Card QC concerns

[Sleboda]

9 hours ago, Killax said:

All choices, I dont see why you wouldnt resleeve unless your purposefully trying to thake an advantage here.

Even though that was not asked to me, here is my thought.

1) That's the same argument as "unless you have something to hide, you won't mind taking this lie detector" or other variants on that.  Nothing personal, Killiax, but really dislike people going straight to the assumption of guilt when others won't do what they are told.  Bad behavior may be one reason for reluctance, but there are others, even if they are not apparent or you don't agree with them,

2) For me, it's a few things:

• I don't want someone else telling me how I have to play when I am already following all the rules of the game.  I am doing nothing wrong by playing with my cards as they come.
• i do sleeve everything (Arcadia Quest, X-Wing, Massive Darkness, and now this game) but I do so for protection of the cards.  I use clear sleeves. I got a case of sleeves 10 years ago and I finally have reasons to use them! Yay!
• I tend to not be interested in doing what "the kool kids" do. I have watched enough card gaming and listened to enough conversations at those tables to realize that card sleeves can be a status symbol or other way to be a show off.  I don't like that and don't want to be part of it.
• Money. I would much rather buy more things I actually need for my games than re-purchase sleeves I already own.  When I run out of these clear sleeves, I will buy more clear ones because they cost less and I have no need, in-game or to satisfy my (or someone else's) ego, for costlier "kool" sleeves.
• Lastly, I don't cheat and highly resent it if someone accuses me of doing so.  If my opponent thinks I'm trying to cheat with the clear sleeves, then I will gladly concede the game and find a player who doesn't assume I am a bad person.

[Killax]

1) No it isn't the same argument. If you are aware of the tournament rules you should be aware that card markting is prohibited. Whoever marked your cards is irrelevant. It's up to the player to be aware their cards arn't marked. A simple sleeve set is again  5 dollar or euro, it has completely nothing to do with lies, it's about prefenting confusion or prefenting adding additional information that is only available to one player.

2) You do not seem aware of the tournament rules, they are another set of rules in addition to the rules of the game. If your working with a deck building game, FFQ and Wizards and many more have the same issue policy with cards. If you use clear sleeves it's up to you to ensure non of the orginal cards are marked. This has again nothing to do with cool kids. 

Lastly if your not willing to prefent obtaining additional information because you feel your cooler like that, again go for it. Don't be suprised if a judge calls you out on it. I'm not saying what you should do. I am saying that preventing cards are not marked is a player's responsibility for tournament games. It's clear your not willing to prevent it and as a result I would refuse playing such opponents.

As before, the issue is two-fold. 
1. Cuts are not the same.
2. Colours are not the same.
E.g. 

Now there is two simple solutions to this:
- Don't use clear sleeves and thus prevent this from becomming an issue.
- Ignore the fact and create a problem.

[Sleboda]

12 minutes ago, Killax said:

1) No it isn't the same argument. If you are aware of the tournament rules you should be aware that card markting is prohibited.

I was responding specifically to your statement that you should sleeve "unless your purposefully trying to thake an advantage here."

That's the part that is the same as what I was referencing.  Nothing to do with tournaments, just the idea that it's somehow ok to, essentially, assume guilt and expect that innocent people don't mind being assumed to be guilty.  it's a negative mindset and an approach to social interaction that is set up to restrict freedoms. Not trying to make this bigger than it is, because obviously card games and McCarthyism/Patriot Act/Trumpism are on different planes in terms of seriousness, but it's still just a bad thing to tell innocent people that they have to stomach being accused of a bad thing and take it as normal.  It's not.  

Catch the cheaters and punish them, but don't treat me like a cheater as default.

 

"I am saying that preventing cards are not marked is a player's responsibility for tournament games. It's clear your not willing to prevent it and as a result I would refuse playing such opponents."

The direction that statement approaches it from is indicative of what the problem is here.  The question is not "Am I willing to prevent card marking." The question is "Am am going to enjoy a game with people who assume I am cheating?"

 

I assume the good and act when I see the bad.  Someone who asks me if I am willing to prevent card marking is showing me that they asssume I want to get away with something, when that's not the case.

"Now there is two simple solutions to this:
- Don't use clear sleeves and thus prevent this from becomming an issue.
- Ignore the fact and create a problem."

The solution requires I spend money just to assuage someone else's assumption of my guilt. Do you really want to go into a game assuming your opponent will cheat or having to prove you are not a cheater yourself?  isn't it friendlier to assume good intent?

Ignoring the card variance does not create a problem.  People looking to cheat creates the problem.

In the games I have played so far, using all 4 warbands, we have not used the differences to our advantages.  In fact, it never crossed our minds to do so ... because we are not cheaters.

Man, I was worried about this when GW put out a game specifically designed to play on the worse nature of gamers.

 

 

Also, darn it, how they heck to I add extra quote blocks in one post????

[Killax]

As before, you wouldn't want to prevent the colourshift from being an issue in your possible games by simply playing with different sleeves as usual, that's entirely up to you.

[Sleboda]

8 minutes ago, Killax said:

As before, you wouldn't want to prevent the colourshift from being an issue in your possible games by simply playing with different sleeves as usual, that's entirely up to you.

But again, it's not an issue by  default.  It's unfortunate, sure. I would prefer a uniform look to the cards, but we don't have that ... and it's not an issue unless the players are bad people who would cheat.

[Killax]

If you look at the pictures provided it's much simpler. It is an issue if you use clear or no sleeves. Why? Because you can see the different card per expansion set who are coloured or cut differently.

And tada, issue solved:

[Sleboda]

I get that there is a difference. I am saying there is no issue unless you assume bad intent by the player.

I would prefer there to be no difference.

There is no issue that is inherent in the difference, only an issue in the players who cheat to exploit the difference.

With good people as your opponents, the issue doesn't exist. Don't play against cheaters or those who accuse you of cheating and the supposed issue goes away.

 

Once more for clarity- 

I would rather they be all the same in appearance straight from the manufacturer.  Despite GW being around for ages, this is new to them.  M:tG went through this as well.  Perhaps GW will improve as they move on.  Even if they don't it doesn't make my games less fun.  I have good opponents who don't try to cheat each other just to win at a board/card game.

[Kugane]

How is the size of the cards? If they are the same size as Magic cards I would advice to get yourself some sleeves from the KMC brand. I play a lot of TCGs and KMC has AMAZING sleeves! Just make sure you buy regular and not mini sized sleeves if so.

[Killax]

Just now, Kugane said:

How is the size of the cards? If they are the same size as Magic cards I would advice to get yourself some sleeves from the KMC brand. I play a lot of TCGs and KMC has AMAZING sleeves! Just make sure you buy regular and not mini sized sleeves if so.

They are the exact same size and indeed KMC is really good too. Though less accesable in US and Europe I'd say. 

[Kugane]

Just now, Killax said:

They are the exact same size and indeed KMC is really good too. Though less accesable in US and Europe I'd say. 

You can easily buy them on cardmarket, I'll post a few links in a second. They shouldn't be too expensive :), maybe 4 or 5 euro for a pack of 50~100 sleeves.

[Kugane]

https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Products/Sleeves/80+KMC+Hyper+mat+Sleeves+(Black)

A lot of sellers selling them for 4 euro per pack

And inner sleeves for double sleeving:

https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Products/Sleeves/100+KMC+Perfect+Sized+Sleeves

Lowest at 2,25 per pack

If you buy several colours from the same seller it should only be a few euro shipping as well - I am not sure if they ship to the US though!

[Chris Tomlin]

You can get Dragon Shield sleeves from  Element Games - I definitely recommend these sleeves having bought loads of them for the FFTCG. I particularly like the matte ones. Feel free to use my referral code CHR891 for double crystals when purchasing

[Wallack]

Are all dragon shield matt the same size? I have clear sleeves from mayday and they are 63.5 x 88 and are not tight at all, however the dragon shield I see are 66x90 so cards will even have more room...

[Killax]

30 minutes ago, Wallack said:

Are all dragon shield matt the same size? 

They should be yes.

[Wallack]

31 minutes ago, Killax said:

They should be yes.

So are them all 66x90? because that leaves more room than the 63.5x88 that I currently have (that are also not tight fit) I don't want to get some sleeves and end up having tons of room in it.

[Sim]

12 minutes ago, Wallack said:

So are them all 66x90? because that leaves more room than the 63.5x88 that I currently have (that are also not tight fit) I don't want to get some sleeves and end up having tons of room in it.

If you look on the second page of the how will you sleeve thread I posted a picture of mine double sleeved in kmc and dragon shield matte. Fits nicely, the extra mms are the reinforced edges, there is no movement inside

[Wallack]

So my expansions came and no issue with borders (radius) or colour differences so ... I was ok with clear sleeves after all x) however I still ordered tons of black (ploys) and red (objective) matte because I will print some cards at home to have them twice and maybe even some custom cards.

[Killax]

@Wallack excellent to hear!

I think keeping fresh sleeves for tournament play is generally speaking a smart move. For casual games there is absolutely no real issue because there is also no real gain in knowing that information. 

When I look back at the MtG days I always had a set of fresh sleeves for tournament specifically. Because again my aim always is to not have any advantage over my opponent, wether intended or not. More sets will come and thus those sleeves will come in handy anyway  

[Jamie Grinstead]

We had a bad batch of Ironskull's Boyz at our store, reported it to our account handler at GW and she is now sending out some replacements.

If you have such badly miscut cards, I would strongly recommend speaking to where you bought them from or GW customer support. It helps if you can give them the batch number where they came from and if you have proof of purchase.