarify and allow it.

Edited by Marcvs
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15 hours ago, Marcvs said:

about this: yes, dispelling the comet (ideally, with Kroak or a Slann) is great but I find myself sometimes skipping this IF I can discharge 3 salvos of Kroak's personal spell on a priority target + his comet and just use the stormcast wizard to cast mystic shield on the templar. Of course if the comet can hit multiple units AND important ones, it's a no brainer, but the dispel is not 100% sure and is as difficult as the third cast of the personal spell (needs a 6). In t2 I am generally casting the balewind vortex so the spell has range 16" and if I am facing an army which brings forward its important pieces (like the attack eels in my game against idoneth) 3xcelestial deliverance can dish more "concentrated" MWs than a comet. Of course you could also skip the mystic shield (if you have a lot of CP and the enemy has no strong shooting) and go for dispel (+ balewind) + kroak comet + 2xcelestial deliverance + everblaze

Oh btw, forgot to add to my previous posts: in all these games I got zero complaints about the interpretation of storm-winged activating multiple times in a turn. The only discussion was about the possibility of making a "standing still" pile in (go forward 1" and back to your original spot) when in base contact with multiple models, but a quick glance at the text of the rule was enough to clarify and allow it.

More aweome tips! As I said, I've not used Kroak yet so really want to dig into his subtleties. Re: Gaming - yes I should be free (or hopefully) one evening or two over the next few days for guidance :) Can PM steam username - its steam right?

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15 minutes ago, Turragor said:

More aweome tips! As I said, I've not used Kroak yet so really want to dig into his subtleties. Re: Gaming - yes I should be free (or hopefully) one evening or two over the next few days for guidance :) Can PM steam username - its steam right?

yes, it's steam + something for voice (normally discord)

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Hi all, time for another report! (I feel I am flooding the thread with those, apologies for that, hope they provide some added value for people considering Starcast).

Last Saturday I played in the TTS Tournament organised by the Troll Slayers club: 36 players, 3 games, 2000 points (no realms or terrain rules, ok realms' artifacts) ==> https://tabletop.to/tts-16th-may

I finished 13th with 2-1, which I feel is kind the "glass ceiling" of my experience + list, so I am pretty satisfied with the result. It went like this (not many screenshots this time due to pressure :D )

  1. vs Skaven in Focal Points (Major Victory): my opponent (here's the list) had a lot of clanrats supported by screaming bell, verminlord, warplightning cannon, archwarlock (if that's the name) and stormfiends. I deployed deep, outside the range of the cannon and he gave me initiative. I had a very luck t1 with great rolls and killed both the warlock and the cannon. Crazy stuff.
    20200516114856_1.jpg.3347a86e19c31b683d7dd83951edb729.jpg§

    From there the rats danced around my dragons for a while but ultimately were losing too many too quickly cause they couldn't stay inside the range of the battleshock immunity from the bell. And then there were none
    20200516131855_1.jpg.79de789c3ea5ccde33b836108248f6d3.jpg
     
  2. vs Chaos Ascendant in Scorched Earth (Major Defeat): my opponent was Anttu, the same Finnish ETC team captain from last tournament, this time with a very oppressive list with a lot of summoned pink horrors and Kairos -who did wonders to shut down my magic. The battleplan was also a difficult one (too many objectives) so I went into it 100% prepared for a loss. The frustrating thing is that this game was streamed by the Honest Wargamer and the StormKroak list didn't really shine on the occasion :( It could have gone a little better (I still think I would have lost) if I had gotten a 9" charge to engage his centre (Kairos, the Verminlord and the Kad'dai) but dices wouldn't have it even with the reroll, so I ended up swamped in the pink horrors. I am sure I also made some mistakes after that but morale was running low (+ the stress of the stream)
     
  3. vs Idoneth Deepkin in Starstrike (Major Victory): my opponent was playing an aggressive list with 2x6 attack eels in deepstrike. For once I could appreciate the value of experience, since I had played a similar one recently, so I knew how to build my castle :D
    20200516190502_1.jpg.5bdb92ff645e328906a7fa002c12effa.jpg

    The opponent gave me initative and I had rather underwhelming rolls this time. He came in from my right flank in his turn and (of course) deleted the liberators charging in one unit of eels. Once again, I had put the dog in pile-in distance so that they would be tied-in in case of a double turn. The double didn't happen, so I moved both dragons into his unit, using the celestant to screen for the charge of the second 6 eels unit. The one who had charged was deleted. The objectives in the meantime had fallen all very close in the centre. In his turn he charged the celestant with 5 eels (one had died to my magic + rain of stars) and the leviadon, both buffed by the Akhelian King (he spent 5 CPs on this). He managed to kill the general :( but he had spent too much to do this: he needed all the attacks from both units and the general had generated 8 MWs with his shield in the process. So next turn Kroak proceeded to delete what was left and the templar did a run for his back objective. He was left with a shark and a defensive unit and the game ended (not without a diplomatic incident caused by miscommunication: he complained that I should have proposed to end the game earlier because it was evident he couldn't win anymore, whereas I always thought that etquiette dictates that only the losing party can offer to concede)

All in all, a very satisfying tournament and I could see some payoff from increasing experience. I will play again in two weeks, although I do feel some pressure on bringing a different list (player base will be similar but on the other hand I feel I should keep playing with the same/similar list since I still haven't mastered it). Anyway, always open to discuss any of this and to provide more details!

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2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Hi all, time for another report! (I feel I am flooding the thread with those, apologies for that, hope they provide some added value for people considering Starcast).

Last Saturday I played in the TTS Tournament organised by the Troll Slayers club: 36 players, 3 games, 2000 points (no realms or terrain rules, ok realms' artifacts) ==> https://tabletop.to/tts-16th-may

I finished 13th with 2-1, which I feel is kind the "glass ceiling" of my experience + list, so I am pretty satisfied with the result. It went like this (not many screenshots this time due to pressure :D )

  1. vs Skaven in Focal Points (Major Victory): my opponent (here's the list) had a lot of clanrats supported by screaming bell, verminlord, warplightning cannon, archwarlock (if that's the name) and stormfiends. I deployed deep, outside the range of the cannon and he gave me initiative. I had a very luck t1 with great rolls and killed both the warlock and the cannon. Crazy stuff.
    20200516114856_1.jpg.3347a86e19c31b683d7dd83951edb729.jpg§

    From there the rats danced around my dragons for a while but ultimately were losing too many too quickly cause they couldn't stay inside the range of the battleshock immunity from the bell. And then there were none
    20200516131855_1.jpg.79de789c3ea5ccde33b836108248f6d3.jpg
     
  2. vs Chaos Ascendant in Scorched Earth (Major Defeat): my opponent was Anttu, the same Finnish ETC team captain from last tournament, this time with a very oppressive list with a lot of summoned pink horrors and Kairos -who did wonders to shut down my magic. The battleplan was also a difficult one (too many objectives) so I went into it 100% prepared for a loss. The frustrating thing is that this game was streamed by the Honest Wargamer and the StormKroak list didn't really shine on the occasion :( It could have gone a little better (I still think I would have lost) if I had gotten a 9" charge to engage his centre (Kairos, the Verminlord and the Kad'dai) but dices wouldn't have it even with the reroll, so I ended up swamped in the pink horrors. I am sure I also made some mistakes after that but morale was running low (+ the stress of the stream)
     
  3. vs Idoneth Deepkin in Starstrike (Major Victory): my opponent was playing an aggressive list with 2x6 attack eels in deepstrike. For once I could appreciate the value of experience, since I had played a similar one recently, so I knew how to build my castle :D
    20200516190502_1.jpg.5bdb92ff645e328906a7fa002c12effa.jpg

    The opponent gave me initative and I had rather underwhelming rolls this time. He came in from my right flank in his turn and (of course) deleted the liberators charging in one unit of eels. Once again, I had put the dog in pile-in distance so that they would be tied-in in case of a double turn. The double didn't happen, so I moved both dragons into his unit, using the celestant to screen for the charge of the second 6 eels unit. The one who had charged was deleted. The objectives in the meantime had fallen all very close in the centre. In his turn he charged the celestant with 5 eels (one had died to my magic + rain of stars) and the leviadon, both buffed by the Akhelian King (he spent 5 CPs on this). He managed to kill the general :( but he had spent too much to do this: he needed all the attacks from both units and the general had generated 8 MWs with his shield in the process. So next turn Kroak proceeded to delete what was left and the templar did a run for his back objective. He was left with a shark and a defensive unit and the game ended (not without a diplomatic incident caused by miscommunication: he complained that I should have proposed to end the game earlier because it was evident he couldn't win anymore, whereas I always thought that etquiette dictates that only the losing party can offer to concede)

All in all, a very satisfying tournament and I could see some payoff from increasing experience. I will play again in two weeks, although I do feel some pressure on bringing a different list (player base will be similar but on the other hand I feel I should keep playing with the same/similar list since I still haven't mastered it). Anyway, always open to discuss any of this and to provide more details!

haha I lost on stream too - its interesting, like a true performance environment where you are inclined to make a few more mistakes :P

Congrats on 2-1 too! I feel that is the kind of peak for the starcast school (and perhaps SCE as a whole) - as you mention.

As for list changes - I guess you know best. You are now the official expert on Kroakcast (as far as I know) so I cannot guide you with recommendations there :)

I do note you mention some of the times you do poorly is when meeting a stronger caster list - there's no way for us to be better than Kroak. The only other option is to opt for almost no magic (and then, what do you lose in the games where Kroak helps you win?).

The only path there (which I'm sure you're following) is to focus everything on the unit that beats kroak first round. However, when Kroak is a part of the barrage that does this, how do you accomplish this?

Personally, pre-Kroak I was always most in dread of a Nagash list, which I have had the good luck to never face. I feel with Kroak it's probably the same story then.

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On 5/18/2020 at 2:02 PM, Turragor said:

haha I lost on stream too - its interesting, like a true performance environment where you are inclined to make a few more mistakes :P

Congrats on 2-1 too! I feel that is the kind of peak for the starcast school (and perhaps SCE as a whole) - as you mention.

As for list changes - I guess you know best. You are now the official expert on Kroakcast (as far as I know) so I cannot guide you with recommendations there :)

I do note you mention some of the times you do poorly is when meeting a stronger caster list - there's no way for us to be better than Kroak. The only other option is to opt for almost no magic (and then, what do you lose in the games where Kroak helps you win?).

The only path there (which I'm sure you're following) is to focus everything on the unit that beats kroak first round. However, when Kroak is a part of the barrage that does this, how do you accomplish this?

Personally, pre-Kroak I was always most in dread of a Nagash list, which I have had the good luck to never face. I feel with Kroak it's probably the same story then.

Thanks man!

So about magic: yes, I am finding this one of the hardest matchups. The problem with focusing evrything is, as you say, that "everything" is mostly two/three spells (comet, comet, something through the umbral), and sometimes the opponent piece is justs too tough to be killed this way in one turn (Kairos, Lord of Change, Kroak, Nagash). In the present situation I feel that an anti-magic army might be interesting, but then I would not be playing Stadrakes

Also, final results for the pool phase of the French League are out. Concerning our internal comparison, classic shootcast went 4-1 (with one minor victory) so has a better showing. Ooor, it has *so far*, because, due to a series of lucky circumstances (players could submit two lists but can only go to the next phase with one if they are qualified in two pools) I will go to the playoff phase with my modest 4th place in the pool :D

I don't think I'll go too far there (it's direct elimination), but my first game (16th final) will be against Seraphon with Kroak + Saurus Knights and it's at least not impossible -for instance, I could have gone against a chaos ascendant list with 3 gaunt summoners and 30 pinks in the list 😶 Saurus Knights having 0 rend in all their profiles and plenty of attacks might be interesting but there's some scary spells (and bound endless spells) and the problem of shutting down my magic will present itself again. I will have the choice of who goes first and I am thinking of taking the initiative so as to have one magic phase before their first hero phase (and hence, without their +1 to unbind from the Sage Staff ability). It will depend also on the battleplan of course (it's random from a pool of 6)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
LEADERS
Skink Starseer (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Spell : Fiery Convocation
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell : Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- War Spear
- Artefact : Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell : Hand of Glory
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell : Tide of Serpents
UNITS
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)

 

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8 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Thanks man!

So about magic: yes, I am finding this one of the hardest matchups. The problem with focusing evrything is, as you say, that "everything" is mostly two/three spells (comet, comet, something through the umbral), and sometimes the opponent piece is justs too tough to be killed this way in one turn (Kairos, Lord of Change, Kroak, Nagash). In the present situation I feel that an anti-magic army might be interesting, but then I would not be playing Stadrakes

Also, final results for the pool phase of the French League are out. Concerning our internal comparison, classic shootcast went 4-1 (with one minor victory) so has a better showing. Ooor, it has *so far*, because, due to a series of lucky circumstances (players could submit two lists but can only go to the next phase with one if they are qualified in two pools) I will go to the playoff phase with my modest 4th place in the pool :D

I don't think I'll go too far there (it's direct elimination), but my first game (16th final) will be against Seraphon with Kroak + Saurus Knights and it's at least not impossible -for instance, I could have gone against a chaos ascendant list with 3 gaunt summoners and 30 pinks in the list 😶 Saurus Knights having 0 rend in all their profiles and plenty of attacks might be interesting but there's some scary spells (and bound endless spells) and the problem of shutting down my magic will present itself again. I will have the choice of who goes first and I am thinking of taking the initiative so as to have one magic phase before their first hero phase (and hence, without their +1 to unbind from the Sage Staff ability). It will depend also on the battleplan of course (it's random from a pool of 6)

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Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
LEADERS
Skink Starseer (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Spell : Fiery Convocation
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell : Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- War Spear
- Artefact : Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell : Hand of Glory
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell : Tide of Serpents
UNITS
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)

 

Cool that you go through!

As I've said a bunch of times now, I still need to get some Kroak experience in the list. However, even were I not playing Kroak, that first matchup would be very touch and go depending on scenario and as always luck.

I would probably rely on stardrakes a lot. Once enemy magic is dampened (as you would hope with starcast). As roadblocks mostly. I've not met new Serpahon and I haven't fully studied their tome, but I think bar magic (main threat) and maybe luck with his big hero and mw artefact, this army cannot hurt your drakes.

I think that the fact it is coalesced is really good for you. Starborne is more problematic v starcast (again - no experience here, just playing through in my head).

I might try to remove their small heroes r1. You have to get Kroak/casters down. I can't see an advantage to giving away r1.

Ofc you could deploy v deep and hope to have his army sufficiently pruned r2 or 3 but then you will have an uphill struggle with objective points - depending on the scenario.

So the list isn't impossible - it shouldn't be easy for your opponent anyway. It should be FUN and at least it's not a very hard matchup (30 pinks - yes haha) for the first elimination round.

Good luck when it rolls around!

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So for those who are curious, I played the 1/16 elimination match yesterday against the seraphon list mentioned before

Spoiler

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
LEADERS
Skink Starseer (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Spell : Fiery Convocation
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell : Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- War Spear
- Artefact : Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell : Hand of Glory
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell : Tide of Serpents
UNITS
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)

Tl;dr: I won :) + the shootcast list lost to KO so I am now the only SCE player still in the tournament and Starcast is the best performing SCE list in a 100 players event (...on TTS) 🐉

Coming to the actual game, I am pretty happy of how it went, specifically because the strategy I had thought in my mind in preparation for the game worked -with a little help from the dices of course.

The main threat in my mind were the bound endless spell. If I allowed my opponent to put down 4 bound endless spell and to have them moving around the whole game I would have had 0 chances (because even trying to dispel those would have costed me so much magic output). How to avoid this was the main question I tried to address with my strategy. What I came up with was a little bit different with my usual Starcast approach (play very defensively): not only I decided to take initiative in t1, but I also opted to shoot my dragons as forward as possible to get all enemy wizards into the -1 to cast debuff area. As an aside, I always tend to forget this part of the Stardrake warscroll. This time it was the "man" of the match.

20200525214350_1.jpg.8801ae2c9d30529cc982d1b386c7fc6d.jpg

The thinking was that the dragons were pretty safe from the attacks of the knights APART from the buff which gives them 1 MW per 6 to wound (with 7 attacks per knights + bonuses to hit, that's a lot). I decided to take the risk and the dice-gods were pleased: I got both comets off (no other spell from kroak) and the rain of stars were quite effective: a Skink starpriest and the Starseer died in my t1. Also, the carnosaur was hevily hit and this led my opponent to what I think was a mistake: he did not go in with the carnosaur on the templar. One unit of knights was not enough to kill it. Anyway, the best thing was that with the -2 to cast (and the +1 to unbind of Kroak) he was not able to put down endless spells. His Kroak dished some MW but nothing game-changing.

He got a double turn and used it to disengage and use the knights to grab my back objectives (having decided to keep the carno back to protect his own). Again his magic phase was disappointing, also because I used the Incantor's scroll to unbind his balewind vortex. The unbuffed knights proved to be much less of a threat: the templar dispatched those on one of my objectives and kroak, incantor and liberators retook the other. Magic continued flowing (the everblaze went down again as he had to dispel it in his t1 to avoid a further -1 to cast). The carno died and the celestant engaged the last unit of knights on his objective. Kroak was his last hero standing but he was running out of models so he conceded at the end of t3.

20200525231943_1.jpg.1ff545cb0f6b054e3c348830b866b624.jpg

Though I am very happy with the outcome, I know that this was a lucky matchup. To prove the point, in the 1/8 round I will meet a pretty classic Tzeentch list in Eternal Conflagration + Changehost (and 20 pinks). Having already played against a similar list I have a better understanding of things to watch out for, but still, the teleport + auto charge (with destiny dices) of the pinks in t1 + the board control will make it extremely difficult for me to come out of my deployment zone. At least he has no Gaunt lol

Spoiler

Tzeentch - Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

LEADERS

Lord of Change (380)

- General

- Command Trait : Coruscating Flames

- Artefact : Aura of Mutability

- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

Fatemaster (120)

- Artefact : Shroud of Warpflame

The Changeling (120)

- Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch

 

UNITS

20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)

3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

 

BATTALIONS

Changehost (180)

 

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Prismatic Palisade (30)

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

 

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23 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Though I am very happy with the outcome, I know that this was a lucky matchup. To prove the point, in the 1/8 round I will meet a pretty classic Tzeentch list in Eternal Conflagration + Changehost (and 20 pinks). Having already played against a similar list I have a better understanding of things to watch out for, but still, the teleport + auto charge (with destiny dices) of the pinks in t1 + the board control will make it extremely difficult for me to come out of my deployment zone. At least he has no Gaunt lol

  Reveal hidden contents

Tzeentch - Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

 

LEADERS

 

Lord of Change (380)

 

- General

 

- Command Trait : Coruscating Flames

 

- Artefact : Aura of Mutability

 

- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

 

Fatemaster (120)

 

- Artefact : Shroud of Warpflame

 

The Changeling (120)

 

- Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch

 

 

 

UNITS

 

20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)

 

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)

 

3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

 

3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

 

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

 

10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

 

10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

 

 

 

BATTALIONS

 

Changehost (180)

 

 

 

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

 

Prismatic Palisade (30)

 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

 

Libs on your flanks ? If Drakes are bogged down, they'll only be for a short time, since you can fly away ?

 

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1 minute ago, Maturin said:

Libs on your flanks ? If Drakes are bogged down, they'll only be for a short time, since you can fly away ?

Yes, using all the liberators for screening is surely one of the lessons learned. I just have to see how to do this, while still getting the lookout sir on the small heroes (because flamers) and not putting those too close to the frontline :/

The problem with flying away is that, with the brims and the opponent opting to kill the most far-away pinks and replace them with blues (+ the big bases of the dragons), there might be little space to actually land (at least, in order to be useful). This was the situation when I played this matchup (different player) last time. I had opted to put the dragons together to have enough punch to kill all the pinks in one go (and at least avoid the repopping with the banner) but then in my turn I could only move to the sides (or backwards). Anyway, I am not saying that this is an unsolvable problem, I will think more about it before the game and we'll see what I can do.

20200418104759_1.jpg.c7245e3f356839ab533de684d985f01d.jpg

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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

Though I am very happy with the outcome, I know that this was a lucky matchup.

But it sounds like you played it perfectly :D great job!

57 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Anyway, I am not saying that this is an unsolvable problem, I will think more about it before the game and we'll see what I can do.

When is the next match played? And when do you find out the scenario? This one is very scenario/opponent skill dependent - I think that is where you want the most luck here. I have beaten a similar list mainly due to the scenario.

 

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48 minutes ago, Turragor said:

But it sounds like you played it perfectly :D great job!

When is the next match played? And when do you find out the scenario? This one is very scenario/opponent skill dependent - I think that is where you want the most luck here. I have beaten a similar list mainly due to the scenario.

 

Thanks :)

I will have to arrange the time with my opponent once all the 1/16 games have been played. It will probably be sometimes later this week or next Monday.

I am afraid the player is a very good one, but most of them are at this stage with only 16 left in the tournament. The battleplan is drawn only at the beginning of the game from a fixed pool which goes as follows:

  1. Knife to the Heart
  2. Places of Arcane Power
  3. Starstrike
  4. Shifting Objectives
  5. Focal Points
  6. Total Commitment

In this matchup I think that Places of Arcane Power or Knife to the Heart would slightly increase my chances, with Starstrike being always nice for Starcast (due point scoring being delayed and heavier emphasis on later turns). Shifting Objectives and Focal Points are not great due to the possibility to string Pink Horrors across two objectives. Total Commitment is the worst (I so hope to see this disapper in the next GHB: can I keep my ONLY allegiance ability please?)

I am also wondering about the sequencing of Cavernous Jaws and the splitting from Horrors. So far, my tzeentch opponents have always maintained that I first have to resolve the three bites and splitting only happens afterwards. Meaning that I cannot try and break coherency unless I am eating brimstones. So far I have accepted this, but I might try to propose a different interpretation on the basis of the wording of Cavernous Jaws ( "For each bite") which suggests that each bite resolves independently.

(edit) PS: among the last 16 players there are 4 Seraphons and 4 Tzeentch (+ a Legion of Chaos Ascendant full of pinks and Gaunts)
 

Edited by Marcvs
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26 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Jaws ( "For each bite") which suggests that each bite resolves independently.

I mean, I play it (and have never heard issues with) as if it is resolved independently.

When you attack with claws and hammer - multiple attacks - wounds are allocated after, then models are slain and removed fully in opponents control. Cavernous jaws doesn't play exactly by those rules/that flow.

Wording wise its - pick one or more (so you can try to bite the same model 3 times - ergo you resolve before you choose subsequent bite targets) targets after pile in and before main attacks.


You pick the target and roll - if its above wounds stat on warscroll the target is slain. Removed right away. & Pinks split when slain. Then you would repeat.

I mean they will prob challenge (because it means they've to play so much more carefully) and itll then need TO (or FAQ). But it is a sequence. It ends. Then you can do it X times.

I'd bring it up before the match I think so at least you are both on the same page :P

Edited by Turragor
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36 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I am also wondering about the sequencing of Cavernous Jaws and the splitting from Horrors. So far, my tzeentch opponents have always maintained that I first have to resolve the three bites and splitting only happens afterwards. Meaning that I cannot try and break coherency unless I am eating brimstones. So far I have accepted this, but I might try to propose a different interpretation on the basis of the wording of Cavernous Jaws ( "For each bite") which suggests that each bite resolves independently.

I"ve always rolled three dices but one at a time only. I choose this mini, I roll. Alive ? I continue on him. Dead ? I choose another one. That's why I usually like to act with the dragon last, if his units can't outright kill me. So I can try to break his unit apart :)

 

13 minutes ago, Turragor said:

You pick the target and roll - if its above wounds stat on warscroll the target is slain. Removed right away. & Pinks split when slain. Then you would repeat.

I mean they will prob challenge (because it means they've to play so much more carefully) and itll then need TO (or FAQ). But it is a sequence. It ends. Then you can do it X times.

Sorry I do'nt get what you mean here what do you think they'll complain about.

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3 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Sorry I do'nt get what you mean here what do you think they'll complain about.

I can answer this from experience: they will say that all the target of the bites must be declared at the same time, so that you cannot target models who are not yet on the table when you activate the Jaws OR that the effect of the Jaws only resolve at the end of the three bites, so the targets will only be removed at the end.

Edit: the good thing about running a league format is that I have now sent the question to the TOs and will have an answer before the game.

Edited by Marcvs
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Just now, Maturin said:

Sorry I do'nt get what you mean here what do you think they'll complain about.

It's because the Tzeentch players are waiting until 3 models have been eaten then placing whatever they can via split from those 3 at once. Which means:

42 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I cannot try and break coherency unless I am eating brimstones.

But if the Tzeentch player has to place after each model is slain, they've to be more careful with how they setup their unit the entire match when a stardrake is near the pinks.

It increases the pressure on them, and the chances of error and losing a chunk of horrors to battleshock

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1 hour ago, Maturin said:

I do get it now, thanks.

Well if they do that, it's clearly anti-game. I wouldn't like to play against someone like that

I think they maybe just misunderstand what is happening - before I decide if they're trying to misinterpret.

Its normal that most damage in the game is taken at once after multiple weapons have been rolled. Then the opponent removes casualties at once.

I have played OBR and Tzeentch which both have replace on death mechanics and on both occasions they were okay with replacing as each bite roll was completed before the next was rolled.

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