Question about painting big models

[PiotrW]

Hello, guys

Lately, I'm assembling models without painting them - because I decided that I'd never get to play any wargames if I insisted on painting every model I assemble Still, I plan on painting some of them later on... So far, I've been assembling mostly small models of warriors: SCE, Melusai, Skavens... But I hope to move to assembling some of the bigger and more complicated models, like Skaven catapults / warp lightning cannons, the Screaming Bell, DoK's Cauldron of Blood etc. And so, here's a question:

Is it actually possible to have these models fully assembled and painted later? They are big and look rather complicated. I wonder if painting them wouldn't turn to be tricky? Maybe I should paint at least some of their components (like the crew) before the assembly?

Any advice in such matters?

[Overread]

It depends on the model, your skill, your painting style and what you want to go for in a painting scheme. 

Sometimes its just easier to paint it in parts. The Daughters of Khaine Cauldron/Shrine is one such example. You can reach pretty much all the parts if its assembled, however its a lot easier to reach areas like the power hand in the rear if its not fully assembled. 

Note that when it comes to riders these are always easier to paint if separate as you can focus on the model - take the riders on the Cauldron on the steps; its a lot easier to paint them if they aren't glued down to the steps.

 

 

With some other larger models you have to paint them in parts. I can't think of a good AoS example off the top of my head; but have a look at the Eldar Vehicles. Several of them have cabins which have a plastic dome over them; you can't paint the interior and the driver without doing it before assembling them. OF course that example also shows where style and choice comes into it. Since some people choose to paint the canopy and cover with a pattern rather than paint the interior at all. 

 

So your style also comes into play; simpler styles can sometimes let you get away with assembling it all first because you don't need to pick out fine details and vary colours as much. A more complex style might well need too. 

 

 

I would hit up youtube and find some painting videos of hte models in question and also dry fit (hold parts together) yourself and see what you feel is practical. 

[flemingmma]

I agree with the above, if its a big ol monster say a great unclean one or some such feel free to assemble the whole thing just be aware some bits will be hard to reach, if its a catapult or such like assemble the war machine but keep the crew separate

[PiotrW]

All right, thanks!

One more question: is it hard to assemble a plastic model after it's been painted? Would a plastic glue (which melts plastic parts together) work with the said plastic parts being covered in primer and paint?

[Overread]

33 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

All right, thanks!

One more question: is it hard to assemble a plastic model after it's been painted? Would a plastic glue (which melts plastic parts together) work with the said plastic parts being covered in primer and paint?

It depends on the join area really and where its located.

A few thoughts to consider:

1) The part you are painting might be easier to paint if you drill and put a little metal rod into it or otherwise secure the part to something you can hold and stand the model with. A metal rod in a cork etc.... This can give you an easy handle you can hold whilst working on the part. If you drill into the mounting area it won't even cause you any problems. 

2) Once painted carefully scrape paint away from the join area. Do this for all connecting parts. Even if you're careful you might still get some primer or paint on the join area, so easier not to worry and make the last stage simply cleaning that region. If you use plastic glue, as you noted, it want's to melt the joining surface; whilst superglues form a gripping bond between the two surfaces, so you want material to material (in this case plastic to plastic) not with a paint layer otherwise whilst the superglue might hold really tight to the paint, the paint won't hold half as tight to the model and thus the bond will break. 

3) Plastic glue works by melting the plastic; if the join area is very covered over on all sides then you can easily use plastic glue and any melted glue won't be visible, because the part is covering the join. This might be a, for example, a peg in the middle of a plate of armour, the peg being the part you apply glue too. The plate of armour then covers the whole join area and hides it from view.

4) If the join area is more visible or the covering isn't very thick/wide then you might use superglue instead. Score the join area with a blade (to improve the join quality). Superglue (thinly spread) won't spill out like melted plastic. 

5) If you get in a mess STOP. Separate the parts and let them fully cure (this might take up to a day for some glues). Note many glues will go tacky and firm long before they are fully cured. So do leave it a good many hours! This ensures that the glue sets firm and is much easier to scrape off with a blade. If you try scraping wet or tacky glues you will just end up in a total mess of everything (esp with plastic glue as any tacky region might be hiding still melted glue and that, when scraped, then spreads over fresh plastic and melts it).

So stop, wait and then scrape clean and assess the situation. 

[RuneBrush]

13 hours ago, PiotrW said:

All right, thanks!

One more question: is it hard to assemble a plastic model after it's been painted? Would a plastic glue (which melts plastic parts together) work with the said plastic parts being covered in primer and paint?

Overread has made some great suggestions in his post 🙂

My own answer to this is "it depends" - which is super unhelpful!  Plastic glue will melt paint (acrylic paint is by definition a type of plastic), and generally the bond between plastic -> paint <-> paint <- plastic will be weaker than straight plastic <-> plastic. 

My normal solution is to put some blu tack* on both surfaces before I undercoat, that way I'm just gluing onto bare plastic.  I did this on my Mortis Engine recently and the heads of the unit of Necromunda Enforcers I'm currently painting.  For situations where I don't have a plastic to plastic connection I tend to use superglue.

I always use superglue if I've put a brass rod into the model to help hold it too - for example my Enforcers have a brass rod glued into one foot so I could paint them separate to the bases.  When I glue them onto the (painted) bases, I'll use superglue to fix them in place.  One top tip is once you've superglued something in place, put that model on a window sill with the window open a little.  The fumes from superglue will often cause "misting" around the model, however a gentle breeze will reduce (or eliminate) this.  It's also a lot easier to squeeze some superglue onto a plastic lid of some kind and then use a cocktail stick to put it onto the model.  This gives you a lot more control than just the nozzle does - and also makes it easier to keep the nozzle clean.

 

 

* I'd recommend White Tack rather than Blu Tack as it's a lot less greasy

[PiotrW]

Thanks for all of the advice, guys!

So, you say that melted plastic can spill out onto the surroundings areas of the model? Hmmm... Alright, please tell me, then: how much plastic glue do you use? When joining two parts, do you need to cover the whole area being joined - or just a portion of it? Do you put glue on just one of the parts, or both parts being joined?

Overall - painting aside - do you guys use plastic glue or superglue for the models? Until now, I've used superglue, but it definitely does "mist" the models (especially the brand I use now). I purchased some plastic glue to try out, I wonder whether it'll work better for me...

[RuneBrush]

6 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Overall - painting aside - do you guys use plastic glue or superglue for the models? Until now, I've used superglue, but it definitely does "mist" the models (especially the brand I use now). I purchased some plastic glue to try out, I wonder whether it'll work better for me...

Always plastic glue on plastic models.  The bond is significantly stronger as it melts the plastic together and is absorbed into the plastic (so no extra volume) whereas superglue actually adds a later of thickness.  The other benefit of plastic glue is that once dry, you can sand/file it, so it's a good way to sort out any gaps in the model.

[Weazel]

With any glue less is more, especially so if you don't want to get any glue on your paint job. When you add glue it's going to be more of a droplet than a thin film, so when you press the pieces together it compresses the droplet and all the excess is going to spill over. However you don't want to skimp on it either. You kinda develop a feel for it once you start using plastic glue/cement, but I recommend practicing with unpainted models first.