ITC AOS (USA)

[gmulroney]

Garrett and Casey,  from Best Coast Pairings here to hopefully clear up what we do and what our goals are.

In order of who and when the issues came up...

Rhelion, BCP and FLG are two separate entities.  We have a very close relationship with them as we took over the hosting/maintenance of their ITC rankings a couple of years ago.  We don't really have a "horse in the race" so to speak about the ITC's setup itself.

As for being a business... yes, we'd love for this to pay the mortgage and we've made some decisions to work towards that goal but, we know that doesn't happen with-out TOs and Players.  Everything you need as a player and TO will always be free at the event.

SlanesshCultist... Softscores are fairly new, it was not a simple problem to solve and we hope you'll find value in how we've done it.

Thomas Lyons... I would be lying if there wasn't a little bit of pride in players enjoying the speed and simplicity of what we offer enough to make an event run on paper a no-go.  It also makes me sad to see  players miss out on great events just because they're 'lazy'

There is 0 chance of our subscription fee becoming a requirement.  We'd be out of business instantly.  As has been shown time and again we have to give away handles to sell razors.  The handle we're giving away are the tools, the razors we sell are data mining for players.

JamesT... thanks for the support, glad to see you're enjoying what we do.

TL:DR....   BCP is not ITC, it will always be free, we have new features that should cover [format of choice] 100% in app

[svnvaldez]

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/02/01/a-teachable-moment-from-lvo-40k-championships/

More information on 40k drama and "how we can all walk away from this better people" found here.

[Requizen]

37 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/02/01/a-teachable-moment-from-lvo-40k-championships/

More information on 40k drama and "how we can all walk away from this better people" found here.

It's good to know that everyone recognizes this is not ok. Tourney players already have a reputation for being WAAC even if they are great people, the fact that Tony was immediately called out and the incident was looked down on is a great sign for the community. I'd have been really disappointed if people just laughed and accepted it. 

[Drofnum]

3 minutes ago, Requizen said:

It's good to know that everyone recognizes this is not ok. Tourney players already have a reputation for being WAAC even if they are great people, the fact that Tony was immediately called out and the incident was looked down on is a great sign for the community. I'd have been really disappointed if people just laughed and accepted it. 

I have to wonder how much of the reaction is simply due to it being streamed though.  Although i may still be a bit jaded from my experience at LVO, I feel like had this not been caught on stream there would have been far less backlash.

[svnvaldez]

1 minute ago, Drofnum said:

I have to wonder how much of the reaction is simply due to it being streamed though.  Although i may still be a bit jaded from my experience at LVO, I feel like had this not been caught on stream there would have been far less backlash.

Maybe true. But that can probably be said of alot of things... Politics, sexual harassment, etc etc...

So many things use to go unnoticed. Lucky for us we live in an age of awareness and information.

[AGPO]

51 minutes ago, Requizen said:

It's good to know that everyone recognizes this is not ok. Tourney players already have a reputation for being WAAC even if they are great people, the fact that Tony was immediately called out and the incident was looked down on is a great sign for the community. I'd have been really disappointed if people just laughed and accepted it. 

I think this is an important point. Before I became active on the forums, I had a generally negative impression of tournaments based on a couple of bad experiences with hyper competitive players who indulged in 'Tony-esque moments.' Since meeting a bunch of people online who play at the top end of the tourney scene, I've got the chance to see them for the amazing bunch they are who give a heck of a lot to this hobby, are great sports and simply enjoy a different style of play. I've also known plenty of narrative players who like to throw their toys out of the pram, and no one can claim any one style has a monopoly on difficult characters.

I hope threads like this one encourage more narrative people to give tournaments a go, I know I will.

[PlasticCraic]

So this topic has mainly been an interesting discussion on the merits of the ITC specifically.  I'd like to comment on what I see as the benefits of a unified ranking system more generally, whether that be the ITC or A.N. Other.  In Australia the rankings are ran by Heralds of War, and it's not monetized - they do it purely for the love.

Speaking as an Australian who is benefitting from the great work that Clint and the guys have put in, having a unified rankings system is a great motivator, even if we're not all going to be #1.

I regularly see events using it as a selling point: “If we get X number of attendees, we will submit results to the Heralds rankings”.  Even 3-round events use it to boost attendance numbers (even though the rankings points for them are relatively minor and aren’t going to get anyone into the higher reaches – people still find it interesting and motivating).

Which I think demonstrates that unified rankings are not just purely interesting to hyper-competitive gamers.  For a lot of people, it makes things feel more "official" when you see there is a universally-recognised league table out there in the public domain, with your name and results on it.

Beyond that, having the Masters as a big end-of-year jamboree is great for the whole scene.  As someone who has no expectation of qualifying for Australian Masters, I still take a keen interest in it.  From the point of view that I hope my clubmates who are targeting it get there, cheering for them when they do, and keeping an eye out for how people I have played against at events are getting on. 

You get the Podcast and YouTube previews with list tech, the batreps afterwards, the whole thing is just a great focus and gives a real sense of narrative to the whole year.  I also followed UK Masters very closely (despite not being part of that scene) and I totally get why a regular tournament attendee in the USA would want to have the same.

At the end of the day it’s just keeping score.  It’s the same logic and emotion for why we keep score at anything, even in friendly games.  And what it does for the scene is awesome.

I don’t have any answers for the USA can pull together its different scenes, but as someone with no skin in the game, I’d love to see it happen.

@svnvaldez you mentioned an interest in Australian podcasts.  I strongly recommend the Heralds of War podcast as a resource in that case - they have a very interesting interview with the CanCon winner Adam Burt in their latest show.

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

@svnvaldez you mentioned an interest in Australian podcasts.  I strongly recommend the Heralds of War podcast as a resource in that case - they have a very interesting interview with the CanCon winner Adam Burt in their latest show.

Thank you for posting! It's great to hear an outsiders prospective.

I'll definitely give Heralds of War a listen.

[SlaaneshCultist]

15 hours ago, Requizen said:

While money does enhance this, I am of the opinion that as long as there is some prize or glory to be won, there will be people who will play as cutthroat as possible. While we like to say that having fun is the most important thing you can do in a game, some people just like winning more and will follow the rules to the letter to achieve that. Some tournaments "support" that by basing your entire performance on Battle Points, which is why I like when events include Sportsmanship in the Overall score. But even then, people like that have always just been part of the Warhammer gaming side of things, it's just best not to encourage them. 

My understanding (again, secondhand) is that the guy in question has a reputation as being a fun opponent and good sport, which of course is destroyed now, which leads me to believe that it was, indeed, the cash that drove him to behave the way he did. Also, that he is a young guy, and several thousand dollars when you're a young guy can seem like a LOT of money. I will say, and stand by, ****** cash prizes.

9 hours ago, gmulroney said:

SlanesshCultist... Softscores are fairly new, it was not a simple problem to solve and we hope you'll find value in how we've done it.

I mean, I don't know that I'll be running any tourneys any time soon, but I love hobby focused tournaments, so I'm sure I''ll find tertiary value in it! I knew you guys where planning on implementing it, just not sure if you already had, or if it was yet to come. Thanks Garrett!