Pestilens Thread, tactics, builds, advice

[Cerve]

2 hours ago, Mayple said:

So a full pestilens army could run with nurgle abilities? Nice

What about nurgle allies? Would they still have access to nurgle spells and such? Like a nurgle sorcerer, for example.

This is what I wanna try! Just a fully Pestilens army with 1-2 sorcerers (and a Vortex maybe?). That's all (: 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Just a quick report on the effectiveness of 2 PlagueClaws. Went to a tournament yesterday.

 

Game 1 vs KO - 

Both claws miss enemy general turn 1. Both claws hit and wound enemy general turn 2, he makes a save and suffers 3 wounds. Plague claws ineffective.

 

Game 2 vs Daughters of Khaine

Plagueclaw hits and wounds baby Morathi turn 1. Inflicts 5 wounds which ability down to 3. The shot forces her into mama mode. Second claw hits bloodwrack and inflicts 5 wounds. Turn 2 both hit bloodwrack, 1 fails to wound. Inflicts 3 more wounds. Turn 3, both miss melusai. Plague claws performance up for debate , earn C grade.

 

Game 3 vs Stormcast

Plagueclaws target general turn 1 but one misses and one wound is saved. Turn 2 inflicts 3 wounds on stormcast general, misses the other shot. Turn 3 both shots miss and/or fail to wound. PlagueClaws ineffective.

 

Thoughts?

 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

On March 17, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Mayple said:

So a full pestilens army could run with nurgle abilities? Nice

What about nurgle allies? Would they still have access to nurgle spells and such? Like a nurgle sorcerer, for example.

 

I think you're misinterpreting. A Pestilens army (allegiance) can take either Pestilens or GA Chaos abilities.  It can *not* be a Pestilens allegiance while taking Maggotkin abilities ( as Maggotkin arent a GA). Long story short; you can't have plague monks as battleline in a Maggotkin army. Here's the relevant quote from pg 77

" You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to."

The comparison to Ironjaws and Destruction is flawed. A better comparison would be a Pestilens army that took its abilities from GA chaos.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

On March 17, 2018 at 8:48 AM, tolstedt said:

Yes you are right.

Plague monks are battleline if everything in your army has pestilens keyword, even if you take maggotkin abilities.  It's been this way since ironjawz GHB1.

To do the list with the GUO, you would take the GUO as an ally, which means it cannot be the general, but this is fine because you are taking it for the bell anyway.

 

This is wrong fellow rat friend.  Plaguemonks are only battleline if your army is carrying Pestilens allegiance. At this point Maggotkin abilities are not an option, only Pestilens or GA Chaos.

[tolstedt]

6 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

This is wrong fellow rat friend.  Plaguemonks are only battleline if your army is carrying Pestilens allegiance. At this point Maggotkin abilities are not an option, only Pestilens or GA Chaos.

Allegiance for battleline is not the same as allegiance abilities.  This is absolutely how it works, just as in GHB1 with the Ironjawz.
 

[tolstedt]

I don't use plagueclaws.  I prefer two mortar teams and an arch warlock on balewind for my artillery.

I can't justify taking catapults when the mortar teams are just better mathematically.  

[RoyalDachshund]

 

25 minutes ago, tolstedt said:

Allegiance for battleline is not the same as allegiance abilities.  This is absolutely how it works, just as in GHB1 with the Ironjawz.
 

Yes, but Ironjawz took GA:D allegiance. While building an army you can choose either your factions allegiance or your GA allegiance. Having a "pure" Pestilens lists is giving you:
a) plague monks as battleline
b) choose between Pestilence allegiance or Chaos allegiance.

Think of it as a two-step process.
First, you build an army, picking models that dictates what is considered battleline (ex. Ironjawz army have Aardboys battleline, Pestilens have Plague Monks battleline). Then you pick allegiance (ex. Ironjawz (all models are Ironjawz) or Destruction (all models are destruction) or Pestilence (all models are Pestilens) or Chaos (all models are Chaos)

In order to get Nurgle one, you need the base tax of 3x10 marauders with mark of Nurgle to get access to either Nurgle allegiance or Chaos allegiance

[tolstedt]

I understand that two step process, but again, army composition for battleline is different than allegiance abilities.

[Cerve]

5 hours ago, RoyalDachshund said:

 

Yes, but Ironjawz took GA:D allegiance. While building an army you can choose either your factions allegiance or your GA allegiance. Having a "pure" Pestilens lists is giving you:
a) plague monks as battleline
b) choose between Pestilence allegiance or Chaos allegiance.

Think of it as a two-step process.
First, you build an army, picking models that dictates what is considered battleline (ex. Ironjawz army have Aardboys battleline, Pestilens have Plague Monks battleline). Then you pick allegiance (ex. Ironjawz (all models are Ironjawz) or Destruction (all models are destruction) or Pestilence (all models are Pestilens) or Chaos (all models are Chaos)

In order to get Nurgle one, you need the base tax of 3x10 marauders with mark of Nurgle to get access to either Nurgle allegiance or Chaos allegiance

No, is not linked to the General Alliance. The choice is not between one special Allegiance or the general one (Order, Chaos etc). 

You build a list, bringing any allegiance you want. You can have more than one during listibuilding. 

Then, before deploy (FaQ) you have to choose only one of your possible Allegiances. But there's nothing that lock you into 1 specific Allegiance (let's say Pestilence) and the Chaos Allegiance. 

 

So you can build a fully Pestilens list that can fit with: Pestilens Allegiance; Maggotkin Allegiance; Chaos Allegiance.

Then, before the deploy, you must choose only one of these. You can play a fully Pestilens army with Monks as battlelines, and play the list with the Maggotkin Allegiance.

 

PS: is the same with Chaos/Slave to Darkness/Tzeentch Allegiance.  A single list can share all these allegiances (unlocking any battleline as well) but you have to choose one of them only when you're going to play a game. (In tournaments it's different by the infopack where normally you have to choice your Allegiance after the list is done)

[HorseOnABeachBall]

4 hours ago, tolstedt said:

I understand that two step process, but again, army composition for battleline is different than allegiance abilities.

I don't think you understand. There are certain models that can only become battleline under specific conditions. In the case of Plaguemonks, you have to build a Pestilens army for Plaguemonks to become battleline. If you do that, you're limited to Pestilens Allegiance or Grand Alliance Chaos. Thats it.

If you want Maggotkin Allegiance , you'll need 3 battleline with the keyword nurgle (which PlagueMonks are not).

 

 

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

So you can build a fully Pestilens list that can fit with: Pestilens Allegiance; Maggotkin Allegiance; Chaos Allegiance.

You actually can't. In a Maggotkin allegiance you would be lacking battleline. Your other option , when building a Pestilens list is Grand Alliance Chaos

 

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

PS: is the same with Chaos/Slave to Darkness/Tzeentch Allegiance.  A single list can share all these allegiances (unlocking any battleline as well) but you have to choose one of them only when you're going to play a game. (In tournaments it's different by the infopack where normally you have to choice your Allegiance after the list is done)

Another "No" here. If you build an STD list (and unlock Chaos Knights as battleline), you then couldn't decide to switch to TZ allegiance. You're options would be between Allegiance Slaves to Darkness or Grand Alliance Chaos.

I think the words Allegiance and Alliance are confusing a lot of people.

Lastly, this is all about matched play. If you're playing any other way,  you can do whatever you please.

[Cerve]

6 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

I don't think you understand. There are certain models that can only become battleline under specific conditions. In the case of Plaguemonks, you have to build a Pestilens army for Plaguemonks to become battleline. If you do that, you're limited to Pestilens Allegiance or Grand Alliance Chaos. Thats it.

If you want Maggotkin Allegiance , you'll need 3 battleline with the keyword nurgle (which PlagueMonks are not).

 

 

You actually can't. In a Maggotkin allegiance you would be lacking battleline. Your other option , when building a Pestilens list is Grand Alliance Chaos

 

Another "No" here. If you build an STD list (and unlock Chaos Knights as battleline), you then couldn't decide to switch to TZ allegiance. You're options would be between Allegiance Slaves to Darkness or Grand Alliance Chaos.

I think the words Allegiance and Alliance are confusing a lot of people.

Lastly, this is all about matched play. If you're playing any other way,  you can do whatever you please.

Alliance is just a fluff word. If you choose the Allegiance Chaos, it IS an Allegiance.

Alliance is just the name.

 

And yes, you can. Because Stormvermin becomes battlelines if you have the Allegiance:Verminus. But there's no rules for it, so you have to pick the ALLEGIANCE:Chaos. Man, it is an Allegiance too. "Alliance" is just for fluff, is the background name of the 4 great forces Order, Chaos, Destruction, Death.

If you're true, all the non-ruled Allegiance should be impossible to play. Verminus, Moulder etc these have no rules, no artifacts etc. If you pick one of the 4 Alliance, these ARE Allegiances.

[yarrickson]

I'll just add another voice in favour of the obvious and reasonable. 

Plague monks can only be battle line if your army is Pestilens or Chaos allegiance.

At this point I have to assume anyone claiming otherwise is wilfully misreading the rules. 

[Mayple]

2 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

I'll just add another voice in favour of the obvious and reasonable. 

Plague monks can only be battle line if your army is Pestilens or Chaos allegiance.

At this point I have to assume anyone claiming otherwise is wilfully misreading the rules. 

I agree, but for clarity: plague monks would be battleline for pestilens/chaos because they could always opt for chaos abilities/traits instead of their pestilens ones, yes? So they wouldn't be battleline in an 'open' chaos allegiance, i.e alongside a bunch of other non-allied chaos units.

Am I understanding you correctly?

[yarrickson]

2 minutes ago, Mayple said:

I agree, but for clarity: plague monks would be battleline for pestilens/chaos because they could always opt for chaos abilities/traits instead of their pestilens ones, yes? So they wouldn't be battleline in an 'open' chaos allegiance, i.e alongside a bunch of other non-allied chaos units.

Am I understanding you correctly?

Yes. Exactly right. 

[yarrickson]

I use this as an aide memoire. 

[Cerve]

But why? Only 1 Allegiance or the GA? 

I can't read nothing in the rulebook, not GA, nor FaQ that lock me into 2 choices. Where can I find it? Because I'm not reading nowhere that a list that fulfill Allegiances: Chaos, Maggotkin and Pestilens cannot choose between one of them. 

In listbuilding, you cha fulfill any Allegiance you want for the Battleline clue. Then, before deploying you have to choose one of them.

 

But I don't read nothing that doesn't allow you to build a Pestilens army with Monks as Battleline and then choosing the Maggotkin of Nurgle for playing. I can't read nowhere the rule "Only that allegiance X or the general one". 

[Cerve]

23 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

I'll just add another voice in favour of the obvious and reasonable. 

Plague monks can only be battle line if your army is Pestilens or Chaos allegiance.

At this point I have to assume anyone claiming otherwise is wilfully misreading the rules. 

Nope. Plague Monks can only be battleline if your army is Pestilens. That's all.

 

During listbuilding....then, if that army satisfy any onther Allegiance requires, you are free to choose that Allegiance for playing. I don't know where I can read otherwise.

[tolstedt]

25 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

At this point I have to assume anyone claiming otherwise is wilfully misreading the rules. 

Why?

 

[yarrickson]

Because the rules (in GHB17) are clear. 

[Cerve]

14 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Because the rules (in GHB17) are clear. 

Yes they are, and they never point out that you're locked to only 2 choices. They just say that some armies can fulfill more than one Allegiance at the time. You just need to choose one of them.

Only the example shows the choice between a GA and an A, but that is an example. I must take the rules, not a single example. And Maggotkin was not a reality at that time anyway.

 

By RULES, there's nothing that deny you to choice one from any Allegiance of you army. And by FaQ, these choice is done only when you setup.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Cerve , pg 77. I already quoted it in case you're book isn't handy. It's all of a sentence and half. 

It does indeed lock you into an available allegiance OR GA chaos.

 

[yarrickson]

My suggestion would be to try and submit such a maggot kin/pestilens list in advance of a matched play tournament as I guarantee it would be returned as illegal. 

pic attached is relevant FAQ. 

[Cerve]

13 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

My suggestion would be to try and submit such a maggot kin/pestilens list in advance of a matched play tournament as I guarantee it would be returned as illegal. 

pic attached is relevant FAQ. 

Still, the GA talks about "when your army qualify for more than one Allegiances.."

 

More than one. Not only between two Allegiances.

Then the FaQ: "You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the Allegiance your army belongs to, or the Grand Alliance (...)  your army belongs to".

It's fine. But my army actually belongs to 2 Allegiances and 1 GA Allegiance. The thing is that I can't read that I'm locked into only 2, A or GA. There's no limit, I can't find it :-/

PS: I can't find that FaQ anyway, where I can find it?

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Which 2 allegiances does your army qualify for?

It sounds to me that youre either missing battlelines for a maggotkin allegiance or illegally added nurgle marked mortals/rotbringers to a pestilens list (although you could have allied in some plaguebearers).

[yarrickson]

39 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Still, the GA talks about "when your army qualify for more than one Allegiances.."

 

More than one. Not only between two Allegiances.

Then the FaQ: "You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the Allegiance your army belongs to, or the Grand Alliance (...)  your army belongs to".

It's fine. But my army actually belongs to 2 Allegiances and 1 GA Allegiance. The thing is that I can't read that I'm locked into only 2, A or GA. There's no limit, I can't find it :-/

PS: I can't find that FaQ anyway, where I can find it?

Its in the Generals Handbook FAQ Cerve. 

 

It boils down to when you write your list you are picking an allegiance for battle line if purposes. Then at the next stage you can either pick that allegiance or your grand alliance allegiance. You may have earlier been able to pick from more than those two but because you pick one at list writing stage you are locked in to that or Grand Alliance only per the FAQ.