Pestilens Thread, tactics, builds, advice

[Cerve]

12 minutes ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Which 2 allegiances does your army qualify for?

It sounds to me that youre either missing battlelines for a maggotkin allegiance or illegally added nurgle marked mortals/rotbringers to a pestilens list (although you could have allied in some plaguebearers).

No wait. It is not how it works. In AoS you can build an army of anything if you want, you just need that all of your Units are from one of the General Alliance. So anyone must have of these keywords: Chaos, Order, Destruction, Death.

So no Allegiance there. This is the first rule. 

Once you build up your army, if all of the units have also one particular Keyword (es. Pestilens, Nurgle) it allows you to unlock some battlelines.

So no Allegiance abilities/artifacts/magic etc. Only keywords and unit compositions. 

So then, when you play a game, during deploy you have to choose only 1 Allegiance rules to play with (artifacts, abilities, traits etc).

 

If you wanna play the Maggotkin, the battletome says that all of your units need the Nurgle Keyword. That's all. You're not forced to play Plaguebearers, or Blightknights as a Battleline. The tome OFFERS to you these options, but these are not mandatory. You can litteraly play a mixed Chaos army with 3x10 Marauders as a Battleline and, if all of your units share the Nurgle keyword, then you fulfill the Maggotkin Allegiance request, and you're free to play the Maggotkin Allegiance in your game.

This is way some Disciple of Tzeentch armies at tournaments run 3x10 Tzeentch Marauders from the STD list. Because you can do it.

 

So, if I build a Pestilens army, I can get the monks as a battleline. But when I deploy my units, before doing that, I see that my army has the Nurgle keyword. So nothing deny me to play this army with the Maggotkin Allegiance.

 

[yarrickson]

2 minutes ago, Cerve said:

No wait. It is not how it works. In AoS you can build an army of anything if you want, you just need that all of your Units are from one of the General Alliance. So anyone must have of these keywords: Chaos, Order, Destruction, Death.

So no Allegiance there. This is the first rule. 

Once you build up your army, if all of the units have also one particular Keyword (es. Pestilens, Nurgle) it allows you to unlock some battlelines.

So no Allegiance abilities/artifacts/magic etc. Only keywords and unit compositions. 

So then, when you play a game, during deploy you have to choose only 1 Allegiance rules to play with (artifacts, abilities, traits etc).

 

If you wanna play the Maggotkin, the battletome says that all of your units need the Nurgle Keyword. That's all. You're not forced to play Plaguebearers, or Blightknights as a Battleline. The tome OFFERS to you these options, but these are not mandatory. You can litteraly play a mixed Chaos army with 3x10 Marauders as a Battleline and, if all of your units share the Nurgle keyword, then you fulfill the Maggotkin Allegiance request, and you're free to play the Maggotkin Allegiance in your game.

This is way some Disciple of Tzeentch armies at tournaments run 3x10 Tzeentch Marauders from the STD list. Because you can do it.

 

So, if I build a Pestilens army, I can get the monks as a battleline. But when I deploy my units, before doing that, I see that my army has the Nurgle keyword. So nothing deny me to play this army with the Maggotkin Allegiance.

 

Plenty denies you that as I've previously shown. 

[Cerve]

3 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Its in the Generals Handbook FAQ Cerve. 

 

It boils down to when you write your list you are picking an allegiance for battle line if purposes. Then at the next stage you can either pick that allegiance or your grand alliance allegiance. You may have earlier been able to pick from more than those two but because you pick one at list writing stage you are locked in to that or Grand Alliance only per the FAQ. 

I downloaded FaQ's right now and in the 1.2 version (the last) of th GA2017 there's not that FaQ you quoted. Maybe is an old one?

 

Anyway, again, nothing lock you to bring or your listbuilding allegiance, or the general one. If my army fulfill 3 Allegiances, why I can't choose the one I want? 

I can't find out that FaQ you quoted. I already re-downloaded from Wh community and from the app. Nothing. But even if so, that FaQ doesn't block me to build up a Pestilens army, and then playing it as a Maggotkin of Nurgle.

 

PS: It's just for rule clarification, I'm not fighting for that. Don't even know if that should be strong or not, I don't care. Don't judge me wrong, but I can't really find out the phrase that deny me to do this. 

[Cerve]

2 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Plenty denies you that as I've previously shown. 

Can't fine nothing in your posts that deny me that :-/

[yarrickson]

Just now, Cerve said:

I downloaded FaQ's right now and in the 1.2 version (the last) of th GA2017 there's not that FaQ you quoted. Maybe is an old one?

 

Anyway, again, nothing lock you to bring or your listbuilding allegiance, or the general one. If my army fulfill 3 Allegiances, why I can't choose the one I want? 

I can't find out that FaQ you quoted. I already re-downloaded from Wh community and from the app. Nothing. But even if so, that FaQ doesn't block me to build up a Pestilens army, and then playing it as a Maggotkin of Nurgle.

 

PS: It's just for rule clarification, I'm not fighting for that. Don't even know if that should be strong or not, I don't care. Don't judge me wrong, but I can't really find out the phrase that deny me to do this. 

Not at all Cerve. I just think you need to roleplay out the situation. 

You write a list. In order to be legal it must have a general and the appropriate number of battle line. At this step you select an allegiance for the purposes of ensuring your list is legal. 

You turn up for a game with this list (or submit it for a tournament) you can then select either the earlier allegiance you used for battle line or your GA allegiance. Trying to select a third allegiance at this stage would make your list illegal. 

Just a point about your Tzeentch Marauder point. The circumstances are not the same because the Marauders are generic battle line and not conditional battle line. 

[Cerve]

6 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Not at all Cerve. I just think you need to roleplay out the situation. 

You write a list. In order to be legal it must have a general and the appropriate number of battle line. At this step you select an allegiance for the purposes of ensuring your list is legal. 

You turn up for a game with this list (or submit it for a tournament) you can then select either the earlier allegiance you used for battle line or your GA allegiance. Trying to select a third allegiance at this stage would make your list illegal. 

Just a point about your Tzeentch Marauder point. The circumstances are not the same because the Marauders are generic battle line and not conditional battle line. 

Uhm...I'm getting it...fluffly. I mean, I don't care about having reason, I just need to get the rules.  But what struggle in me is this: "You can select either the earlier allegiance you used, or the GA". 

Why? Where can I find this ? Reading the GA, I don't find it so mandatory. I mean, when it talks about choosing an Allegiance, it makes GA and A with the same weight. I can't find that "this one, or this one" statement. I read more like steps:

1) you need that all are from a General Alliance

2) if you get even other alliances, even better. 

3) But when you're going to play, you have to choose only one of them.

 

I don't know, it doesn't seem a mandatory statemen for me. 

[yarrickson]

Just now, Cerve said:

Uhm...I'm getting it...fluffly. I mean, I don't care about having reason, I just need to get the rules.  But what struggle in me is this: "You can select either the earlier allegiance you used, or the GA". 

Why? Where can I find this ? Reading the GA, I don't find it so mandatory. I mean, when it talks about choosing an Allegiance, it makes GA and A with the same weight. I can't find that "this one, or this one" statement. I read more like steps:

1) you need that all are from a General Alliance

2) if you get even other alliances, even better. 

3) But when you're going to play, you have to choose only one of them.

 

I don't know, it doesn't seem a mandatory statemen for me. 

Because otherwise you wrote an illegal list. I'm sorry if that's not  how it reads to you but its clear to (it seems) the rest of us. 

My suggestion would be to sign yourself up to a local tournament wherever you are (they're great fun) and submit a maggotkin list but mark plague monks as your battle line. As a tournament organiser myself and having had this discussion previously with others I am 100% certain you would find yourself asked to resubmit a legal list. 

[Cerve]

15 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Because otherwise you wrote an illegal list. I'm sorry if that's not  how it reads to you but its clear to (it seems) the rest of us. 

My suggestion would be to sign yourself up to a local tournament wherever you are (they're great fun) and submit a maggotkin list but mark plague monks as your battle line. As a tournament organiser myself and having had this discussion previously with others I am 100% certain you would find yourself asked to resubmit a legal list. 

I don't know, it doesn't seems clear to me. The GA says that many units and battalions have more specific Allegiances. Plural. The thing is units that becomes battlelines if an army has an Allegiance. Not if you choose an Allegiance.

Stay with me. Build up a Verminus list with Stormvermins as your only battleline. Ok it's legal. Because you have that Allegiance. But you have also the Chaos Allegiance. As the Skaven Allegiance. And so on..

Then you choose an Allegiance to play with. Verminus and Skaven doesn't have any rule, so you're going to play the Chaos Allegiance. Because it has traits, rules, artifacts etc.

But you still have both Verminus and Skaven allegiance! Otherwise your list should be illegal because your Stormvermins should stop to been battlelines. So you still have that Allegiance.

 

So...GA says to me that when I'm going to play, "if you army qualifies for more than once Allegiance (note that there's nothing that describe the difference between GA and A, it says only "Allegiance"), you must choose one of them".

So again. I'm building a fully Pestilens army. It has:

Chaos Allegiance

Skaven Allegiance

Pestilens Allegiance

Nurgle Allegiance

Having the Pestilens Allegiance unlock me to take Monks as Battlelines. But when I play, my army qualifies in all of these Allegiances!

The Chaos one gives me A:Chaos rules

The Skaven one gives me nothing 

The Pestilens one gives me A:Pestilens rules

The Nurgle one gives me A:Maggotkin of Nurgle.

 

I just need to choice one of them. By rules, this is how works. Then if any infopacks write his rules, it's ok there's no problem on that. But by the GA2017 and all the FaQ, keywords shares Allegiances, even if those have not any set of rules linked with. The Verminus Allegiance still exist even withou Artifacts, Traits etc. Any keyword brings you an Allegiance, technically...but most of them doesn't have rules, so it's useless to play with. 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

I think I see your problem. You're not following GHB17. You're wanting to play without matched play rules. Which is fine. 

It could be that wherever you are the tournaments don't require you to build a list before hand with spells / traits / prayers picked out before hand. It looks like you're kind of trying to "head fake" the system....

 

"I'm a X army with X benefits for list composition etc"

 - moments before the game starts- 

 

" J/k I'm a Y list , lol! "

[Cerve]

14 minutes ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

I think I see your problem. You're not following GHB17. You're wanting to play without matched play rules. Which is fine. 

It could be that wherever you are the tournaments don't require you to build a list before hand with spells / traits / prayers picked out before hand. It looks like you're kind of trying to "head fake" the system....

 

"I'm a X army with X benefits for list composition etc"

 - moments before the game starts- 

 

" J/k I'm a Y list , lol! "

Ehm....I quoted thenGA2017 in the matched play section all the time all my words come from that supplement, "Matched Plays-Allegiance" section.

I only play matched.

 

Anyway doesn't matter because even if possible the list will suck, so I lost my interest lol. 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Yeah, so sad. Pestilens so bottom tier right now :/.

 

I think we were all waiting with baited breath for maggotkin to bail out the rat boys 

[Cerve]

3 minutes ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Yeah, so sad. Pestilens so bottom tier right now :/.

 

I think we were all waiting with baited breath for maggotkin to bail out the rat boys 

I got it!! Finally I got the phrase, I was misreading one part of the FaQ. Damn, I'm not english eheh

Ok sorry guys for this! Yep, only your Allegiance or the General Alliance Allegiance.

About Pestilens, I'm fine with them. No they don't sucks, I was saying that my idea sucks. Because I was thinking to play Pestilens with the nurgle Wheel, but I'm losing all the traits and spells (because no Rotbringer/Mortal/Deamons in the list). But I'm fine with Pestilens, both with it and the Chaos Allegiance. 

 

Anyway, with 3x10 Marauders we can play a Pestilen-ish army with the Maggotkin, and they becomes scary! Someone got 2nd place somewhere with a 3xMarauders, GUO, Glotkin and 40-40-30 (it was 30 the last one?) core list. Blades spell on Monks is terrifying.

 

 

 

Just a last question: why if I download the GA2017 faqs from Wh Community, it downloads the 1.2 version? I'm looking for that FaQ quoted above, but can't find it. Is it and issue of my internet or something?

 

 

[yarrickson]

11 minutes ago, Cerve said:

I got it!! Finally I got the phrase, I was misreading one part of the FaQ. Damn, I'm not english eheh

Ok sorry guys for this! Yep, only your Allegiance or the General Alliance Allegiance.

About Pestilens, I'm fine with them. No they don't sucks, I was saying that my idea sucks. Because I was thinking to play Pestilens with the nurgle Wheel, but I'm losing all the traits and spells (because no Rotbringer/Mortal/Deamons in the list). But I'm fine with Pestilens, both with it and the Chaos Allegiance. 

 

Anyway, with 3x10 Marauders we can play a Pestilen-ish army with the Maggotkin, and they becomes scary! Someone got 2nd place somewhere with a 3xMarauders, GUO, Glotkin and 40-40-30 (it was 30 the last one?) core list. Blades spell on Monks is terrifying.

 

 

 

Just a last question: why if I download the GA2017 faqs from Wh Community, it downloads the 1.2 version? I'm looking for that FaQ quoted above, but can't find it. Is it and issue of my internet or something?

 

 

The one I posted is from the AOS app if that helps?

[Cerve]

16 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

The one I posted is from the AOS app if that helps?

It is old, is from 2016. Anyway, GA 2017 says the same thing so it's fine

[yarrickson]

Just now, Cerve said:

It is old, is from 2016. Anyway, GA 2017 says the same thing so it's fine

Oldie but a goodie. 

[yarrickson]

Back on topic. I see the DOK book imposes a rule of 1 on their prayer 'lores' but not their base warscroll prayers. Had a mild panic when I heard there was a prayer rule of one as the ability to stack  prayers is one of our strongest abilities. But its all good still so far. 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

I have the stupid urge to flood with field with 240 plague monks. Someone talk me down please.

[yarrickson]

16 minutes ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

I have the stupid urge to flood with field with 240 plague monks. Someone talk me down please.

I can't help talk you down, I use 200 and love it. 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

4 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

I can't help talk you down, I use 200 and love it. 

Have you been running your horde under maggotkin?  I've done it a handful of times with a verminlord and not 100% enthusiastic about it. It is sweet to have your plague monks   go M8 then run and charge under a feculent.

[yarrickson]

8 minutes ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Have you been running your horde under maggotkin?  I've done it a handful of times with a verminlord and not 100% enthusiastic about it. It is sweet to have your plague monks   go M8 then run and charge under a feculent. 

 

Nah, pure pestilens only for me so far. 

[Naflem]

On 3/19/2018 at 7:54 AM, Cerve said:

Anyway, again, nothing lock you to bring or your listbuilding allegiance, or the general one. If my army fulfill 3 Allegiances, why I can't choose the one I want? 

Because "The Allegiance your army belongs to" means the allegiance you used (for battle-line) when constructing your army, and "grand allegiance" means grand allegiance. 

[Cerve]

6 hours ago, Naflem said:

Because "The Allegiance your army belongs to" means the allegiance you used (for battle-line) when constructing your army, and "grand allegiance" means grand allegiance. 

Old discussion, already solved

[Mayple]

19 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

I have the stupid urge to flood with field with 240 plague monks. Someone talk me down please.

I'm gonna talk you down! You ready!? Here I go!

 

 

 

 

 

Only 240? 

[RoyalDachshund]

Guys, deliver me from temptation.

I love the esthetics of pestilens - hooded rats that you can smell from a kilometer. I would love to invest my time and money into them. I would love to play them in matched. Pure skavens, pure stench of fur and rot. While I'm not aiming towards being the very best (a.k.a copy-paste most popular list online) I also don't like being on the very bottom over and over.

My local meta consists of Skyfires/Changehost/Kroknado/Kharadrons.

How much I'll suffer?

[HorseOnABeachBall]

8 minutes ago, RoyalDachshund said:

Guys, deliver me from temptation.

I love the esthetics of pestilens - hooded rats that you can smell from a kilometer. I would love to invest my time and money into them. I would love to play them in matched. Pure skavens, pure stench of fur and rot. While I'm not aiming towards being the very best (a.k.a copy-paste most popular list online) I also don't like being on the very bottom over and over.

My local meta consists of Skyfires/Changehost/Kroknado/Kharadrons.

How much I'll suffer?

Short answer ? A lot. It's the proverbial knife to the gunfight. 

You can win, but everything has to go right.

I logged somewhere around 25+ games with them in another thread here (somewhere page 2-3) and it took me about 13 games before I finally snagged a win.