Legion Of Azgorh Mega-Thread

[Trayanee]

6 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

They aren't terrible and are GREAT for taking out wizards... however, 3 attacks with D3 damage is a bit unpredictable for 120pts, so you need the Daemonsmith within 3" and some form of reoll support (Battle Standard Bearer), essentially making them cost 440pts to be moderately useful.

Thanks. I will hopefully finish building the core of my army soon and start testing different builds with proxy war machines to find what works for me.

[Browncoat89]

32 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

Thanks. I will hopefully finish building the core of my army soon and start testing different builds with proxy war machines to find what works for me.

In my personal opinion last year the deathshriekers were the absolute best buy for the points. But after the update and the points reduction the mortar is only 40 points more. Back when it was an 80 point difference the deathshrieker was the obvious choice but now it's a much closer decision, especially if you're already planning to run a daemonsmith and a BSB to buff your deathshriekers anyway. Now for only 40 points more you get a slightly further range, hitting and wounding on 3's, -2 rend, d6 damage (2d6 on a unit of 10 or more), and denying that enemy unit from running. The rocket launchers do get 3 shots but if you're running a daemonsmith anyway the mortar has a 50% chance for 2 shots with a much better stat line compared to those 3. I think a lot of people are still using deathshriekers because it was definitely better with the old compendium but I find it really really hard now not to justify paying the extra 40 points and bringing one or two mortars. It's just an amazing unit for only 160 points now. 

[Noomanator]

I have a 1000 point game taking place on the weekend between a group of friends. Things are ahaping yp to be either a 4 way ffa or 2v2 style set up. 

I am thinking of bringing along the following list.

Drazhoath 

Castelan

Daemonsmith

2 x 10 man units of Ironsworn

1 x 10 man unit of Fire glaives 

One of the three artillery pieces

Thoughts? Criticisms?  Am I crazy to ignore Bull Centaurs in this case? I will be running up againt khorne, ironjawz and ko for sure, with a possible sylvaneth or goblin opponent also. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

On 3/27/2018 at 7:40 AM, Noomanator said:

I have a 1000 point game taking place on the weekend between a group of friends. Things are ahaping yp to be either a 4 way ffa or 2v2 style set up. 

I am thinking of bringing along the following list.

Drazhoath 

Castelan

Daemonsmith

2 x 10 man units of Ironsworn

1 x 10 man unit of Fire glaives 

One of the three artillery pieces

Thoughts? Criticisms?  Am I crazy to ignore Bull Centaurs in this case? I will be running up againt khorne, ironjawz and ko for sure, with a possible sylvaneth or goblin opponent also. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! 

Just a few things, if you wanted to win:

1. Drazhoath is amazing but very expensive for a low point game.  He's definitely usable at 1000pt though.  I've used this list which was fun but not the most "optimal":

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Infernal Guard Castellan (120)
- General
- Darkforged Great Weapon
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Drazhoath The Ashen (320)
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)

Total: 980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 78

Castellan can make the enemy "MONSTER" wounding on 2s for the Fireglaives and 2dmg shots on a 4+ to wound.  With focus fire of 30 shots, that's an avg of 8, 2dmg shots at -1 rend.  The entire army will be 4+ to save with a mass of Ironsworn to hold an objective or tie up a unit.  Drazhoath can turn himself into a mortal wound battery with his spells and flying/charging to contest key units as the battle progresses, or buff himself/Ironsworn with Mystic Shield.

2. Artillery requires support from either a War Engine for mobility, a Daemonsmith to buff it, and/or reroll support (Battle Standard or Chaos Sorcerer Lord) to be very effective.  This is a big points investment for a low-point game.

3. Bull Centaurs with a Taur'ruk General provides very high mobility and dangerous rending hits (-2) that most things in a 1000pt list are unable to tackle effectively.

4. Some form of shooting I found useful, either MSU of Fireglaives for their bombs (along with Daemonsmith bombs), or an Iron Daemon for the 4d6 -2 rend shots.

The problem you'll find is versus Khorne.  You need to absorb their blow and kill in the shooting or hero phase to reduce Bloodbound's penalty for killing in the combat phase. Sylvaneth is able to stack hit penalties in melee, so Arcane Bolt and Flames of Azgorh onto their Treelords is a necessity, along with Naptha Bombs/Blood of Hashut and an Iron Daemon.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Idea for a list:

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Chaos Runeblade
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
3 x Bull Centaur Renders (180)
- Scalding Great Weapon
3 x Bull Centaur Renders (180)
- Scalding Great Weapon
Iron Daemon War Engine (180)
Iron Daemon War Engine (180)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

The Taur'ruks, Bull Centaurs, Iron Daemon, and Ironsworn are very cost efficient units for their role imo, and I think building a list centered around this concept may work well.  2 Taur'ruks and 6 Centaurs can get around with the Command Ability, as well as the 10" movement Iron Daemons along with a Magma Cannon behind them (one can stay back with a Daemonsmith for the extra range).  The other Artillery is good, but the Magma Cannons punch through what needs to be hit, and the midrange supporting fire from the Iron Daemon can soften up targets for the Centaur charge.  In most games, Drazhoath is just there to fly around quickly and land a lucky Flames of Azgorh cast, and his output doesn't seem to be that great for 320pts.  I do love Drazhoath, but I am trying to take a different approach here.

[Noomanator]

So the early games with our spiked up stunties went swimmingly. In the big multiplayer game I comfortably fought off goblins and nurgle before going down to flanking sylvaneth sneaky buggers. The second outing for my legionaires was a three way battle between khorne, ironjawz and myself. This game was a slaughter in the truest sense of the word, since both melee armies couldn't charge me without exposing themselves to each other. My fireglaives sat back all game happily picking off models while my centaurs ran clean up. Of the two games, the centaurs were my big stars, that -2 rend on their greatweapons is excellent! Drazhoath is a great model and a strong attention getter, but geez having flames only go off on an 8 with no cast buffs feels a bit much, compared to more modern spell to cast value ratios. 
 

All in all I am very pleased with how they ran, the centaurs were indeed a solid choice, and artillery does seem a liability in small point games! Fireglaives cannot be underestimated, the indimidation factor they put out on my opponents firing from behind a line of ironsworn was no joke. Next time around I will try out the iron daemon, all those -2 rend shots on such a tanky body seem very good. Thanks for the advice all!

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

4 hours ago, Noomanator said:

So the early games with our spiked up stunties went swimmingly. In the big multiplayer game I comfortably fought off goblins and nurgle before going down to flanking sylvaneth sneaky buggers. The second outing for my legionaires was a three way battle between khorne, ironjawz and myself. This game was a slaughter in the truest sense of the word, since both melee armies couldn't charge me without exposing themselves to each other. My fireglaives sat back all game happily picking off models while my centaurs ran clean up. Of the two games, the centaurs were my big stars, that -2 rend on their greatweapons is excellent! Drazhoath is a great model and a strong attention getter, but geez having flames only go off on an 8 with no cast buffs feels a bit much, compared to more modern spell to cast value ratios. 
 

All in all I am very pleased with how they ran, the centaurs were indeed a solid choice, and artillery does seem a liability in small point games! Fireglaives cannot be underestimated, the indimidation factor they put out on my opponents firing from behind a line of ironsworn was no joke. Next time around I will try out the iron daemon, all those -2 rend shots on such a tanky body seem very good. Thanks for the advice all!

I'm glad it went well for you.  I believe that they can now stand toe-to-toe with most armies since they have increased our melee and shooting output a bit.  I also wish that Drazhoath's Flames of Azgorh was a 7 to cast or something, but lost the -1 bravery penalty.

[Entombet]

With Drazhoath always remember to fight in Aqshy for +1 casting, if oponent dont agree you hawe 50% for it anyway with 4+ roll.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Just now, Entombet said:

With Drazhoath always remember to fight in Aqshy for +1 casting, if oponent dont agree you hawe 50% for it anyway with 4+ roll.

Friendly games yes, a lot of tournaments don't allow that.

[Entombet]

3 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Friendly games yes, a lot of tournaments don't allow that.

Dont know why, he isnt in anyway op like some casters in the game like big bird,arkhan, etc. In time i had no problems using this rule.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

9 hours ago, Entombet said:

Dont know why, he isnt in anyway op like some casters in the game like big bird,arkhan, etc. In time i had no problems using this rule.

Agreed.  IMO, at his cost and for how much his melee got nerfed, he should get an innate +1 to cast/unbind.

[klggor1]

What's the status on the Skullcracker? Has anyone asked Forgeworld if it's still being reboxed? It's been months and many people still want one.

I don't get why they'd randomly remove one of our units unless they plan on cutting more. I suggest everyone email them and ask for a concrete answer.

[Kaleb Daark]

I doubt we will get anything resembling a decent answer or commital as they know that anything like that will just get out in the wild and taken as gospel.

It's still a compendium army all said and done, and lets face it, other than keeping on using the moulds is there any value currently with FW supporting AoS with their smaller resource?

This is going to go one of two ways in the future - that the moulds will wear out and they call it a day either by phasing models out or just stopping anything that can't multirole into 40k or suddenly we get some proper AoS love from them. 

Bear in mind the blood thirster was offline for over a year before going back into production whilst that was being remastered, so never say never.

Just wait and see I suppose.  

[Trayanee]

40 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

It's still a compendium army all said and done, and lets face it, other than keeping on using the moulds is there any value currently with FW supporting AoS with their smaller resource?

2

This is not the first time I see this statement and I disagree. There is a lot more available for LoA than for compendium armies including allies, named chars, battalions and range being actually available to buy. If there is a fair comparison its something like the Free guild.

 

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, Trayanee said:

This is not the first time I see this statement and I disagree. There is a lot more available for LoA than for compendium armies including allies, named chars, battalions and range being actually available to buy. If there is a fair comparison its something like the Free guild.

 

ok, let me rephrase,

Since we don't have a battletome we are still running on the original compendium format.

When we get a battletome we will get new lore as opposed to no lore, and a polishing up and maybe hints of what to expect.

You're right, we're not a compendium in every sense of the word like Brets, but by the same token we're not a battletome up to date army either.

But our "book" is nothing more than a collection of warscrolls in the same way that the monstrous arcanum is.  nothing more, nothing less.

 

Colour it whichever way and disagree all you want, but until we see BattleTome Legion of Azgorh or whatever they want to re-write it as , for me we get updates to the original compendium released by FW,  a fact borne out by the fact that it's still called Legion of Azgorh Warscrolls Compendium, complete with warscroll substitutions for units which were in the original army list in tamurkhan but which never received models, and in this latest release the omission of the the Hellcannon which in Tamurkhan was a chaos dwarf war machine with the annotation to use the stat line in the WoC army book. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

11 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

ok, let me rephrase,

Since we don't have a battletome we are still running on the original compendium format.

When we get a battletome we will get new lore as opposed to no lore, and a polishing up and maybe hints of what to expect.

You're right, we're not a compendium in every sense of the word like Brets, but by the same token we're not a battletome up to date army either.

But our "book" is nothing more than a collection of warscrolls in the same way that the monstrous arcanum is.  nothing more, nothing less.

 

Colour it whichever way and disagree all you want, but until we see BattleTome Legion of Azgorh or whatever they want to re-write it as , for me we get updates to the original compendium released by FW,  a fact borne out by the fact that it's still called Legion of Azgorh Warscrolls Compendium, complete with warscroll substitutions for units which were in the original army list in tamurkhan but which never received models, and in this latest release the omission of the the Hellcannon which in Tamurkhan was a chaos dwarf war machine with the annotation to use the stat line in the WoC army book. 

That's one take on it.  I'm kind of on the fence though for a few reasons:

1. Shar'tor was sculpted and released specifically for AoS.  It would be odd to add to a faction that they don't plan on supporting.

2. Advertising them.  FW has advertised them on facebook more than once, as well as on WarhammerTV.  If it's going the way of the Bretonnians or Tomb Kings, I don't know why they would even bother.

I personally think that they're going to continue to be a Compendium army for the time being, however, I don't think they're going away.  Drazhoath was the only Compendium named character to have survived going into GHB2, meaning that he wasn't banished from the lore yet.

[Kaleb Daark]

re point 2:  TK's and brets were sold right up to their obsolescence.   There would be no sense is binning models on the shelf all the while people are willing to buy them, and shartor would happily work as a champion of chaos with a different fluff re-write., and I'm sure there are the 'what if' scenarios already in place.  But that's by the by.

Re-point 1:  It's a matter of resources.  If all of your eggs are in that 40k and specialist games basket then what happens is the business plan gets re-arranged.   Warhammer forge started with wonderful intention but the financial momentum was all on 30k - nobody could have predicted just how huge that was going to get.  With Alan Bligh leaving us it's added more pressure onto them.

So, in that sense something had to give.  Now I'm not saying that it will all go belly up, but their priorities are elsewhere at the moment.  Titanicus, Fires of Cyraxus, etc etc.  They know that they are heavy cash cows all day long.  If it means putting back a project or five then so be it, especially if they know that there is a new version or update coming from the mothership very soon, as was the case with the Fires Imperial armour book and 8th ed landing.

Fluff would have to be re-edited, and warscrolls taken a second look at.  then you're ready for release.

From an AoS perspective, we've got some great story lines, so it might not be unreasonable that perhaps if they know the story arc will give the realm of fire will get some serious airtime and at that point then you unleash your new shiny.

So until then I agree with your last paragraph pure and simple.

that's why i mentioned resources since they have a lot in their plate.

 

All i'm saying is that we are a warscroll compendium army until FW decide otherwise.

If you keep buying they'll keep selling simple as that.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

1 hour ago, Kaleb Daark said:

re point 2:  TK's and brets were sold right up to their obsolescence.   There would be no sense is binning models on the shelf all the while people are willing to buy them, and shartor would happily work as a champion of chaos with a different fluff re-write., and I'm sure there are the 'what if' scenarios already in place.  But that's by the by.

Re-point 1:  It's a matter of resources.  If all of your eggs are in that 40k and specialist games basket then what happens is the business plan gets re-arranged.   Warhammer forge started with wonderful intention but the financial momentum was all on 30k - nobody could have predicted just how huge that was going to get.  With Alan Bligh leaving us it's added more pressure onto them.

So, in that sense something had to give.  Now I'm not saying that it will all go belly up, but their priorities are elsewhere at the moment.  Titanicus, Fires of Cyraxus, etc etc.  They know that they are heavy cash cows all day long.  If it means putting back a project or five then so be it, especially if they know that there is a new version or update coming from the mothership very soon, as was the case with the Fires Imperial armour book and 8th ed landing.

Fluff would have to be re-edited, and warscrolls taken a second look at.  then you're ready for release.

From an AoS perspective, we've got some great story lines, so it might not be unreasonable that perhaps if they know the story arc will give the realm of fire will get some serious airtime and at that point then you unleash your new shiny.

So until then I agree with your last paragraph pure and simple.

that's why i mentioned resources since they have a lot in their plate.

 

All i'm saying is that we are a warscroll compendium army until FW decide otherwise.

If you keep buying they'll keep selling simple as that.

True, with the resources and all, but just how much was there when Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos was released 2011/2012?  It seemed like leading into that release, the game was struggling, yet they pumped resources into it and sold it.  Who knows, maybe they just want to sell everything they over-produced, and Shar'tor and rules changes for Bull Centaurs was to sell that part of the line.

[Qcbob025]

Looking at this discussion so far... is Legion of Azgorh a compendium army? I would say FW have his own way of managing the brand. Everyone here talking about the "Legion of Azgorh Battletome", but everyone forgot that Chaos Dwarf in the Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos was an important part of the book, but not the full book was based only Chaos Dwarves. I won't be suprised.... if one day they do a book it would be a book regrouping different factions, monsters etc. AND the Legion of Azgorh would have his own sub-faction exactly the same way as the Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos was.

The only thing i see different from Fantasy and AOS is now... AOS got brand new GH every year which trend to get obsolete point value and some minor ruling that have impact on some battletome. Rulewise, I am very doubtful FW would put energy on the release of a book, if it's content might be updated a year or so after. Fluffwise... well I think it's GW job to develop more the realm of Asqshy as they do for the realm of Shyish with Malign Portents campagn.  LOA have survive GH 2016.. than GH 2017... we can only see in July/August what the futur prepared us!

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, Qcbob025 said:

Looking at this discussion so far... is Legion of Azgorh a compendium army? I would say FW have his own way of managing the brand. Everyone here talking about the "Legion of Azgorh Battletome", but everyone forgot that Chaos Dwarf in the Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos was an important part of the book, but not the full book was based only Chaos Dwarves. I won't be suprised.... if one day they do a book it would be a book regrouping different factions, monsters etc. AND the Legion of Azgorh would have his own sub-faction exactly the same way as the Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos was.

The only thing i see different from Fantasy and AOS is now... AOS got brand new GH every year which trend to get obsolete point value and some minor ruling that have impact on some battletome. Rulewise, I am very doubtful FW would put energy on the release of a book, if it's content might be updated a year or so after. Fluffwise... well I think it's GW job to develop more the realm of Asqshy as they do for the realm of Shyish with Malign Portents campagn.  LOA have survive GH 2016.. than GH 2017... we can only see in July/August what the futur prepared us!

a campaign will do me and I'd prefer that. I loved the tamurkhan book and it's still something I re-read often even now.

 

Infact I'd go as far as saying that I'd prefer FW to do their books like they did with Tamurkhan and the horus heresy and imperial armour books, that would be very cool.

[NemoVonUtopia]

I played my first game with my chaos dwarfs, 1000 points vs spider riders. I had:

Castellan with great weapon

Daemonsmith

Iron daemon

2x 20 ironsworn

2x10 fireglaives

I was kinda dissapointed with the iron daemon, mostly because I rolled very badly and failed every more power roll and then rolled low for the amount of shots. My fireglaives were ok vs the little spiders but absolutely murdered the arachnarock in the turn they focused on it. I was quite happy on how the inaugural game went.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

12 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

a campaign will do me and I'd prefer that. I loved the tamurkhan book and it's still something I re-read often even now.

 

Infact I'd go as far as saying that I'd prefer FW to do their books like they did with Tamurkhan and the horus heresy and imperial armour books, that would be very cool.

Agreed.  That book is amazing.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Another list idea:

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Chaos Talisman
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
3 x Bull Centaur Renders (180)
- Scalding Great Weapon
Iron Daemon War Engine (180)
Skullcracker War Engine (200)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Dreadquake Mortar (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132
 

No Drazhoath.  I've decided on this for a few reasons - his is very expensive and has low output throughout the game and is not going to offer too too much imo.  Having a Sorcerer Lord buff the Mortar to help slam the hordes or heavy armor at 40" range is going to be able to act immediately.  Your mobility and flanking units are going to be the Centaurs and the Skullcracker, as your fire softens up their targets.  Thoughts?

[Entombet]

I must take a breake from my loa. Cant make them work, partly from my inexperience and with each lost game im more in the mood to sell them and start some 1st tier faction

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

2 hours ago, Entombet said:

I must take a breake from my loa. Cant make them work, partly from my inexperience and with each lost game im more in the mood to sell them and start some 1st tier faction

I hear ya man.  We can't win every game, and technically "shouldn't"... it's tough but I think in some games you just have to go for minor victory, sadly.  It's unfortunate, but our toolbox is so limited.