8 Lores of Magic

[Menkeroth]

1 hour ago, chord said:

Why?  I would say no, as each faction may be different in the various realms.  That would make more sense as free people from the land of fire would be culturally different from one's in the land of beasts.

it would be more thematic and more lore  to be realm based.

But we already have unique lores (Sylvaneth, Bonesplitterz etc) and they have no difference between their branches in different realms, not mentioning that during fighting in different locations in various realms you have Time of War sheet with unique spells too. And anyway it can be covered with wizards with different unique spells.

20 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Every new faction has its origins in WHFB.

Stormcasts too? I have not known that, interesting... giant orcs as well? cultists of Tzeentch and tzaangors with ogroids? Not mentioning that all the whfb races hail from times much older than whfb actually.

And anyway it is dead so let's really let it go and create something new, I agree completely.

[Screwface]

21 hours ago, Arkiham said:

allowing access for all factions to all magics kinda counters the idea of the end times with the magic essences being absorbed

This wasn't the case in WFB. Factions usually had access to 2 generic lores plus their own faction-specific one. I'd like to see this return. I know it's a different game but the magic phase is what I miss most about WFB.

[Aginor]

I'd also like to have more spells to choose from. Even if it only were the ones from the Battlemage warscrolls or so, choose one for every wizard.

If they introduce more spells I'd love to have something to protect from mortal wounds and/or shooting, especially for those armies that suffer from the shooting/mortal wounds meta we seem to have.

 

Edit: and since positioning is a huge tactical factor in AoS area denial spells would also rock.

Such as preventing setup of units in the spell area (against Seraphon, KO, or SCE for example) or a magic wall blocking movement. Or slowing down a charge (-2 or so) by making terrain muddy. Such stuff. We have some of those things in the game but not by using magic.

[AverageBoss]

8 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

Stormcasts too? I have not known that, interesting... giant orcs as well? cultists of Tzeentch and tzaangors with ogroids? Not mentioning that all the whfb races hail from times much older than whfb actually.

And anyway it is dead so let's really let it go and create something new, I agree completely.

Not to get too off topic but, except for Stormcasts yes to all those. We did not have giant orc models, but they existed in the lore. Tzaangors used to be called changegors. At the end of the day they have been and are Tzeentch beastmen. Ogroids are minotaur mages (more Tzeentch beastmen). And cultists of Tzeentch have existed for as long as Tzeentch has.

[Kyriakin]

12 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

And anyway it is dead so let's really let it go and create something new, I agree completely.

So, if you want "something new", that doesnt look back, I guess you must be against the continuation of all four Chaos gods, including Tzeentch?

The words "Warhammer" and "Sigmar" in the game's title must really sting, too.

[Burf]

Stupid, impossible to balance waste of time.

[Screwface]

2 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

So, if you want "something new", that doesnt look back, I guess you must be against the continuation of all four Chaos gods, including Tzeentch?

The words "Warhammer" and "Sigmar" in the game's title must really sting, too.

I think it's clear he was talking about rules, not lore.

[Malfunct Bot]

2 hours ago, Screwface said:

I think it's clear he was talking about rules, not lore.

Considering they're arguing over whether or not the current "new" AoS factions had their origins in WHFB I believe they are talking about the lore, and not rules.

And Ironjaws are just "Black Orcs - The Faction" so their origins did have actual rules in WHFB.

[Screwface]

21 minutes ago, Malfunct Bot said:

Considering they're arguing over whether or not the current "new" AoS factions had their origins in WHFB I believe they are talking about the lore, and not rules.

And Ironjaws are just "Black Orcs - The Faction" so their origins did have actual rules in WHFB.

The topic is about bringing back the 8 lores of magic, which would be about rules at the end of the day, regardless of whether there's a lore-based reason to do it or not do it.

Someone saying he wants something new in this context does not mean he wants to let go of the chaos gods or the word Warhammer. That's a ridiculous conclusion to draw from his statement.

[Kyriakin]

29 minutes ago, Screwface said:

The topic is about bringing back the 8 lores of magic, which would be about rules at the end of the day, regardless of whether there's a lore-based reason to do it or not do it.

Someone saying he wants something new in this context does not mean he wants to let go of the chaos gods or the word Warhammer. That's a ridiculous conclusion to draw from his statement.

To be fair, this Historical vs. Fantastical Fantasy argument has blown up over several threads at the same time, and has spanned the rules, aesthetics and setting.

[Menkeroth]

12 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Ogroids are minotaur mages (more Tzeentch beastmen)

Except that they are not and never existed before. Surprise.

12 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Not to get too off topic but, except for Stormcasts yes to all those.

But you've said "all new factions", so you are wrong no matter how hard you try to avoid it.

8 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

So, if you want "something new", that doesnt look back, I guess you must be against the continuation of all four Chaos gods, including Tzeentch?

The words "Warhammer" and "Sigmar" in the game's title must really sting, too.

Try harder, dude, I am sure you can.

 

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, Menkeroth said:

But you've said "all new factions", so you are wrong no matter how hard you try to avoid it.

Except I didn't mention a thing about factions at all in this entire conversation...

I was simply pointing out that of the list of things you posted, all expect SC have their roots in old WFB stuff, Ogroid included.

[Menkeroth]

23 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

Every new faction has its origins in WHFB. Slayers? Dwarf flying machines? Treemen? All of these are elements within WHFB armies that have been dialed to 11.

32 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Except I didn't mention a thing about factions at all in this entire conversation...

I was responding to that, you should be more careful, although I admit my bad as well. And no, ogroid is not included, although it's not a faction anyway. And speaking of which, for instance, KO don't have their roots in WHFB, they are rooted in 40k and its squats - almost unchanged, I'd say.

 

 

[GammaMage]

In my experience, the people who most want extra spells / generic lores of magic are the Seraphon and Darkling Coven players, which are caster intensive armies without their own lores. I am one of them. It is kinda annoying that I'm encouraged by coven battleshock rules to play lots of sorceresses, yet can't actually use multiple sorceresses effectively.

[Lord Veshnakar]

1 hour ago, GammaMage said:

In my experience, the people who most want extra spells / generic lores of magic are the Seraphon and Darkling Coven players, which are caster intensive armies without their own lores. I am one of them. It is kinda annoying that I'm encouraged by coven battleshock rules to play lots of sorceresses, yet can't actually use multiple sorceresses effectively.

That was kind of my point. I mean I don't really have a horse in the race on the matter, I mean I play fyreslayers, I only have one means of dispelling and its from an artifact, but I have friends who play Seraphon, Collegiate Arcane, and Darkling Coven and not having a racial lore like Tzeentch, Sylvaneth, or Bonesplitterz definitely removes/minimizes the ability for them to field really "magic focused" armies like the aforementioned 3 can.

I was just trying to come up with a clever way of blanket future proof giving the magic heavy allegiances that don't have their own magic lore a means to compete magically with armies like Tzeentch, Sylvaneth, or Bonesplitterz without going in and tailoring a lore just for one allegiance to use . Definitely didn't mean to draw in the "WHFB is dead, get over it" crowd. Yikes. I was just bringing up the 8 lores because they match the 8 realms we are currently fighting in and it kind of made sense.

[Aelfric]

I would say that rather than thinking in terms of WHFB and AOS, it would be better to think in historical terms - of past, present and future.  We know how magic worked (and changed) when the world was one place and we have some idea of how that altered during the End Times and beyond.  The question really is how will magic alter or adapt in the future as the realms develop;  will they continue as they are or shift towards or away from each other?  Will new magics arise with new races?  I feel sure that, as the races and realms have gradually become more fleshed out, so too will magic.  I doubt it will be as it was in the past, but there again things seldom are and, to me, that means something new and exciting to discover on the journey.

[AverageBoss]

7 hours ago, GammaMage said:

In my experience, the people who most want extra spells / generic lores of magic are the Seraphon and Darkling Coven players, which are caster intensive armies without their own lores. I am one of them. It is kinda annoying that I'm encouraged by coven battleshock rules to play lots of sorceresses, yet can't actually use multiple sorceresses effectively.

Honestly, I was thinking more about Death. I think having a Death lore that the GA could draw from would be one little thing that would help them immensely (and they need quite a bit of help).

[Menkeroth]

Well, Death needs everything, to be honest, magic is not the main problem. But I agree, anyway. And I also think that probably all will get at least their unique spells when they get their own books, which is a good way to travel. More neutral and common spells? I can't say they are that needed, but if they are, then it would be interesting to expand the Time of War sort of approach.