Let's Chat: Stormsire's Cursebreakers

[Skyeline]

@riddlesworth how do you feel about the mileage you're getting out of Chain Lightning? Based on the breakdown you wrote up top, I'm assuming you're happy with it given that your major call out was center of attention.

Prior to an impromptu break I've have to take from underworlds Chain Lightning was a card I was struggling to justify keeping in the deck when it was squared up against other offensive spells (Cry of Thunder and Abasoth's Withering in particular). Even Rend The Earth seemed more appealing to me since with a single channeling upgrade it becomes easier to get off for a more reliable effect.

 

[Desidus]

 

On 11/12/2018 at 1:19 AM, riddlesworth said:

On that note, won my first glass this weekend! 14 players.

Here's the deck i took: https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N6,N7,N4,243,257,284,291,L24,N319,N371,N11,N12,347,348,N389,N27,N499,N503,368,N25,420,424,272,235,329,331,N539,N23,N504,N400,N442,N473

 

Plays to a flex strategy. If i need to play defensive vs super aggro i can, then take the fight to them with upgrades. I can also be aggressive into defensive bands while scoring glory and upgrading on the way in.

 

Game 1 vs Nighthaunt - win 11-12, loss 11-8, win 18-7

Ive been playing against Nighthahnt a lot since release and they seem really popular. The briar queen is a terror when upgraded and my opponent was a good player. He pushed me in the first round to where i only had ammis left and in the round i lost, it was because his briar queen got a shot onto averon before i could soultrap him. However, like all 7 model warbands, they bleed glory and any objectives around killing are grand against them because its a target rich environment. In our third game, i had great concussion turn 1 and he didnt pull his push counters out so i got my.glory engine rolling and stopped his, which just snowballed.

 

Game 2 vs nighthaunt - win 13-6, win 14-8.

First game was a story of bad varclav placement and a great hand turn 1 for me. Inspired ammis, hidden paths, time trap, dead varclav. Without him, the ghost movement advantage goes away.

Second game, i just chipped away at the chainrasps while keeping out of range of the briar queen and varclav until i had enough glory to make a run at the lady. Some comical dice on both sides (4 briar queen attacks vs 1 wound averon failed, 3 averon attacks doing 4 damage failed...) prevented more glory being scored but i had this locked up in turn 2.

 

Game 3 vs magores - win 10-4, win 18-6

I could have been drawn against cursebreakers or farstriders but instead i got magores, which is a decent matchup for me with my ability to play defensive turn 1. I had to ditch my open hand in round 1 of escalation, alone in the darkness and superior tactician which is why the score was lower, but i played the range game while sacrificing Rastus to the throne of skulls. Second game, my opening hand of change of tactics, harness the storm and fired up, drawing into precise use of force and getting a cheeky kill on an overenthusiastic zarkhus meant 5 glory in turn 1 and it just snowballed from there with my upgrades.

 

When all was said and done, I was top by 2 glory and took home the glass.

 

What I learnt: i think my year of being handicapped by chosen axe play is starting to pay off, i didnt make too many positioning mistakes either through movement or setup. At this point in time, the only board i'm playing cursebreakers on is the nightvault board with 3 blocked hexes in a pyramid. Its a great board to play defensive if you lose the board placement roll. It also has deployment hexes on all 4 edge so even if you need to play aggro and lose board you'll have 1 fighter able.to reach out to someone. I used the nightvault board with no blocked or lethal hexes  once when i won deoyment and wanted to be super aggro into ghosts.

Also the amount of damage cursebreakers can put out after getting spell boostjng upgrades is insane.

 

On the deck:

Objectives: pretty well refined for my playstyle. But the more gambit spells i have, the more difficult master of war will be to score. Contemplating replacing it with an easy 1 score, but im not sure which one yet. Maybe singled out... but thats a tough turn 1 score where master of war was not.

Ploys/gambits: centre of attention is my only bubble here. While its niche use (grouping up for rend the earth or cry of thunder) its amazing at, i did have times it was a dead draw. I'm thinking distraction would provide more utility and help to score alone in the darkness. Other options include shardgale (but i don't like putting my dudes in easy 1 shot range), another damaging spell like sphere of azyr, or damning pact for combo. 

Upgrades: everything here is good. As i add more gambit spells, i may try to drop something for tome of incantation. If a +1 wizard level upgrade is released, thats an auto include for me.

 

 

Firstly; Congrats on your First Glass! I missed out on a Glass tournament over the weekend due to family commitments. Stoked for you dude!

On your games seems like you didn't overly make many mistakes and were able to capitalize on your cards and mis-plays by your opponents. The more I look at your deck the more I feel like it is a solid all comers build which is built to the strengths the cursebreakers inherently hold. I'm not overly a fan of as many passive objectives that you have, but I have been feeling like I should include 1-2 other easily scored passive objectives for my deck.

I agree with dropping master of war, Maybe replace it with something like Strong Start, or Great Gains? Great gains is fantastic because you only have to score 5 glory, in the round, So it can combo well with your score immediately and passives.

Regarding Centre of Attention, I've found its most useful for me in Styming my opponents plans, specifically against other aggro decks, (hello Orks or Magores, as you can use it to pull them slightly back or forward to bring another fighter into range for a Ready for Action / Time Trap combo Amnis ******-missile.

I don't like Shardgale for that exact reason, and in my playtesting the only times it was amazing for me was against multiple 2 wound models, and combining that with Cry of Thunder to maximize effectiveness. It just wasn't worth it for me in my eyes. I thoroughly like Damning pact, For either Rend the earth or Cry of Thunder, or even just increasing Stormsires base spell attach action.

2 hours ago, Skyeline said:

@riddlesworth how do you feel about the mileage you're getting out of Chain Lightning? Based on the breakdown you wrote up top, I'm assuming you're happy with it given that your major call out was center of attention.

Prior to an impromptu break I've have to take from underworlds Chain Lightning was a card I was struggling to justify keeping in the deck when it was squared up against other offensive spells (Cry of Thunder and Abasoth's Withering in particular). Even Rend The Earth seemed more appealing to me since with a single channeling upgrade it becomes easier to get off for a more reliable effect.

 

I 100% Agree with you, I found myself in the same situation and it just wasn't justifiable as a card slot. I find myself in the same situation with Rend the Earth to be honest, I prefer to not have my fighter in such a compromising situation. Although, In saying that I did have an occasion the otherday where Rastus was surrounded by 5 Goblins and I had Damning pact in my hand wishing I had Rend the Earth.

 

[PJetski]

When playing Cursebreakers what do you find to be your worst matchups? 

Maybe related, how do you deal with Farstriders as Cursebreakers?

[riddlesworth]

I would quote everything but these posts are getting lengthy! So in order:

@Desidus

On mistakes and misplays: the comment my buddy made was "8 months pushing dirt uphill with dwarves certainly makes you a better player doesn't it". I absolutely agree. I think having played a slow faction with a poor turn 1 has made the transition to Cursebreakers so much easier. I think if anyone wants to get better at this game, spending time playing Dwarves, Guard and Reavers will teach you a LOT

On all comers - absolutely how I built the deck. I wanted to be able to flex depending on my opponent. If I'm playing against pure aggro, I want to be able to get upgraded without fighting them so I can fight them on my terms. Against defensive or control decks, I needed quick glory scoring through kills to cycle through my deck. However, while I have 5 score immediates, only 3 are related to actually killing a model. I haven't yet played the pure defensive steelhearts (though I think that archetype is dying out with the amount of ranged damage in the game) and I only have 1 set vs farstriders with a less refined deck, but those passive are absolutely key to cycling through upgrades as well.

On Centre of Attention: When I did use it, it was for exactly that, to put a little bit more distance between myself and Magore's but in most of the occasions I had it, Distraction would have been just as good. I'm in agreement with the opinion on Shardgale - it just hurts more than it helps. I have a league game tonight where I've dropped Centre of Attention for Damning Pact and Slumbering Key for Tome of Incantations. I'll feed back on how it went
 

On Master of War: Strong Start, What Armour?, Great Gains, all up for consideration. I've only not scored Master of War once, but the minute my ploys/gambits are 50/50, I gotta find something else. Let's see what the next release brings. I'm PRAYING for a +1 Wizard level upgrade. At that point Stormsire is a God, and Arcane Shield/Sorcerous Insight are actually worth taking.

 

@Skyeline

The Cursebreaker decks at Blood and Glory that were focused on spell slinging also didn't include Chain Lightning. I like it for a couple of reasons: it's a 75% to cast for Stormsire. Other than Abasoth's Withering, it's the easiest way to inspire him in my deck and the key part there is its not targeted, so can be used even when no enemy is near him, so at worst its a 75% Inspiration Strikes. I don't use Trap, Pit Trap or Twist the Knife but until I get upgrades out, my damage spread is at best 2 and 3, so it acts as a pseudo trap, again, with 75% chance to go off. Most of the time, I need to roll 1 hammer on 3 dice to get the scatter I need, which is pretty reliable. Pre upgrades, I also don't like the odds on Cry of Thunder and Rend the Earth. So while Trap, Pit Trap, Twist the Knife and Inspiration strikes are all 100% reliable, for 75%, I get the utility of all those cards. There is also a card that does 1 damage to someone on an edge hex, but you get my point.

 

In the same way that Centre of Attention OR Damning Pact helps Cry of Thunder and Rend the Earth, they can also help Chain Lightning for grouping people together/doing more damage. And like those cards, when other neutral spells are released, its a slot in my deck that *could* make way for them. Right now, it has some decent utility and is good enough to keep in there.

 

@PJetskiFarstriders are 100% my worst matchup but I think they are the worst match up for a lot of factions. I think I play aggro into them, but I need the right board placement. Again, Passives will help, but you have to pen them in because most Farstriders score Passively as well. I need more reps in against them to develop a strategy because with other warbands I've played, Farstriders have been an autolose. Getting Stormsire going ASAP is key, so maybe I'll be more aggressive with mulligans discards.

[riddlesworth]

15 hours ago, Desidus said:

On your games seems like you didn't overly make many mistakes and were able to capitalize on your cards and mis-plays by your opponents. The more I look at your deck the more I feel like it is a solid all comers build which is built to the strengths the cursebreakers inherently hold. I'm not overly a fan of as many passive objectives that you have, but I have been feeling like I should include 1-2 other easily scored passive objectives for my deck.

 

My first activation in pretty much every game is to cast Empower. With Rastus if against hordes or Ammis against everyone else. Harness the Storm, Fired Up, Magical Supremacy all then keying off that is delicious. An opening hand of Harness the Storm, Change of Tactics and Escalation makes me weep with joy. as it's 3 activations and possibly a card draw for 4 glory plus whatever else I draw.

[Desidus]

4 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

My first activation in pretty much every game is to cast Empower. With Rastus if against hordes or Ammis against everyone else. Harness the Storm, Fired Up, Magical Supremacy all then keying off that is delicious. An opening hand of Harness the Storm, Change of Tactics and Escalation makes me weep with joy. as it's 3 activations and possibly a card draw for 4 glory plus whatever else I draw.

I had a draw the other day: Precise use of Force, Advancing Strike, Measured Strike. Rastus into a Chainrasp to score all 3 and draw - Strong Start, Victory after Victory, Combination Strike. Sitting pretty on 10 glory after your first activation has me drooling. 

[riddlesworth]

Well holy hell in a hand basket.

 

Game reset! Deck building just got real interesting.

[Desidus]

I think it's absolutely criminal that my decks only changed by dropping 4 cards. 

[Tutenkharnage]

2 hours ago, Desidus said:

I think it's absolutely criminal that my decks only changed by dropping 4 cards. 

These changes seem as if they’ll hit aggro the hardest, as well as break up the usual list of “must take” cards ... which will be replaced by a different list of must-take cards, but GW is obviously fine with that since they didn’t ding Siperior Tactician, Hidden Paths, Great strengh, and a few others. 

[PJetski]

Here's my first deck after the new ban/restricted lists. Restricted cards are Extreme Flank, Trap, My Turn, Fired Up, and Change of Tactics.

There are a lot of fun combos:

• Damning Pact works on Stormsires attack, Cry of Thunder, Rend the Earth, and it can trigger My Turn
• Centre of Attention is versatile. It can pull enemies out of range of a charge, pull fighters off objectives, pull my own fighters out of combat, and it can also help to activate Cry of Thunder and Rend the Earth.
• Hidden Paths works with Keep Them Guessing and Extreme Flank, and it can set up some gross plays with Centr of Attention + Rend the Earth
• Change of Tactics works well with Keep Them Guessing
• There are six (!!) score immediately cards, all of which are quite easy to score, and help you dig for and feed into playing Combination Strike
• Despite the 6 immediate cards and zero glory upgrades the max glory is still at 15, and it should be able to score 10+ reliably before any kills
• Lots of indirect damage from cards make Cleave unnecessary
• Abasoths Unmaking seems to be key to deal with the new Objective meta,  it is an easy way to inspire without spending an action, and it helps to score Magical Supremacy and Harness the Storm
• Abasoths Withering can help score a lot of these objectives (Harness the Storm, Magical Supremacy, Shining Example, Fired Up, and Strong Start) and is another indirect damage card
• All the spells in the deck are Channel, and there are two Channel upgrades to help cast them consistently

I'm thinking about going up to 24 by adding Vital Surge and Vampiric Weapon. What do you think?

[Desidus]

1 hour ago, Tutenkharnage said:

These changes seem as if they’ll hit aggro the hardest, as well as break up the usual list of “must take” cards ... which will be replaced by a different list of must-take cards, but GW is obviously fine with that since they didn’t ding Siperior Tactician, Hidden Paths, Great strengh, and a few others. 

Oh they certainly will. Overall the only cards I dropped were Great Concussion, precise use of force, time trap and I can't remember the let off the top of my head.

[riddlesworth]

I need to do some deck building at lunch but of the 11 cards in my deck that are banned or restricted, i think 4 of the 5 i keep are going to be objectives. Theres plenty of good tech in ploys and upgrades

 

Edit: here's where ill.probably start from

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N6,N7,N4,243,257,284,291,L24,N319,N371,N11,N12,348,N389,N27,N499,N503,N25,331,N23,N442,N473,N405,N548,N504,N367,N373,N388,N452,N400,N426,N21,N486,411

[Desidus]

So after a weekend of playing a few games and experimenting with another style of deck and warband, here is what I have settled on for my Stormsires. 

I've added some additional end phase glory options, and threw Magical Supremacy back in to assist with playing against mirror match aggro bands.

I really want to try and fit in My Turn, however Just can't justify dropping anything but Rend the Earth for it, and Rend the Earth has been playing well for me lately too on those Suicide runs by Rastus or Amnis.

[riddlesworth]

@Desidus

Liking the deck. Massive Assault is on the bubble for me, competing with Strong Start and Victorious Duel.. It feels like it should be an easy score with all the AOE we have flying around.

Being able to score Masterstroke with Pit Trap, Ready for Action and Lightning Whip is also good. If you had My Turn in there as well it's a really solid objective. I've not commited to My Turn yet because I've stuck with my restricted being mostly objective based. That may change with the upcoming releases but also, the 1 shot meta still exists, even if it is lessened - I am finding that 1 shotting is more rare, but I still feel its existence means healing plys/gambits and My Turn can be a bit dead in the water. 

 

Great point on Rastus and Ammis suicide runs - Eye of the Storm makes Rend the Earth and Cry of Thunder 66% rolls for them (effectively a 3+). I have mostly been sticking Eye of the Storm on Averon to guarantee those casts, but nothing says the others can't use it, especially as I'm running Tome and Familiar in my deck.

 

I like Distraction over Irrisistable Prize also, good call. 

 

I notice you're not running Hidden Paths, instead using Spectral Wings. So far I have only used Hidden Paths to get at key pieces in the backfield - like the Thorns guy who manages the pushes, or an early shot at Vortemus/K'Charrik (who is a pain in my butt atm). I'm toying with dropping it, do you find you have a need?

 

My regular opponents are both using Second Wind as a pseudo Time Trap - charge, play second wind in my power step, make an attack. I think this could work well for Averon BUT it could be played around with positioning.

 

Liking the brave new world of deck building. Still can't bring myself to Shardgale.

 

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

Liking the brave new world of deck building. Still can't bring myself to Shardgale.

 

You have 6 Restricted cards

[riddlesworth]

Ugh......clearly did not save properly.

 

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N6,N7,N4,243,257,284,291,L24,N319,N371,N11,N12,348,N389,N27,N499,N503,N25,331,N23,N442,N473,N548,N504,N452,N400,N486,411,318,N340,271,356

[Desidus]

3 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

@Desidus

Liking the deck. Massive Assault is on the bubble for me, competing with Strong Start and Victorious Duel.. It feels like it should be an easy score with all the AOE we have flying around.

Being able to score Masterstroke with Pit Trap, Ready for Action and Lightning Whip is also good. If you had My Turn in there as well it's a really solid objective. I've not commited to My Turn yet because I've stuck with my restricted being mostly objective based. That may change with the upcoming releases but also, the 1 shot meta still exists, even if it is lessened - I am finding that 1 shotting is more rare, but I still feel its existence means healing plys/gambits and My Turn can be a bit dead in the water. 

 

Great point on Rastus and Ammis suicide runs - Eye of the Storm makes Rend the Earth and Cry of Thunder 66% rolls for them (effectively a 3+). I have mostly been sticking Eye of the Storm on Averon to guarantee those casts, but nothing says the others can't use it, especially as I'm running Tome and Familiar in my deck.

 

I like Distraction over Irrisistable Prize also, good call. 

 

I notice you're not running Hidden Paths, instead using Spectral Wings. So far I have only used Hidden Paths to get at key pieces in the backfield - like the Thorns guy who manages the pushes, or an early shot at Vortemus/K'Charrik (who is a pain in my butt atm). I'm toying with dropping it, do you find you have a need?

 

My regular opponents are both using Second Wind as a pseudo Time Trap - charge, play second wind in my power step, make an attack. I think this could work well for Averon BUT it could be played around with positioning.

 

Liking the brave new world of deck building. Still can't bring myself to Shardgale.

 

 

I'd potentially drop Massive Assault in favor of Shining Example, however have found its rather easy for this warband to score it. Between spells and attack actions.

 

Amnis/ Rastus suicide runs are a staple for me, If I throw one or the other in and they snag me glory between an attack action, & Ready for action, i'm not overly disappointed if they drop, especially considering usually I'll pick up between 2-4 score immediately cards off said suicide run.

I just feel like Distraction is a near must take these days with Concussion being gone. 

Spectral wings has been sensational, Especially in those early rounds, being able to have Rastus or Amnis run out at 5 move (with a range of different damage attacks) has given me flexibility with scoring certain objectives like Measured Strike early. I haven't missed Hidden paths, it also helps that typically, those games where I'm wanting hidden paths, I have deployed rather aggressively and as such am right in my opponents face. Forcing them to deal with it, or tactically pulling back with Illusory fighter if I need to.

29 minutes ago, riddlesworth said:

Ugh......clearly did not save properly.

 

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N6,N7,N4,243,257,284,291,L24,N319,N371,N11,N12,348,N389,N27,N499,N503,N25,331,N23,N442,N473,N548,N504,N452,N400,N486,411,318,N340,271,356

Can't bring yourself to Shardgale, but then add it in your next deck? 😂😉

[PJetski]

I am no longer sold on Superior Tactician. I love the amount of immediate objectives that I run with my Cursebreakers and any time I draw into Superior Tactician before round 3 feels like somebody is slamming the brakes down when I'm going 120km/h.

With the 2 Glory upgrades being put on the Restricted list I am finding it less useful to have a 3rd round glory bomb. I usually tempo my opponents down, so I have been running Extreme Flank instead. It's 1 less glory, but I can score it in any phase so you never feel bad about drawing it, and it's very easy to score it with Hidden Paths.

[Desidus]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

I am no longer sold on Superior Tactician. I love the amount of immediate objectives that I run with my Cursebreakers and any time I draw into Superior Tactician before round 3 feels like somebody is slamming the brakes down when I'm going 120km/h.

With the 2 Glory upgrades being put on the Restricted list I am finding it less useful to have a 3rd round glory bomb. I usually tempo my opponents down, so I have been running Extreme Flank instead. It's 1 less glory, but I can score it in any phase so you never feel bad about drawing it, and it's very easy to score it with Hidden Paths.

I understand how you feel regarding that, but for me It's never a dead draw. I'll discard it only if I've drawn it in the first round as soon as that rounds done, unless I've scored 4 Cards already.

If I pick it up any time after round 1 I will deal with it in hand. Typically I'm scoring anywhere between 16-23 Glory depending on opponents Warband.

[riddlesworth]

I'm also still a Superior Tactician fan. If I draw it in round 1, but i have a score immediate like harness the storm or change of tactics, it doesn't feel like a dead draw. I haven't yet drawn the sort of hands I was getting pre ban - alone in the darkness, superior tactician, escalation in turn 1. It's such a big glory swing end game.

 

14 hours ago, Desidus said:

Can't bring yourself to Shardgale, but then add it in your next deck? 😂😉

Lol. So I had a couple of test games with it, and I'm almost sold. I'd been finding Damning Pact to be less impactful than I'd like and I'm mostly using it as a +1 damage card for Averon's spell attack. Its rare that I have Damning Pact, Cry of Thunder in hand and a spell boosting upgrade on my guys so it hasn't been great. Shardgale doesn't need to combo and just tees up Cry of Thunder, Rend the Earth and Sphere of Hysh to be chaff killers later on in the game. It hasn't yet bitten me in the butt re: fragility of my own models. It means Inspired Ammis and Averon+Tempest's Might threatens the world, and with shadeglass darts/lighting whip/gloryseeker, my range game is very strong and gives the opponent tough choices. It also is almost an auto score for Massive Assault, only failing to score it against Steelheart, Cursebreakers and Farstriders. 

Shining Example is boss. Big fan.

 

I kept Hidden Paths in because it helped score Keep Them Guessing, but once again, I just find that card to be too restrictive on anything other than turn 1 and a bit of an issue against the defensive type of warband. So now with 6 score immediately cards in my deck and 3 of them relatively easy scores without killing enemy models (though shardgale into a gambit spell helps sorcerous scouring), I'm thinking maybe I can recoup that 2 glory with Combination strike. Which means I get to try the spectral wings goodness over Hidden Paths because, like you, if I want an aggressive deployment, Hidden Paths can sometimes be a dead draw. My goal every turn almost always is to empty my hand to draw into more gambits, so holding onto something feels wasted.

Next set of card releases, all I'm really looking for is +1 wizard level upgrade, an innate focus upgrade or ploy (to make Arcane Shield and Sorcerous Insight playable, and to get auto hits from Averon), one or two objectives based around casting spells because my deck is built around it. Better if they're score immediately, obviously and other damaging gambit spells to maybe replace chain lightning or abasoth's withering. Anything else and they'll be going into other decks.

[Cursed]

3 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

 Shardgale doesn't need to combo and just tees up Cry of Thunder, Rend the Earth and Sphere of Hysh to be chaff killers later on in the game. It hasn't yet bitten me in the butt re: fragility of my own models. It means Inspired Ammis and Averon+Tempest's Might threatens the world, and with shadeglass darts/lighting whip/gloryseeker, my range game is very strong and gives the opponent tough choices. It also is almost an auto score for Massive Assault, only failing to score it against Steelheart, Cursebreakers and Farstriders. 

 

Shardgale dmg does not count for massive assault because it's not your fighters who did the dmg!

[riddlesworth]

18 minutes ago, Cursed said:

Shardgale dmg does not count for massive assault because it's not your fighters who did the dmg!

 

Initially I thought the FAQ cleared this up. but because Massive Assault says "fighters" you are correct. Pants

[PJetski]

Massive Assault specifies that your fighters do the damage, not your warband.

Spells count as damage done by your fighter. Shardgale is a ploy, not a spell.

Shardgale does not count towards Massive Assault.

[riddlesworth]

That makes me less excited to use it. But it doesn't kill it. Yet. It's more of a killer for Massive Assault if anything

[PJetski]

Massive Assault probably #5 or #6 on my list of immediate objectives. It gets better as you include more spells and push effects to group people up.