VLoZD Artefact - Ethereal v GFC

[Lemon Knuckles]

They seem quite similar on the surface to me and just want to make sure I'm not overlooking or misthinking anything here.

• GFC is better versus zero Rend attacks
• They are the same versus Rend -1 attacks
• Ethereal is better versus Rend -2, and much better versus Rend -3
• GFC can do some extra work against attacks that generate special stuff off of 6s, or attacks that have the chance to MW

Is this right?  Why does Ethereal get so much love and GFC almost none?  What am I missing?

[Takaloy]

stupid question ... what is GFC?

but as for Ethereal Amulet. Guaranteed 3+ with Mystic Shield (rerolling 1s) means it's *very* difficult to kill him. Not to mention he can heal.

[Lemon Knuckles]

Gryph-Feather Charm.  Sub for any -1 to hit artefact.

Totally understand what Ethereal brings to the table; just want to make sure that my understanding of how the two compare is on-point.  They seem largely analagous except in edge cases.

[Teuchter]

Interesting. I never really considered the GFC for my VLoZD. Also not that he needs it but you also gain +1 movement which is pretty decent. 

Would have helped when my VLoZD got murdered off the board to a unit of 10 retributors... probably still would have been murdered... just less so

[Charlo]

Very quick maths shows that yes, without re-roll 1s shield factored in you are correct.

GFC is better against no rend, the same against 1 rend and then after that the Ethereal wins out massively.

When you add in re-roll 1s for a shield, Ethereal is miles better again too.

[ianob]

To answer your question - no, this isn't right. You cant compare them without knowing what the attack stats are to understand the effect of the -1 to hit. You also need to put it in context of your army (eg GFC gets much better when you also have someone casting Overwhelming Dread, Ethereal is much better if you also have a reroll of 1 on your saves, etc)

 

[Lemon Knuckles]

4 hours ago, Charlo said:

Very quick maths shows that yes, without re-roll 1s shield factored in you are correct.

GFC is better against no rend, the same against 1 rend and then after that the Ethereal wins out massively.

When you add in re-roll 1s for a shield, Ethereal is miles better again too.

Forgot to consider the compounding benefit of MS.  Thanks.

3 hours ago, ianob said:

To answer your question - no, this isn't right. You cant compare them without knowing what the attack stats are to understand the effect of the -1 to hit. You also need to put it in context of your army (eg GFC gets much better when you also have someone casting Overwhelming Dread, Ethereal is much better if you also have a reroll of 1 on your saves, etc)

 

Awesome.  Also forgot to consider the compunding benefit of multiple debuffs.  Makes tons of sense.  Broke out Excel to help me sketch things out and will post it here for reference.  The table shows the potential % damage increase/decrease experienced when running GFC over Ethereal.  Very clear how multiple debuffs really add value!  Thanks.  (P.S. love your podcast...learning lots.  Keep it up).

 

[JCar09]

Im sure  GFC is much better for big monster like terrorgueist , they save 4+. But i think Ethereal is the besto for VLOZD

[Lemon Knuckles]

I'm always a proponent that the best tool is the right one for the job at hand, so "best" here is always context dependant.  All I wanted to do was better grasp the differences between the two.  

[deynon]

i prefer GFC, but cause I use it on a coven throne, so against shoot I gain a -2  being close to another unit with a bit of mass. Anyway usually I prefer to reduce the amount of hits received rather than trying to save, moreover considering the rule about rerolling, so preventing lots of them