Vision and Flyers

[ACBelMutie]

Hello

We are having some questions about the rules about flying units when there is an obstacle covering them. A friend says that if a unit fly, it can be targeted  even if there is an obstable in the middel, so the questions are:

1. Can a unit of Castigators shoot a unit of Reapers if they are behind a Citadel Wood?
2. Can Alarielle (who fly too) shoot a unit of Reapers if they are behind a Citadel Wood?
3. Can a Guardian of Souls cast a spell to a unit of Reapers if they are behind a Citadel Wood?
4. Can Arkhan cast Mistic shield to a unit of skeletons if they are behind a Citadel Wood?
5. Can Arkhan cast Mistic shield to a unit of Reapers if they are behind a Citadel Wood?
6. Can Arkhan stay over a tree of a Citadel Wood?
7. Can a Zombi climb a tree of a Citadel Wood?

Greetings

[EMMachine]

The first 5 questions are more about the rule "Overgrown". In all 5 cases the answer is "yes" because of the sentense "The scenery rule does not apply if either model can fly."

Either is in this case either the model that shoots or uses a spell or the target of it.

In case of 7. Here is the FAQ points for this:

Quote

Q: Are models allowed to climb a terrain feature such as a
Fortress Wall?
A: For simplicity and ease of play, the rules allow any
model to climb any terrain feature. If you wish, you can
only allow models to move to places that they could
reach ‘in real life’, but it will require a certain amount of
common sense in order to make such a house rule work.

Quote

Q: If the height of the terrain feature exceeds a model’s
movement, can it be climbed over multiple turns? Can a model
run up a terrain feature?
A: Yes to both questions. A model may need to spend
several turns climbing an especially high terrain feature
(you will need to remember how far it has climbed each
turn, and measure distances and visibility to or from
that model as if it were in that location).

 

[EMMachine]

19 hours ago, ACBelMutie said:

I have another question about flyers.  Lets talk about a Cairn Wraith for example. If he is behind a house, he can be attacked by spells or shooting, but can he be targeted if he is behind Prismatic Palisade?

The 2018 Generals rules for terrain says a terrain with rule number 1 prevent line of sight, so a Cairn Wraith behind that terrain is still targetable?

Greetings

You have to look if the rule blocking line of sight does mention if flyers ignore it. The overgrown rule (thats also in the generals Handbook 2019) mentions it and the Prismatic Palisade doesn't.

So thePalisade blocks line of sight for flyers too.

Flying doesn't ignore line of sight by default, only if the rule that grands a line of sight block states that fliers ignore it.

The house would also block if you can't see the Banshee behind, because you still follow the normal line of sight rules, that you have to see the target. There isn't a special rule that states, that flying models ignores all terrain, they ignore terrain only in case of moving.

Overgrown is a special case because it blocks line of sight even if you would physically see the model.

Edited January 9, 2020 by EMMachine

[ACBelMutie]

Thanks for the answers!

Greetings

[ACBelMutie]

I have another question about flyers.  Lets talk about a Cairn Wraith for example. If he is behind a house, he can be attacked by spells or shooting, but can he be targeted if he is behind Prismatic Palisade?

The 2018 Generals rules for terrain says a terrain with rule number 1 prevent line of sight, so a Cairn Wraith behind that terrain is still targetable?

Greetings

[ACBelMutie]

I'm a bit confused at this moment. You said " The scenery rule does not apply if either model can fly", so a flying unit behind a Sylvaneth wood can be targeted by a shooter or a mage anyway, why can't it be targeted if he is behind a house? Is there any special rule for a behemoth/monsters (for line of view)?

Greetings and thanks for the answers

[willange]

52 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

I'm a bit confused at this moment. You said " The scenery rule does not apply if either model can fly", so a flying unit behind a Sylvaneth wood can be targeted by a shooter or a mage anyway, why can't it be targeted if he is behind a house? Is there any special rule for a behemoth/monsters (for line of view)?

Greetings and thanks for the answers

I think you're confusing the "overgrown" rules that applies to Citadel Wood (and sometimes other terrain when it is given that rule) and the concept of line-of-sight.  Citadel Wood has a rule on it's warscroll stating that you can't see through more than 1mm of the terrain, but that rule also states that it doesn't apply to flyers.  Hence, you could usually see a banshee through the wood.  

If however the banshee is totally blocked from physical view behind a tree that is part of the citadel wood terrain (meaning you look down from your model and cannot physically see the banshee model because it's blocked by the tree), then that banshee would still be out of sight.  So what @EMMachine means is that while flyers are exempt from the Overgrown rule (and other rules with similar wording), flyers can still be out of line-of-sight if you can't physically see them.  That means that if I set down a cereal box on my table and call it terrain and stick a grundstok gunhauler behind it, then the cereal box is going to block  line-of-sight to that gunhauler because models won't be able to physically see through the cereal box and vice-versa.

Edited January 9, 2020 by willange

[ACBelMutie]

1 hour ago, willange said:

I think you're confusing the "overgrown" rules that applies to Citadel Wood (and sometimes other terrain when it is given that rule) and the concept of line-of-sight.  Citadel Wood has a rule on it's warscroll stating that you can't see through more than 1mm of the terrain, but that rule also states that it doesn't apply to flyers.  Hence, you could usually see a banshee through the wood.  

If however the banshee is totally blocked from physical view behind a tree that is part of the citadel wood terrain (meaning you look down from your model and cannot physically see the banshee model because it's blocked by the tree), then that banshee would still be out of sight.  So what @EMMachine means is that while flyers are exempt from the Overgrown rule (and other rules with similar wording), flyers can still be out of line-of-sight if you can't physically see them.  That means that if I set down a cereal box on my table and call it terrain and stick a grundstok gunhauler behind it, then the cereal box is going to block  line-of-sight to that gunhauler because models won't be able to physically see through the cereal box and vice-versa.

OK, I underestand. Thanks a lot both of us for the replies.

So a Banshee can hide behind a prismatic palisade, tree, house or rock to prevent shooting, but if she is in a Sylvaneth Wood, she can be shot.  If a terrain feature has the rule "Overgrown", it applyes like a citadel wood, so a flying unit can be shot ony in the case it is visible. Thanks for the info.

Greetings