PlayerOfGames Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 3 hours ago, BURF1 said: Here's the thing about that battalion, go ahead and actually try and build a list using it. You realize pretty quick that you have no need for the more than one of each unit. A unit of 6 palladors and a unit of 6 raptors, your battleline and a your hero outfit are 2000ish point right off the top, and since you almost always use a Lord Aquilor with the battalion, large units are more efficient because he can teleport them easier. I would argue that not being able to take more than one of each is actually totally irrelevant. As for Neave, the formation makes her a lot better, 11" move and all, but she is a double turn gamble character for sure. All said she's not really splashable. She needs her battalion to function which is fine because outside of Aetherstrike her battalion is the most powerful way to run a Vanguard army. I guess you are right; since I have her, might as well give her a try. The 2K list I am aiming for is this: Lord-Aquilor (200) - General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker Knight-Venator (120) Knight-Venator (120) Loremaster (100) Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (240) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440) - Starstrike Javelins 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360) Total: 2000/ 2000 Points The Loremaster will have plenty of work to do: depending on the situation, he will either buff one of the Venators, the Phoenix or the Aquilor. The Phoenix gives the list some respectable, mobile melee punch on a durable platform as well as the -1 to hit debuff bubble. And being a giant bird, he blends well with the aesthetics of the Vanguard. The same applies to the alternative, a Freeguild General on Griffon: Lord-Aquilor (200) - General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker Knight-Venator (120) Lord-Relictor (80) - Prayer : Lightning Chariot Loremaster (100) Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Shield & Greathammer 5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows, 1 x Shockbolt Bow 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440) - Starstrike Javelins 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360) Total: 2000/ 2000 Points The Freeguild General On Griffon is also quite durable and very killy with those -2 rend attacks; the Relictor can also provide a -1 hit debuff - too bad he can only heal Stormcasts... Removing the Loremaster and Phoenix in the first list gives exactly the points needed for Neave, 3 Aetherwings and her Battalion. Now, it would be nice if all 3 units of Hunters were part of her Battalion: depending on the situation, potentially all of them could get a +1 to hit in melee if they work close together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 5 hours ago, BURF1 said: Here's the thing about that battalion, go ahead and actually try and build a list using it. You realize pretty quick that you have no need for the more than one of each unit. A unit of 6 palladors and a unit of 6 raptors, your battleline and a your hero outfit are 2000ish point right off the top, and since you almost always use a Lord Aquilor with the battalion, large units are more efficient because he can teleport them easier. I would argue that not being able to take more than one of each is actually totally irrelevant. As for Neave, the formation makes her a lot better, 11" move and all, but she is a double turn gamble character for sure. All said she's not really splashable. She needs her battalion to function which is fine because outside of Aetherstrike her battalion is the most powerful way to run a Vanguard army. Are her rules posted anywhere? And the battalion? I heard she is only with one Chamber so are we forced to paint her like that chamber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayerOfGames Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 You can find her rules here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Age-Of-Sigmar-Blight-War-2017-eng The battalion rules are included in the Blightwar booklet (don't know if it is Ok to post the full rules here). It says on both her warscroll and the Battalion warscroll that she and her companions come form the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost and always wear their colors. However, I wouldn't care too much about that - it is only fluff, after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 17 minutes ago, PlayerOfGames said: You can find her rules here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Age-Of-Sigmar-Blight-War-2017-eng The battalion rules are included in the Blightwar booklet (don't know if it is Ok to post the full rules here). It says on both her warscroll and the Battalion warscroll that she and her companions come form the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost and always wear their colors. However, I wouldn't care too much about that - it is only fluff, after all... Yeah true...I would prefer to do my own colors of course. So she and the battalion have points? I wish they would up date the app to include it..among fixing all the current bugs lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 2 hours ago, PlayerOfGames said: I guess you are right; since I have her, might as well give her a try. The 2K list I am aiming for is this: Lord-Aquilor (200) - General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker Knight-Venator (120) Knight-Venator (120) Loremaster (100) Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (240) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440) - Starstrike Javelins 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360) Total: 2000/ 2000 Points The Loremaster will have plenty of work to do: depending on the situation, he will either buff one of the Venators, the Phoenix or the Aquilor. The Phoenix gives the list some respectable, mobile melee punch on a durable platform as well as the -1 to hit debuff bubble. And being a giant bird, he blends well with the aesthetics of the Vanguard. The same applies to the alternative, a Freeguild General on Griffon: Lord-Aquilor (200) - General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker Knight-Venator (120) Lord-Relictor (80) - Prayer : Lightning Chariot Loremaster (100) Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Shield & Greathammer 5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows, 1 x Shockbolt Bow 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440) - Starstrike Javelins 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360) Total: 2000/ 2000 Points The Freeguild General On Griffon is also quite durable and very killy with those -2 rend attacks; the Relictor can also provide a -1 hit debuff - too bad he can only heal Stormcasts... Removing the Loremaster and Phoenix in the first list gives exactly the points needed for Neave, 3 Aetherwings and her Battalion. Now, it would be nice if all 3 units of Hunters were part of her Battalion: depending on the situation, potentially all of them could get a +1 to hit in melee if they work close together... You're missing aetherwings i believe. Also it's 120 for neave 160 for the battalion. It does say hammer's of Sigmar but ****** that. Their rules are terrible. Any event that would enforce that isn't one I'd want to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Can some one break down the general tactics involved with a Aetherstrike Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Turragor said: Speaking of wizards and buffing units - what about lifesurge or wildform in the list? I think wildform is best if you take, say, 4 dracoths. Lifesurge looks great with everything else on the LCoSD - or gives you an option to give one unit life surge and one the lantern (if you think the main anvil is tough enough). not a big fan of life surge with Stormcast as the relictor can heal D3 with a lower roll and can't be dispelled. I think wildform is better of the two for Stormcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Conti Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 So I'm just now starting a Stormcast army... I've got a lot of reading to do. 83 pages. yeesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorra Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Paul Conti said: So I'm just now starting a Stormcast army... I've got a lot of reading to do. 83 pages. yeesh! Yeah I wouldn't go back that far, things have changed a lot since their first release! Also, people are talking about a pocket-Loremaster for the Venator. Really, if you're taking a battalion, that second artefact being a Luckstone for the Venator is -very- strong. Presuming you don't have to reroll any of your star-fated arrow hit and wound rolls, you can make the damage a 6. I one-shot a Spirit of Durthu with that and one unit of Judicator's at Blackout a few weeks back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 14 hours ago, Malakithe said: Can some one break down the general tactics involved with a Aetherstrike Force? Forget everything you know about playing Stormcast up until this point. Since release, Stormcast have been about hitting hard and fast. Old Vexillor and Warrior Brotherhood were the first things people used, then after those nerfs people were playing around with Hammerstrike and Skyborne Slayers. Which are still good now, and you can play them at a tournament probably. Aetherstrike plays nothing like that. If you're getting into combat early on, you're doing it wrong. Basic build wants min units of everything in the battalion except one large unit of Longstrikes. 6 is good, 9 is better. 12 is probably ok but probably overkill. Bows on the Judicators, and then the other unit of Raptors can be either 3 Hurricanes or 3 Longstrikes, dealer's choice. Hurricanes give you more map presence because they want to be out on the field, Longstrikes are stronger overall but potentially redundant with your big unit. Aetherwings want to be min because a unit of 6 doesn't really do more than a unit of 3, and you want them to die anyway. At this point, assuming you went with 9 Longstrikes and 3 Hurricanes, you're at 1520 (other setups are fine, but this is the general build). You want at least one more Hero for Duality of Death, and you need another Battleline. Keeping it cheap, make that Liberators. You can do another unit of Judicators (I personally like mixing in at least one Crossbow unit) but Libbies will do just fine. For the Hero, people generally like taking a Lord Castellant. Your big unit of Longstrikes is pretty much the linchpin of this whole thing, so giving them +1 save (+2 with Staunch Defender) with the chance to heal is great. You can instead replace him with a Relictor, since Teleporting with Lightning Chariot doesn't count as moving and you can put 9 Longstrikes almost anywhere on the board. If you want to splurge a bit, a Lord-Aquilor is great as well, since he can whisk them off the board, or the Hurricanes. The rest of the points are pretty open. Protectors are a popular choice since they can protect your units from Skyfires or Kurnoth Hunters (or other Longstrikes), but whatever else fits is probably strong enough. Gryph Hounds are nice because you have the shooting to take advantage of it, and you really, really don't want to get Alpha Struck. Dracothian Guard for fast punching, more Libs for bodies, Prosecutors for speed, etc. You could even take Allies with the points - Skinks or Vulkite Berserkers would give you lots of bodies to screen and score. Tactics are generally - protect the big unit of Raptors. Sacrifice everything else - charge Aetherwings into units (hopefully after using them to intercept), Deep Strike Hurricanes into the middle of the field where they can fire and then die, stand Judicators right in the path of charging units. Stormcast don't want to sacrifice models, but every unit that dies and goes down swinging will end up giving you 9 free shots of Longstrikes, which is awesome. Essentially you want to take the midfield with the bulk of the Battalion, putting your opponent in a questionable position - kill them to get them off Objectives, but get shot in return, or let them score and hope you can get to the Longstrikes before you die? Generally you want the Mirrorshield on the Azyros so he doesn't get shot down, and then if he gets close to the enemy your Longstrikes can shoot twice per turn with rerolls to hit. Wonderful! There's another version that goes super MSU (just 2 units of 3 Longstrikes instead) and takes a LCoStardrake, supplementing the big guy with lots of shooting. Most people faced with a Stardrake try to clear the rest of the board instead of trying to kill the Dragon, but killing anything in the Battalion gets you shot back. It's a strong, but expensive, support choice for a Stardrake if you want to go that route. That's the elevator pitch anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Just add a Hurricanum and shoot them to hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Louzi said: Just add a Hurricanum and shoot them to hell... Hurricanums are expensive, and don't do anything to Longstrikes unless there's also a -1 to hit modifier on the target. It's not a bad thing to put in there, but it's not as plug-and-play as you might think. The price severely limits what types of things you can bring alongside Aetherstrike, though it does add in some extra MWs and spells. Hurricanums are better used on units that have a high number of shots, like Handgunners, so you're giving that bonus to more models. If I wanted to bring a Hurricanum in Stormcast, I would probably end up using it alongside mass Bow Judicators rather than Aetherstrike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I think you are completely wrong. Your unit of Longstrike are doing 2 mortal wounds on a 5 and all the other shooting units (10 Judicators) are hitting better. And you can give the Longstrikes a mystic shield. Hurricanum is huge for Aetherstrike...and you end up (9 Longstrikes) at exactly 2000 points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 The damage output of the Battalion is already extremely high. I would rather have more defensive capabilities. Mystic Shield is nice, but Castellant is more reliable and can also bring his Lantern to ward off shooting, and you can fit in the Protectors. A Hurricanum build will crumble much faster to Skyfires (which are still strong despite the new points) etc, and is vulnerable to hard alpha strike armies that can get into the lines quickly since it won't have those other units. A hard gunline with no protection will roll over some armies, sure, but it will straight die to others. It's a bit coinflippy if you go to a tournament, I personally prefer something more well rounded that can tangle with more types of lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystycalchemy Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 So what do you guys think of the list that Warhammer Community thought up to build from Blightwar? Lord-Aquilor (General) Neave Blacktalon Celestant-Prime Knight-Azyros 3x5 Vanguard-Hunters 1x3 Vanguard Palladors 1x3 Vanguard Raptors (Longstrike) 1x3 Aetherwings 1x5 Sisters of the Thorn Blacktalon's Shadowhammers 2000/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Louzi said: I think you are completely wrong. Your unit of Longstrike are doing 2 mortal wounds on a 5 and all the other shooting units (10 Judicators) are hitting better. And you can give the Longstrikes a mystic shield. Hurricanum is huge for Aetherstrike...and you end up (9 Longstrikes) at exactly 2000 points... The hurricanum is basically unsusable for Aetherstrike for a couple of reasons, the biggest one being the cost of it but the second one being that it can't really move. With a Hurricanum build you're 100% relying on killing the enemy before they get to your lines, which isn't always practical. Also because you're already hitting on 2s and doing rend -2 the Mortal wounds aren't quite as big of a deal as they are for units like skyfires. I personally like the Aquilor for Aetherstrike as it means I can start my longstrikes basically anywhere on the board and still end up in range to shoot first turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 33 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said: So what do you guys think of the list that Warhammer Community thought up to build from Blightwar? Lord-Aquilor (General) Neave Blacktalon Celestant-Prime Knight-Azyros 3x5 Vanguard-Hunters 1x3 Vanguard Palladors 1x3 Vanguard Raptors (Longstrike) 1x3 Aetherwings 1x5 Sisters of the Thorn Blacktalon's Shadowhammers 2000/2000 I don't understand the point of the sisters of the Thorn. why not just take 3 more palladors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystycalchemy Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 25 minutes ago, BURF1 said: I don't understand the point of the sisters of the Thorn. why not just take 3 more palladors? Well it does provide wizard support on a fast unit as well as the unique spell being pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayerOfGames Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 18 hours ago, Burf said: You're missing aetherwings i believe. Also it's 120 for neave 160 for the battalion. It does say hammer's of Sigmar but ****** that. Their rules are terrible. Any event that would enforce that isn't one I'd want to go to. Ah, sorry. That was a bit confusing. I wrote the list(s) I originally had in mind and added the changes to include Neave at the end... So what do you think of the lists (both with and without Neave)? 21 hours ago, PlayerOfGames said: I guess you are right; since I have her, might as well give her a try. The 2K list I am aiming for is this: Lord-Aquilor (200) - General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker Knight-Venator (120) Knight-Venator (120) Loremaster (100) Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (240) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440) - Starstrike Javelins 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360) Total: 2000/ 2000 Points The Loremaster will have plenty of work to do: depending on the situation, he will either buff one of the Venators, the Phoenix or the Aquilor. The Phoenix gives the list some respectable, mobile melee punch on a durable platform as well as the -1 to hit debuff bubble. And being a giant bird, he blends well with the aesthetics of the Vanguard. The same applies to the alternative, a Freeguild General on Griffon: Lord-Aquilor (200) - General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker Knight-Venator (120) Lord-Relictor (80) - Prayer : Lightning Chariot Loremaster (100) Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Shield & Greathammer 5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows, 1 x Shockbolt Bow 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140) 6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440) - Starstrike Javelins 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360) Total: 2000/ 2000 Points The Freeguild General On Griffon is also quite durable and very killy with those -2 rend attacks; the Relictor can also provide a -1 hit debuff - too bad he can only heal Stormcasts... Removing the Loremaster and Phoenix in the first list gives exactly the points needed for Neave, 3 Aetherwings and her Battalion. Now, it would be nice if all 3 units of Hunters were part of her Battalion: depending on the situation, potentially all of them could get a +1 to hit in melee if they work close together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Conti Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 6 hours ago, Louzi said: Just add a Hurricanum and shoot them to hell... This is the universal answer for any army that can include a Hurricanum. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryMou3e Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Had a blast with Les's drake list last night. Played scorched earth scenario against a pokey Khorne list with a win for stormcast. I need to get a few more games with it but I'm not sure how much it'll need to change as the meta shifts. It's a very robust list! The fulminators were amazing. I'm tempted to swap out the relictor for a wizard but who knows! >< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayerOfGames Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 22 hours ago, mystycalchemy said: 23 hours ago, BURF1 said: I don't understand the point of the sisters of the Thorn. why not just take 3 more palladors? Well it does provide wizard support on a fast unit as well as the unique spell being pretty powerful. The spell is pretty good, alright. But there are only very small units / single heroes to cast it on, so you get very little return on your big investment. The same goes for the Knight-Azyros. Who is going to really benefit from his shooting buff? The 3 Raptors? Better take 3 more Palladors and a Relictor with Lightning Chariot. You could also go more shooty with 3 more Raptors and a Venator, but since Neave and the battalion bonuses are rather melee focused, Palladors+Relictor is the better choice in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystycalchemy Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 5 hours ago, PlayerOfGames said: The spell is pretty good, alright. But there are only very small units / single heroes to cast it on, so you get very little return on your big investment. The same goes for the Knight-Azyros. Who is going to really benefit from his shooting buff? The 3 Raptors? Better take 3 more Palladors and a Relictor with Lightning Chariot. You could also go more shooty with 3 more Raptors and a Venator, but since Neave and the battalion bonuses are rather melee focused, Palladors+Relictor is the better choice in my opinion Yeah, fair enough. Also: what's the general consensus for the "best build" of palladors? Javelins or Axes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 Javelins 100% of the time. All axes give you is an extra melee attack that isn't even strictly better since it has shorter range and no rend. Extra ranged attack plus Rend in melee will always be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 bros, with the new 'horde' meta, what are our thoughts on the idea with SCE? Do we think 30 liberators is a good idea? or do we feel like some allies with cheaper units would be a better idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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