Mortal chaos

[Arkiham]

So I've been having a look at our units fairly often, comparing points to other units and I can't help feel that chaos units are slightly expensive, mainly for their potential, rather than their guaranteed damage/save.

This is feel is mainly on mortal wound saves from the shields and on the charge weapons.

Now while in theory and on paper Alot of units may be equal due to cost and profiles, in practice this doesn't feel as so, our models are often larger by default and often have shorter weapons (see the spear units or cav units with Lances) and compare them to our own

In 1 on 1 fights this isn't relevant and doesnt show but when it's units costing equal amounts suddenly it doesn't pair up. 

 

Are we getting dirty end of the stick or am I missing something? 

 

[daedalus81]

If you're talking just slaves to darkness it takes a bit to make it all click, but it all works well.  Rotbringers have tons of good stuff.

[Nico]

Slaves to Darkness are like bad Stormcasts basically (compare Chosen to Retributors for example).

However unlike Stormcast, Chaos have some good synergies. Khorne and Nurgle are the best. The Nurgle formation in the Everchosen book is solid.

[Arkiham]

But then it's a very stagnant list? Isn't that what they're trying to stop?

 

 Yeah the ever chosen ones are good, but expensive an you can't practicallyuse half of the scrolls you're paying for for slaanesh khorne and nurgle. Tzeentch is kinda towards unit deployment but for a unit of 6,7,8 warriors you're having to drop a few, and for units less than 10 having to pay for two units an use half of it 

[Nico]

You need to do units of 14 for Nurgle.

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But then it's a very stagnant list? Isn't that what they're trying to stop?

This is an old army that's been transferred across, so it's not surprising that it's stale compared to Sylvaneth or Ironjawz. Chaos (and Death) really need some new stuff. Archaon was great, but very hard to use in matched play (mine's still in a box). Varanguard aren't useable without Archaon, which is limiting. Pure Pestilens are probably the worst army I can think of after Beastmen I'm sad to say (Beastmen were useable prior to the hard nerf in the rule of one concerning exploding hits, which kills them) - Clan Verminus are so much better it's painful. 

 

[Arkiham]

So really we need to wait for a slaves to darkness battle tome before were able to compete against the iron jaws an such 

[cranect]

The beastmen have been doing very well for me so far. Especially the Warherd. Since if you go all warherd you get bullgors as battleline. Take the bullgor stampede and watch chaos reign. I haven't been able to run matched play with the brayherd since I don't have ungors or goes yet but soon I will. Even there I think I have something potential brutal. Beastmen are fairly strong so far since they synergies together very well.

[Nico]

What I'm worried about is the rule of one killing the extra attacks from the formations and the Warherd units themselves. I nearly bought an army to get the Bloodscorched Bulltribe but no points so far.

[LordDrakonus]

I'm also very tempted by warherd but they seem like a weaker destruction list slower and less armour than say ironjaws 

 

[cranect]

They actually compare quiet well to the ironjawz. I've had some good battles against them. The first turn you will normally be running for the 7 or 8 plus d6 move. Then once you get within 12 the minotaurs can charge. If they castled up you are almost guaranteed to make most charges. I have made 18 inch charges more than you would think. All the battalions in the realmgate wars series will not be getting points sadly so they are for open and narrative play only. If you take them in the stampede which gives 2 attacks for bloodgreed they are great. In general the rule of one doesn't hurt too badly since you were only going to get 1-2 extra attacks normally and one wounds. So it wouldn't go off a second time all that much anyway. Plus by that point most things are already dead. As it was a unit of 3 minotaurs in the stampede with 7 base attacks with great weapons managed to do 24 wounds to a treelord after saves. I got 10 wounds through with 7 attacks. Now that was unusual normally you only get 3-5 wounds but still that's normally enough to seriously maul your target if not outright kill it with the damage 3 -2 rend. That's just my experience so far anyway.

[Lucio]

I'm liking the idea of a Fatesworn band as a strong core for a Mortal Chaos army, with a couple of Warshrines, you can potentially get up to 3 saves vs wounds on your Chaos Warriors, even against Mortal Wounds, all for the cost of 1 model in 10 from your units.

Not the cheapest mind you, but certainly an interesting concept, just a shame you can't field 9 Chariots in a unit

 

[kaaras]

Short answer is yes, I would agree they are over-priced, at least a bit. Compare Bloodknights to Chaos Knights, and for 40 more points those Bloodknights are a far better investment.

[james.speller]

23 hours ago, kaaras said:

Short answer is yes, I would agree they are over-priced, at least a bit. Compare Bloodknights to Chaos Knights, and for 40 more points those Bloodknights are a far better investment.

As someone who has played with 10 of both, it really depends on the weapons you give the Chaos Knights and how you plan to equip them. I messed up real bad and gave my Chaos Knights the hand weapon/shield combo instead of spears, with no rend they might as well be hitting people with foam bats. 

I think with Cavalry in AOS they're more true to life, you have a huge punch on the charge if you give them spears/lances. But if you don't do enough wounds to outright crush a unit, or make them flee to battleshock, you're going to get bogged down and you lose your movement advantage. After that first round, Bloodknights are damage 1 as well.

What you should be looking at is a character who lets you pile in an additional time when you make that charge with your chaos knights. Or if you don't want to waste the command ability get a sorcerer and give them demonic power.

[daedalus81]

My chaos knights have never failed to impress me.  Mine are, of course, in Fatesworn.

Chaos Knights w/ lances are 6.46 on the charge and 3.4 otherwise.
My knights are 5.63 all the time.

BKs are still "better" overall, but I don't play Death so it's not relevant to me.  Don't forget it's a 12 point difference per model - 40 for CKs and 52 for BKs.  With a point difference like that its pretty clear on which should be better.