AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[KibaWildFang]

7 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Large bases basically have to line up in two ranks, so yes only the front row would get to swing in combat (which sucks). I'm not sure what Feast Day pile-ins will do about this - you can't willingly break coherence during any sort of move (run, charge, pile-in, etc) so you couldn't get any more units in no matter what you do. There's speculation that we will get a rule similar to 40k that says something like "models within .5" of a unit within range can attack as normal" so that the back rank isn't screwed completely. 

Funny enough Ghouls are ok with this, because they're on 25mm bases - so as long as they're b2b with each other they're within 1" of 2 models anyway. 

Ah okay. Yeah, I think they may do the .5” rule 40k has, it makes sense since its the same unit coherency. So either way it feels like 6 flayers minimum might be the way to go. Which is good because I’ve decided they can pry my 6-man flayers from my bloodied, regal hands.

If the muster is so important, then we definitely have to keep a Varghulf lying around the main list. Maybe an Infernal Courtier, who knows.

Anyways, I’m excited to see more updates.

[Honk]

2 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

Maybe an Infernal Courtier,

Always like him as general and additional spellcaster… trait and battleline 

[Sception]

2 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

I think they may do the .5” rule 40k has

I doubt it.  That rule is specifically so that they don't need to specify melee attack ranges in 40k.  AoS does have explicit melee attack ranges, something we already know is sticking around in 3rd edition.  It's not impossible that they'd functionally add an extra base diameter to all melee ranges via an awkward extra rule for 'over the shoulder attacks' instead of just, you know, increasing the range of melee attacks generally, GW has had some really unnecessarily awkward rules wording in the past, but in this case it just doesn't seem likely to me.

[KibaWildFang]

1 hour ago, Sception said:

I doubt it.  That rule is specifically so that they don't need to specify melee attack ranges in 40k.  AoS does have explicit melee attack ranges, something we already know is sticking around in 3rd edition.  It's not impossible that they'd functionally add an extra base diameter to all melee ranges via an awkward extra rule for 'over the shoulder attacks' instead of just, you know, increasing the range of melee attacks generally, GW has had some really unnecessarily awkward rules wording in the past, but in this case it just doesn't seem likely to me.

Yeah, unfortunately I can see that. I hope they do something to make second ranks attacking in easier. We need it.

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Always like him as general and additional spellcaster… trait and battleline 

I was debating that if I ended up cutting a squad of flayers from the list. Maybe add this guy and *potentially* some horrors because I like the models. I’d cut the Varghulf for it, but the Varghulf is really nice for mustering anything. Also it’s a lot deadlier in combat, so I’d probably try to take both. Also with Dark Acolyte I believe he gets the AGK’s Black Hunger extra attack spell yeah? He could give the flayers an extra attack a piece... not sure if that’s worth it haha.

With the new rules and such (that we’ve seen so far), it does make me wonder of bricks of 40 ghouls will be worth it. I never got to play with a squad of 40 this current, ending edition so I’m not experienced with how they play next to minimum or 20-man units. Some people say that 40 is really clunky. Others swear by it.

Edited June 9, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[KibaWildFang]

So I just heard about “reinforcement points”.

- Pitched battle Profiles and Unit Size: Unit Maximums have now been removed but Reinforced Units have been introduced, as well as a limit of Reinforced Units in Matched Play. "Single" has been introduced as a keyword for Pitched Battle Profiles. "Single" Units cannot be Reinforced.

I do hope this doesn’t spell a dark time for our flayers... or an even darker time for our horrors! I heard something about battleline being pretty untouched by this though. I can’t find the original source so, uh, grain of salt I guess? Just interesting to hear.

Oh yeah, also monsters counting as 5 models for holding objectives and heroes (models with 5+ wounds) counting for 2 seems pretty neat

[Freejack02]

13 hours ago, Honk said:

charge in as a line, kill stuff and the first casualty will bring you down to 5.

I don't see how this is possible, because you cannot willingly break coherency according to the rules. You have to set up with full coherency, and maintain it until you remove models that would bring model(s) out of the designated "within 1in of at least two other models belonging to same unit" (that being the only time I can think of you can willingly break). Move, Run, Charge, Pile-In, it doesn't appear to matter - movement of any kind means you have to follow the rules and set them up to adhere to coherency.

Other rules could interact with Coherency and modify that I suppose, but that seems like a weird way to go about it. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Freejack02

[Honk]

7 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Other rules could interact with Coherency and modify that I suppose

I will drop my cheesy last model doubled then string out during pile-in plan…

hits our flayers pretty hard, same goes for bloodknights (gore gruntas) and all elite melee that tries to get all attacks in with OVER 32mm bases and only 1“ reach.

 

but it’s no use at all, have to see ALL the new rules and then start crying/moaning OPAF 🤣 same goes for „overwatch“

if all things fail, we‘re back to the fluff army we once were, when we had „reserve points“ and summoning was our strong tactical advantage 🤔 smells like 💩

[Svalack]

I don't think the reinforcement points change much, they only effect you if you were running 9 horrors and 9 flayers together before which you can still do if you pick a specific grandcourt and general to get both as battleline.

Ghoul max size to 30 is a blow though, they were already not exactly the best option. The horde discount is likely gone anyway, maybe they will get a decent points drop to 80 per 10 or something.

 

[KibaWildFang]

2 hours ago, Svalack said:

I don't think the reinforcement points change much, they only effect you if you were running 9 horrors and 9 flayers together before which you can still do if you pick a specific grandcourt and general to get both as battleline.

Ghoul max size to 30 is a blow though, they were already not exactly the best option. The horde discount is likely gone anyway, maybe they will get a decent points drop to 80 per 10 or something.

 

Jeez, they’re hard capped to 30 now? Ouch... but I will say, the idea of paying 160 per 20 ghouls is kind of nice. Myself, I was musing on having an Infernal Courtier general to keep Feast Day. Been having loose concepts because, again, we don’t know everything yet.

I was wanting to keep at least one unit of 6 flayers. If ghouls get that price drop, then I can run 2 units of 6 we battleline, and still keep a few squads of 20 around for last battleline/objective holder/whatever the thing ghouls want to do. Screening I guess. I just know I want some of the little buggers.

[KibaWildFang]

7 hours ago, Honk said:

I will drop my cheesy last model doubled then string out during pile-in plan…

hits our flayers pretty hard, same goes for bloodknights (gore gruntas) and all elite melee that tries to get all attacks in with OVER 32mm bases and only 1“ reach.

 

but it’s no use at all, have to see ALL the new rules and then start crying/moaning OPAF 🤣 same goes for „overwatch“

if all things fail, we‘re back to the fluff army we once were, when we had „reserve points“ and summoning was our strong tactical advantage 🤔 smells like 💩

I sure hope we don’t become useless. I never got to experience how good we were, lol. I’ll make the army regardless, but I really hope we don’t get screwed.

I doubt we’ll be completely de-fanged... er, disarmed, to be honest. Everyone will be getting new Tomes in 3, so we can look forward to ours. I can’t wait to see the new points when it launches.

Edited June 10, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Freejack02]

6 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

I sure hope we don’t become useless. I never got to experience how good we were, lol. I’ll make the army regardless, but I really hope we don’t get screwed.

Well even if they play around with coherency, and battalions, and combat ranges... we still have Gaping Maw 6's to fall back on!

[KibaWildFang]

Could someone help refresh my memory? I was reading an article on the army and it talked about the Medal of Madness relic for courtiers. Mustering doesn’t use a command point does it? I’ve always been under the impression that didn’t, but summoning did.

Edit: nevermind I checked the tome. Summoning is a Command Ability, Mustering is just an ability. So no command point needed there.

Edited June 11, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[KibaWildFang]

So I hear points are going up for all factions. Seems that they are really trying to tone down the amount of models on the board this edition.

[Honk]

5 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

So I hear points are going up for all factions. Seems that they are really trying to tone down the amount of models on the board this edition.

If they stay reasonable…

new unit sizes, CAs like overwatch and table size with mandatory terrain and monster and hero abilities every hero/charge phase, commands from the unit champions that‘s all a big shake up.

but with feast day, blisterskin and gristlegore we‘re pretty solid. If our 6 flayers have to run in a 4+2 formation, so be it, since the champion can order a feast… and mordants are still a thing, so smashbat 4theWin

[KibaWildFang]

22 minutes ago, Honk said:

If they stay reasonable…

new unit sizes, CAs like overwatch and table size with mandatory terrain and monster and hero abilities every hero/charge phase, commands from the unit champions that‘s all a big shake up.

but with feast day, blisterskin and gristlegore we‘re pretty solid. If our 6 flayers have to run in a 4+2 formation, so be it, since the champion can order a feast… and mordants are still a thing, so smashbat 4theWin

How are Mordants still a thing? I thought those battalions were going, and being replaced with the new generic ones.

[Honk]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/core-battalion-rules-shake-up-matched-play-army-building-in-the-new-edition/?utm_source=FB&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=TV, AOS&fbclid=IwAR0Pn6GT2oocPGnjEIJYaRhEd2JN3-uxGVN7kbwcKMFstazkRfHbLuJCorc
 

why choose, if you can have both?

still not the whole picture (points), but the old battalions stay and generic ones are a thing now…

[Svalack]

I would say battalions are going, in the video they said they wanted to remove the have and have nots from matched play. And in this article 'even the playing field'

Unless the rules writers are braindead and think once a battle use a generic command for free is equivalent to MW splashback army wide or a unit fighting twice etc.

We should know for sure when GHB comes out cos that will be a seperate take on the rules specifically for matched play competetive.

[KibaWildFang]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/core-battalion-rules-shake-up-matched-play-army-building-in-the-new-edition/?utm_source=FB&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=TV, AOS&fbclid=IwAR0Pn6GT2oocPGnjEIJYaRhEd2JN3-uxGVN7kbwcKMFstazkRfHbLuJCorc
 

why choose, if you can have both?

still not the whole picture (points), but the old battalions stay and generic ones are a thing now…

This doesn’t say anything about the old battalions staying, though. Even if we did keep it, unless they removed the points cost tax from old battalions, we couldn’t really run the tried-and-true because everyone is seeing a points hike. If we keep battalions, great! I’ll keep Mordants. But I’m prepared for that to not be the case.

[Honk]

7 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

doesn’t say anything about the old battalions

Core Battalions 

There are now two types of battalions in Warhammer Age of Sigmar. The warscroll battalions you know and love are for units of renown and represent a specific focus, a special leader, or additional training. On the other hand, core battalions are intended to balance out the various units in exchange for distinct abilities. 
 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Honk

[KibaWildFang]

7 hours ago, Honk said:

Core Battalions 

There are now two types of battalions in Warhammer Age of Sigmar. The warscroll battalions you know and love are for units of renown and represent a specific focus, a special leader, or additional training. On the other hand, core battalions are intended to balance out the various units in exchange for distinct abilities. 
 

 

....How did I... miss that? I must have been really tired! If that’s the case I really hope we don’t have to pay points to take battalions since most things are going up.

Also for Smashbat, do you just... send the Varg up the board with the ability, or the flayers?

Also this doesn’t mean they’re gonna be legal in matched play 😛

Edited June 12, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

1 hour ago, KibaWildFang said:

Also for Smashbat

Fully buffed mordant varghulf flying over the board. In hollowmourne as general it gets extra damage against artifact heros and all that…

but because the mordants use that very varghulf as pin-point to move, I usually send in the flayers first. If they survive, they might like a varghulf near them next round.

What happens with everything during 3.0 stays mysterious, but I think battalions are pretty safe. Points are also a thing, but well, new game, new rules… adapt adjust annihilate 

[KibaWildFang]

2 hours ago, Honk said:

Fully buffed mordant varghulf flying over the board. In hollowmourne as general it gets extra damage against artifact heros and all that…

but because the mordants use that very varghulf as pin-point to move, I usually send in the flayers first. If they survive, they might like a varghulf near them next round.

What happens with everything during 3.0 stays mysterious, but I think battalions are pretty safe. Points are also a thing, but well, new game, new rules… adapt adjust annihilate 

Oh are we supposed to run this as Hollowmourne? Because I was building for Feast Day! I wouldnt mind running them Hollowmourne, though, because that’s the first court I ever read about that got me interested in the army in the first place!

Edited June 12, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

1 hour ago, KibaWildFang said:

we supposed to run this as Hollowmourne?

All depends,

blisterskin has legs…

feast day with frenzy from unit champion is something to think about

gristlegore with distraction terrorgheists 

but hollowmourne with the trait, ca and artifact turn the dial on the varghulf to 11

[KibaWildFang]

33 minutes ago, Honk said:

All depends,

blisterskin has legs…

feast day with frenzy from unit champion is something to think about

gristlegore with distraction terrorgheists 

but hollowmourne with the trait, ca and artifact turn the dial on the varghulf to 11

Well the trait is kind of eh, but the artifact is really nice on him. But the trait may as well go to the Varg because it does little on an AAR

[Honk]

59 minutes ago, KibaWildFang said:

the trait is kind of eh

😳 vhat? Kind of eh?!?

+1 attack and +1 damage against an hero with artifact, tell that some poor bloodthirster who gets his face kicked in. Or some idoleth deep thingy, 12hp with a 3+ needs to get torn to shreds somehow.