CrimsonKing Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 So Ive got a nice variety of Chaos Mortal/Daemon/Beastmen units all Khorne (as much as can be) and wanted to make a good self-reinforcing 1000 pt list for next weekend. At my disposal is the following: BT Insensate 10 bloodletters 5 flesh hounds Lord on Jugger Lord on foot Skar bloodwrath 5 knights (ensorclled) 10 Khorne warriors of chaos ( shields ) 10 marauders ( shields ) 10 warhounds 3 Spawn 10 beastmen gors ( shields ) Karzak one eye And in production is a custom bloodsecrator, wrathmongers and gorebeast chariot. As for the unit sizes, yes all minimum atm but aside from bloodletters, spawn and warhounds I could double each unit with what's in my unbuilt pile, question is where to start. As a base Im happy with my Warriors and Knights, my Juggerlord had a poor showing recently a few games with his attacks, and I need more synergies and AoS tricks, hence the bloodbound additions. Could I pull off a small model count army? Bloodthirster, bloodsecrator, lord on jugger, bloodletters, warriors, wrathmongers? Is there any good way to reinforce beastmen to better intergrate into the rest of my army? (They cannot take god keywords) Any input is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBeast Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hmmm. Without buying a fair few more models your battleline units are the: - Chaos Warriors - Chaos Marauders - Bloodletters - Gors If you run the Lord on foot as your general as the Slaves to Darkness lord you'd unlock the Knights as a Battleline unit too. You could point it all up and probably field at least 2000 points. Your main problem is going to be that none of the units are really big enough to be effective - warriors and bloodletters need to be at least 20 models and the gors and marauders probably need to be even bigger. By "marking" the StD units with the Khorne keyword you'll get a bit more punch out of your units using the Bloodsecrator and command abilities. Khorne mortals/Bloodbound/Khorne Daemons really need to maximise the synergies, so you'd want to add the characters that throw out buffs to all Khorne units - the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker. One of the combos I'm looking forward to running is Bloodletters + Bloodsecrator + Bloodstoker + Wrathmongers for maximum buffs. Also have a think about build the Skullreapers instead of the Wrathmongers. They're a bit more multi purpose and can tear through large units pretty effectively. Wrathmongers are great for taking out big models and nasty characters. The Bloodthirster looks great, can't wait to see the rest of the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchief Varard Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Wrathmongers over skullreapers imo, everything khorne is choppy already, wrathmongers just offer so much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 I wasn't aware that taking the lord opened those faction specific battleline... Thought I needed the whole force as StD, so thats good! *EDIT* nevermind I wanted to do both Skullreapers and Wrathmongers from one kit but their legs outsize any forsaken/warrior legs so I'm copying the back plates, making both torso sets and having them swappable, but as for AoS special rules id rather a unit that makes the enemy kill themselves then my own unit killing themselves! If I was to double unit sizes I would start with my warriors/knights, as I'm not too keen on running cheap blobs at the moment. If I could take a nasty fast army that would be my goal: Lord on foot -general Thirster of IR Bloodsecrator Knights Knights Fleshhounds Warhounds Gorebeast Chariot *EDIT* above list doesn't work without allegiance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 4 hours ago, CrimsonKing said: I wasn't aware that taking the lord opened those faction specific battleline... Thought I needed the whole force as StD, so thats good! No, don't listen to him. You DO need Slaves to Darkness allegiance to take Knights and Marauder Horsemen as battleline. Don't know where he got his information from. All unlocked battleline units at a minimum require a particular sub-faction allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The core of "list building" in AoS is building up decent synergies between units. If you want to do Khorne (as I have too) I personally believe you need to weigh your army towards either Mortal or Daemon to get the most out of them. At 1000 points everything should have the Khorne keyword, beyond that you can relax it a little. Generally if you go Khorne Mortal, the bulk of your leaders should come from the Bloodbound lists as they provide the best synergies currently. 19 hours ago, CrimsonKing said: Bloodthirster, bloodsecrator, lord on jugger, bloodletters, warriors, wrathmongers? I'd not bother with the jugger - you can't really use the speed as it stands as nothing else has a 8" move which will leave him either stranded or bimbling along with everything else. Bloodstoker could be useful for boosting the units. The Wrathmongers will give you quite a bit of punch and quite nice against enemy monsters. I think you'd actually be better off with Blood Warriors rather than Chaos Warriors as they have more damage potential for the same points & wounds. 2 hours ago, someone2040 said: All unlocked battleline units at a minimum require a particular sub-faction allegiance. This too Don't forget though that if you've picked a sub-faction you won't gain the GA allegiance traits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 48 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Don't forget though that if you've picked a sub-faction you won't gain the GA allegiance traits This has been FAQed, you can choose between sub-faction and GA allegiance traits and if the sub-faction doesnt have any the choice is easy. ? See the Generals Handbook FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, Andreas said: This has been FAQed, you can choose between sub-faction and GA allegiance traits and if the sub-faction doesnt have any the choice is easy. ? Must have missed that somewhere - where about's was that done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The Generals Handbook FAQ that can be easiest found in the app. "You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBeast Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I think I have been misunderstood here - I just meant that from the models that @CrimsonKing said he had, the StD Chaos Lord would open up those Battleline units. As opposed to the Mighty Lord of Khorne from the Bloodbound list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 45 minutes ago, Andreas said: The Generals Handbook FAQ that can be easiest found in the app. Unless the app is different to the PDF that's not quite what I meant. Lets say you're running an army with a Lord of Chaos and two units of Chaos Knights. If you go with "Slaves to Darkness" as your allegiance (valid as all your units have that as a keyword) then you can use the knights as Battleline, however you don't get the Chaos allegiance traits - your allegiance is StD and it needs to be Chaos for those abilities. If you decide to pick Chaos as your allegiance then you do get the traits but cannot count the knights as battleline - you allegiance is Chaos and doesn't fulfil the requirement in the Generals Handbook for that entry. 11 minutes ago, BloodBeast said: I think I have been misunderstood here - I just meant that from the models that @CrimsonKing said he had, the StD Chaos Lord would open up those Battleline units. As opposed to the Mighty Lord of Khorne from the Bloodbound list. All of your army needs to have the the StD keyword in order to pick that as your allegiance, having the Chaos Lord as your general still requires every other unit to have StD keywords in order to chose that as you allegiance (so you couldn't include beastmen for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 No I understod what you ment but you can write a SoD list with Chaos Knights as battleline but at the start of the battle choose Chaos allegiance. It has been discussed in numerous topics for example the Ironjawz one and confirmed by GW that this is the intention on facebook, in the FAQ and directly to people with GW connections I am sure it has been discussed one or more of the podcasts directly involved in the Generals Handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 54 minutes ago, Andreas said: No I understod what you ment but you can write a SoD list with Chaos Knights as battleline but at the start of the battle choose Chaos allegiance. It has been discussed in numerous topics for example the Ironjawz one and confirmed by GW that this is the intention on facebook, in the FAQ and directly to people with GW connections I am sure it has been discussed one or more of the podcasts directly involved in the Generals Handbook. I stand corrected - have just found it in the FAQ's on a second look (wasn't where I was looking originally). Does look like the traits are handled differently (although it looks like you could stuffed on artefacts?). Although I know it's been spoken about elsewhere I'm always very cautious about getting it from somewhere other than the official FAQ's (I include FB in this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I understand. The has been a very hot topic but I think it is finally settled. The Ironjawz question that got confirmed is that you can build a Ironjawz list and then chose the rampaging destroyer battle trait which is a quite strong combo. I wasnt sure it was going to get rules that way. But I think it is a stop gap decition untill everyone gets their own battle trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 So it is good to clarify these things! Im glad this thread can be of greater service! In my case its pretty lame running only StD without some of the better buffing models like stoker/secrator. Warriors vs. Blood warriors I understand the benefits but for now running what I have makes more sense. Should I shelve my beasts for good? I prefer them over marauders for their own special rule but perhaps Khorne marauders with the right synergies are better off... Bloodthirster Bloodsecrator Letters Warriors Fleshhounds Knights 980 pts Wonder if the bloodsecrator can get close to the charge of my 3 fast units, starts 24" 1 turn to move 20" then plant banner next hero phase. Only works against a charging enemy I suppose, unless I have bigger blobs to keep in the bubble. Also it was said that a Juggerlord's speed vs. an army of foot sloggers is useless, but surely it can help him choose targets more effectively or re-deploy later on? It also let's him position more effectively to get the charge on his own turn, crucial for his mortal wounds ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 15 hours ago, CrimsonKing said: Warriors vs. Blood warriors I understand the benefits but for now running what I have makes more sense. Agreed - if your opponent is happy you can always play them as Blood Warriors for a couple of games to see which you prefer - could be you prefer the extra mortal wound protection regular warriors gives you! 15 hours ago, CrimsonKing said: Should I shelve my beasts for good? I prefer them over marauders for their own special rule but perhaps Khorne marauders with the right synergies are better off... I think beasts work best as a proper herd, however I'm currently looking at working out a doubles army with Bloodbound & Beasts for next year so plan to do some experimentation! 14 hours ago, CrimsonKing said: Also it was said that a Juggerlord's speed vs. an army of foot sloggers is useless, but surely it can help him choose targets more effectively or re-deploy later on? It also let's him position more effectively to get the charge on his own turn, crucial for his mortal wounds ability I'd not say useless more that he's more effective with some form of support (same actually applies with most heroes). In fairness you do have some support in the form of your hounds and knights so you could be OK - think it's like a lot of things, it's best to run the army and see how it performs under your command. I would say that I'd not want to rely on the charge ability either, there's only a 50% chance of it triggering and then it only does D3 mortal wounds to each unit. It's not enough to kill anything outright so it's more of an added bonus to soften the opposition up. If you use one of the Battalions that improves this then I think this is where it starts to build up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 My bloodsecrator in progress Beast Chariot! And yes those extra saves are good! Liking the idea of marauders more due to their groups of 60pts filling holes in list building as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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