Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Shorewood]

Point for Point Dryads do not beat up medium infantry nearly as well as Hunters with Greatswords.  They are good for swarming objectives and tarpiting, but for damage output Greatswords are a better bang for your point than dryads. 

[Paul G]

Cheers for the input on the hunters guys, I'm not adverse to converting them to have scythes potentially! I do like the sound of Mirage's 6 Scythe Hunter ambush! Will test them in a few games first! If I'm to be trying to alpha strike the hunters I guess it'd be more effective to do the 2nd three with scythes over bows


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[Mirage8112]

5 hours ago, Nico said:

Given the comp to Dreadwood, I would be inclined to play it either the way that @Mirage8112 and I have cooked up with Alarielle and 6+ Scythe Hunters, or alternatively to use it as an anti bunker army by using Hidden Attackers.

9+ Scythe hunters. 

[Nico]

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Point for Point Dryads do not beat up medium infantry nearly as well as Hunters with Greatswords.  They are good for swarming objectives and tarpiting, but for damage output Greatswords are a better bang for your point than dryads. 

Sure - if we could take a list of 100% Kurnoth Hunters we probably would do. Someone right now is thinking the following: "If I take 3x5 Vulkite Berserkers for 180 Battleline and an 80 point Mistweaver Saih, I can fit in how many Kurnoth Hunters with Bows?" 

I need to explain things in more detail - the point is that you have to take the Dryads anyway and they excel at grinding down most opponents that aren't exceptionally high rend themselves (especially anything that hits hard but on 4+ to hit) - I don't feel that crowd clearance is a big issue for Sylvaneth (even more so due to their high mobility and choice of who goes first, such that they can get onto an objective and start hunkering down before the Blightkings or Plaguebearers or Crypt Horrors start waddling their way).

There really needs to be an army that hard counters shooting so much that it's practically an autowin against it (adding a new paper to the ever popular scissors of pew pew). At the moment the best anti-pew pew lists are dismal for objective scoring purposes (Nurgle and Tamurkhan)

[scrubyandwells]

Part 3 of the sylvaneth spotlight is now up at Warhammer Community (special thanks to @Mirage8112 for his thoughts on the Treelord for this one): https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/12/age-of-sigmar-spotlight-sylvaneth-part-3/

[Nico]

Great article.

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Martial Memories is surprisingly good. A lot of key situations might call for a re-roll – Mystical or Deadly Terrain, battleshock, running, charging, etc.

Nice for Mystical Terrain - that's sweet. Gambling on Damned isn't so tempting, losing 2 out of 5 models would suck hard.

 

[Nico]

Final tip (thanks to Les and Aaron!): look for chances to take your opponent by surprise by contesting an objective through the use of the Tree-Revenants’ 6″ pile in – a range that is quite rare in the game.

Presumably this doesn't mean that they can pile in if not a single model is within 3", it just means that you can get a lot further when you can pile in. Contrast with Yhettees' Bounding Leap (which is exceptionally powerful). However, you can hit the end of a long line of Cavalry with one Tree Revenant (within half an inch), let them pile in and attack with just one model, then bring the other 4 Revenants in to join the fray.

[Nico]

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Chaos and Death often aren’t worried about battleshock, but Order and Destruction can certainly feel its effects (leaving aside the celestial lizards, but they’re made up, anyway, so let’s ignore them :)).

Sylvaphon is a thing and is coming your way soon in 2017!  

[Nico]

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Interestingly enough, sylvaneth would be terrified to face Drycha and her Spite-Revenants, since all of their troops are only Bravery 6 or 7…

Yup. Also good vs Tzaangors. 

Nice to pick up Sinister debuff in the hero phase and then teleport next to a target and make the charge. That could be horrendous!

[Nico]

You've inspired me to try the Treelord (we're so spoilt for choice as Sylvaneth - Chaos players would give their left hand for a 3+ save monster). The Stomp Spam could be tasty. I'm also nervous about 400 points of Durthu in the realms of snowballs and Destiny Dice.

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

9+ Scythe hunters. 

Well there is no reason it wouldn;t work with sword hunters  If you strike at troops you'll do more wounds that way  (including most elite troops).

[Nico]

The 2" range also helps them reach over themselves/enemy models etc..

[Shorewood]

5 minutes ago, Nico said:

The 2" range also helps them reach over themselves/enemy models etc..

that might help if your taking a giant squad of them, but if you are just taking squads of 3, the entire unit will be on the front line so no need to reach over themselves.  

[Mirage8112]

that might help if your taking a giant squad of them, but if you are just taking squads of 3, the entire unit will be on the front line so no need to reach over themselves.  

I think we're specifically referring to the dreadwood alpha-strike scenario. In that case they all have to be in the same unit.


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[Aezeal]

8 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

 

I think we're specifically referring to the dreadwood alpha-strike scenario. In that case they all have to be in the same unit.


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But you want to crash them into multiple units I hope.. not much warrants the attacks of 12 hunters on one unit. Hmmm don't have the rules here but you are allowed to charge multiple units right. 

[Mirage8112]

10 hours ago, Aezeal said:

But you want to crash them into multiple units I hope.. not much warrants the attacks of 12 hunters on one unit. Hmmm don't have the rules here but you are allowed to charge multiple units right. 

You would, mostly. Of the 9 hunters (not enough room in the list for 12), you'd probably only be able to get 5-6 or so within range of a single model unit (Say a monster. Most "infantry sized" characters are not good targets for this kind of tactic). The other 3-4 would likely be attacking whatever else was nearby with the hopes of causing enough damage to peel a few extra models off from battleshock. It really depends on what your enemy's deployment is like. 

As for swords vs scythes, I'm a huge fan of swords in units of 3. But in a unit of 9 there's not much a chance to put them all into combat in a  single round; the unit is just too big and there isn't enough room. Aside from that, this is a tactic designed to take out one of the pillars of your opponents list; basically take his feet out from under him. The types of units your looking for will probably be heavily armored, which scythes are better for. 
 

[Clanan]

Side question not worth separate thread: are Sylvaneth fun to play against? I'm bouncing between going Rotbringers or Sylvaneth for non-tourney "competitive" play. I love the models but the idea of spamming wyldwoods seems like it could get old fast for opponents. 

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, Clanan said:

Side question not worth separate thread: are Sylvaneth fun to play against? I'm bouncing between going Rotbringers or Sylvaneth for non-tourney "competitive" play. I love the models but the idea of spamming wyldwoods seems like it could get old fast for opponents. 

The short answer:

It depends.

The long answer:

Sylvaneth are an army with a very steep skill curve. They are not by any means a "point and click" army; every choice you make with them, from list building, to deployment, all the way down to removing models in the battleshock phase can make the difference between a solid win and an abysmal loss. They don't get as many buffs from their characters as Khorne Bloodbound do, they aren't as resilient or killy as Beastclaw Raiders, and they don't have the raw firepower of the Kunnin' Rukk. 

However, Sylvaneth are excellent at manipulating the flow of battle in order to steer the enemy into "unfavorable match-ups". in that regard, they play a lot like the Wood Elves of 8th edition WFHB. Attack the front gate; get slaughtered. Create a diversion at the front gate while your assists sneak in and stab the general in his sleep; Profit. 

My *general* assessment of the army is that if you have two players of equal skill and familiarity with their armies (and their opponents), and two balanced lists (not a "rock-paper-scissors" match-up) the game will be pretty close. But that's often a lot to ask of other players because our army is quite versatile.

I don't know if you've read through the thread yet (you should, theres a lot of good ideas in there), but we have 3 basic setups for a "competitive" 2k game. Gnarlroot, Winterleaf, and Dreadwood. Gnarlroot is basically your defensive option. We talk about it a lot on here, because theres a few good ways to build it depending on your collection and it is very, very resilient. It does make heavy use of Wyldwoods spam to be at it's most effective, but it can be very difficult to play against if you're not familiar with it. Dreadwood is your basic straight up in your face, round 1, alpha-strike offense. There are a few ways you can run it, but nothing beats it's raw damage output and it doesn't really use wyldwoods at all. Winterleaf is your more middle of the road balanced list. It's brutal against chaos armies and generally performs well all around (since you take 2 order units to round things out.) Wyldwood use factors somewhere in between the two other lists.

All in all, three pretty solid choices that can provide the enemy with a tough match-up depending on your playstyle. 

My personal experience is that Sylvaneth are brutal. I don't get to play as often as I like, but so far I've never lost a game with them. I wouldn't even say the games have been close. A few have been bloody, but I can't say there was ever a point in any game I've had so far where I wasn't the player controlling the flow of the battle; Sylvaneth are very good at forcing the enemy to fight on their terms. Again, they are a tough but very rewarding army to play. That high skill curve really means the army really depends on a savy general, and I wouldn't recommend it for first-time or impatient players. 

As to is that fun for the opposing player; it depends on the player. If your opponent rolls his eyes and sighs every time you put a powerful unit on the table. He's gonna have a bad time. If your opponent only enjoys the game if he wins, then he'll probably enjoy the first few games a lot and once you figure out how to play the army he'll hate it. If you opponent enjoys a challenge then he'll probably enjoy playing against a Sylvaneth army. but be aware that all the lists above use pretty identifiable tactics to play well. So if he has a problem with you "hiding in the trees" every game, he'll hate "round 1 alpha strike" and "exploding dryad bunkers" just as much. Likely more. 

 

[doloj001]

Question:

How often should, does the "wyldwood" ability of sylvaneth wyldwood trigger? I know that the keywords are: run or charge move across, or finishing on, but in the case of finishing on should the same model that finishes on the woods during other turns need to roll if it is consumed by the woods? 

[scrubyandwells]

11 hours ago, doloj001 said:

Question:

How often should, does the "wyldwood" ability of sylvaneth wyldwood trigger? I know that the keywords are: run or charge move across, or finishing on, but in the case of finishing on should the same model that finishes on the woods during other turns need to roll if it is consumed by the woods? 

The Wyldwood you-die-on-a-1 roll only triggers for a run move or a charge move. It doesn't trigger on a regular move, or piling in, or retreating, etc. 

[scrubyandwells]

18 hours ago, Clanan said:

Side question not worth separate thread: are Sylvaneth fun to play against? I'm bouncing between going Rotbringers or Sylvaneth for non-tourney "competitive" play. I love the models but the idea of spamming wyldwoods seems like it could get old fast for opponents. 

@Mirage8112 gave an outstanding answer, so just to add one thing: My personal preference is to place no more than 6 citadel woods on the table. That's just a personal choice, though. It's cool if someone wants to use more. I just prefer to cap it at 6 citadel woods, which usually fits the following bill: 

• Pre-deployment: 3 woods 
• Acorn of the Ages: 2 woods
• Silent Communion (if it ever goes off): 1 wood

Re: Acorn, I've been taking a Gnarlroot Branchwych with the Acorn and Throne of Vines, where the latter maximizes her odds of casting Verdurous Harmony (you only get +1 to cast on Verdurous with Ranu's Lamentiri). 

[Nico]

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Side question not worth separate thread: are Sylvaneth fun to play against? I'm bouncing between going Rotbringers or Sylvaneth for non-tourney "competitive" play. I love the models but the idea of spamming wyldwoods seems like it could get old fast for opponents. 

I can think of a dozen reasons not to bring Rotbringers. They are exceptionally dull to play against and weak in the General's Handbook. The only reason to collect them pending a Nurgle Battletome (which might come out sooner than we'd think, who knows), is for Aesthetic reasons. 

[Nico]

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I don't know if you've read through the thread yet (you should, theres a lot of good ideas in there), but we have 3 basic setups for a "competitive" 2k game. Gnarlroot, Winterleaf, and Dreadwood. Gnarlroot is basically your defensive option. We talk about it a lot on here, because theres a few good ways to build it depending on your collection and it is very, very resilient. It does make heavy use of Wyldwoods spam to be at it's most effective, but it can be very difficult to play against if you're not familiar with it. Dreadwood is your basic straight up in your face, round 1, alpha-strike offense. There are a few ways you can run it, but nothing beats it's raw damage output and it doesn'treally use wyldwoods at all. Winterleaf is your more middle of the road balanced list. It's brutal against chaos armies and generally performs well all around (since you take 2 order units to round things out.) Wyldwood use factors somewhere in between the two other lists.

Agree with all of the post. 

I would say that Sylvaneth are fun to play against, provided you know at least some of what they can do - the more the better.

As for some general principles:

• They have plenty of ways to put Wyldwoods down and you need to be aware of how these operate, how to block the Sylvaneth player from deploying more of them or to limit where the Sylvaneth units can teleport to using them.
• They are often (nearly always) going to be a single drop army. However, they will often choose to go first, either so that they can get the Wyldwoods in place and get their troops into them or so that they can do an alpha strike (Dreadwood lists). You might get a double turn in exchange.
• They really hate taking mortal wounds. I'm seriously worried about Disciples of Tzeentch being a problem for Sylvaneth (other than ones with Bow Hunter spam). They will lock down Sylvaneth magic (LoC with a 27" unbind). Zapping 6 wounds off a hero or even zapping 6 3+ save rerolling ones, -1 to hit but Bravery 6 Dryads is going to be painful.
• They have exceptionally good defences against regular wounds, both on the troops (Dryads and Kurnoth Hunters) and the big heroes (due to the artefacts, healing etc.).
• They have very few offensive synergies, but have a lot of units and heroes that simply hit exceptionally hard (Durthu, Alarielle and Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes) and can tank as well.
• They will often form a defensive position within the Wyldwoods either near their deployment zone, near the objectives or 9" away from your front lines. Make sure that you don't go in with units that are just going to bounce and get shredded (the worst possible example would be lobbing in Blightkings with +2 to hit into a Treelord Ancient in a Gnarlroot Battalion).

Unless I'm missing something - Winterleaf can only get one Order Unit in it.

 

 

[Nico]

Thoughts on this (from another thread)?

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The other possibility is that you can use the Forest Spirits rule as this applies to a Sylvaneth unit or a Sylvaneth Battalion. The latter would include (say) Gnarlroot and hence include the Order Wizard. This probably doesn't make much of a difference, since you'll then be bringing on the wizard in the movement phase - so after the hero phase - but there might be the odd occasion where it would matter.

Where this most arguably makes sense is for the Guardians of Alarielle battalion, which includes a bunch of Stormcast Eternals and some Sylvaneth. In this case, the whole lot could hide in the Hidden Enclaves and pop out (9" away) using the Forest Spirits rule.

You could probably argue that you could deploy part of a Battalion containing Order Units within the Hidden Enclaves and part not if you really wanted to.

A little Orange lightbulb has just gone off in my head.  

 

[Nico]

There was a question which arose during my second game as Sylvaneth (I've played against them a lot), (good fun against true legend @Bowlzee, whose dice are still cursed) where a model charged over two Wyldwoods - it seems arguable that it needs to roll twice (which is painful).

Make use of pile ins to minimise the number of models that charge over the Wyldwood.