Fyreslayers at FANATIC battle reports

[Andreas]

1 minute ago, Turragor said:

Sounds like he may have made an error with Vanguard wing list and no one noticed

Honestly don't think that would play tremendously  to his advantage or is a terrible result skewing thing either for good or for bad. 

I think it does. The list is horrible. ?

But I would play it anyway, I don't care that much. 

[Turragor]

18 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I think it does. The list is horrible. ?

But I would play it anyway, I don't care that much. 

5 juds instead of last 10 libs. Mayyybe! 

[Andreas]

13 hours ago, Turragor said:

5 juds instead of last 10 libs. Mayyybe! 

I thought his list looked like this with teleporting both 30 Liberator units and it surely looks like that in the pictures but I must have missed something. 

Vandus Hammerhand (280)
Lord-Celestant (100)
30 x Liberators (540)
- Warhammer & Shield
30 x Liberators (540)
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammers
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
Vanguard Wing (200)
Total: 2160 / 2000

So lets hope he played it wrong. ? Or I remember game incorrectly.

[Turragor]

K there'd only be 1 unit allowed to port. The one in  the list /edit i mean the one in the battalion. The other could lightning strike down outside 9 on a 3 plus to deploy. 

If both were that's a big advantage

[jobume]

3 hours ago, Solaris said:

Any specific kind of Stormcast? I'll likely be bringing Seraphon in May, hoping to play you again!

I don't know yet. The internet must tell me how to build them!   Really looking forward to seeing your Seraphon on the table. They look crazy strong.

[Auretious Taak]

On 10/2/2017 at 10:25 PM, Andreas said:

Game 5

My last game in the tournament. I got to play Kharadron Overlords in Starstrike. This was the only game that I felt that I got a really good matchup, this was my game to lose.

He had a standard Barak-Zilfin list with an additional medium boat.

I deployed in a line so he could not deepstrike. He gave me the turn so I moved a bit further up. He didn’t do much, since he waited to see where the stars would land before he deployed his big boat and he didn’t have any good place to deployed it anyway. I won the priority for turn 2 and the star landed in the middle. I moved up to capture it. He tried in his turn to use his small boat and some arkonauts to put some models in the middle to recapture it but the arkonauts died.

In turn three he won the roll and the star landed on my left and his center. He didn’t really have any good option so he droped his big boat on the left to go for my objective. He shoot my skywardens but then he failed the endrinrigger charge and it was my turn. I deployed 30 vulkites and 30 aurics on the left flank and shoot him off the board in two turns. So a major win and 20-0.

Really bad match up for him. I don’t know how he could have won this. I only lost 3 vulkites and my skywardens I think.

 

From what you've described and the pictures shown, it feels like the Pirate dwarf player was not aggressive enough. he had mobility in the frigate and the deep strike, but appears to have hesitated rather then focusing on one flank and doing what damage he could to it before your forces appeared from the tunnels and had their way with the game.  I feel if he had deployed the frigate to a flank and deep struck on that same flank then he could have refused flank pushed with his firepower and perhaps have gained a solid foothold to hold you off and push for objectives as the game moved on. It seems like he saw your force and lost his nerve. He has an alpha striking list and he didn't use it and your force walked all over him as a result.

I've not played fantasy since 6th edition and am still new to Age of Sigmar so please do feel free to criticise the heck out of this and break it down more tactically.

[Auretious Taak]

Edit: This forum is weird, I posted a response and it didn't just post and load me into the thread at the end after the post. Hence the double post and edited out because I can't figure out how to delete the double post.

[Andreas]

8 hours ago, Auretious Taak said:

From what you've described and the pictures shown, it feels like the Pirate dwarf player was not aggressive enough. he had mobility in the frigate and the deep strike, but appears to have hesitated rather then focusing on one flank and doing what damage he could to it before your forces appeared from the tunnels and had their way with the game.  I feel if he had deployed the frigate to a flank and deep struck on that same flank then he could have refused flank pushed with his firepower and perhaps have gained a solid foothold to hold you off and push for objectives as the game moved on. It seems like he saw your force and lost his nerve. He has an alpha striking list and he didn't use it and your force walked all over him as a result.

I've not played fantasy since 6th edition and am still new to Age of Sigmar so please do feel free to criticise the heck out of this and break it down more tactically.

There was probably stuff he could have done differently. One thing he maybe should have done is dropping the big boat in turn 2 so he could have got the double turn and try for the middle objective. By dropping it in the start of turn 3 he set himself up for a double turn against him. Which I got so I was able to attack with this just from my shooting over two turns:

60A, 4+, 3+ (with reroll), rend -1
60A, 3+, 3+ (with reroll), rend -1
90A, 4+, 4+ (with reroll), no rend
30A, 3+, 4+ (with reroll), no rend

That's an average of 66 wounds against 4+ save and I also charged. (A big boat, 9 endrinriggers, 1 admiral, 1 khemist and 20 arkonauts happens to be exactly 66 wounds )

He told me in the beginning of the battle that he didn't like facing durable horde armies and armies that shoots more than him and I got a durable horde army. I was thinking wait until you see me shoot.

[Turragor]

9 hours ago, Auretious Taak said:

From what you've described and the pictures shown, it feels like the Pirate dwarf player was not aggressive enough. he had mobility in the frigate and the deep strike, but appears to have hesitated rather then focusing on one flank and doing what damage he could to it before your forces appeared from the tunnels and had their way with the game.  I feel if he had deployed the frigate to a flank and deep struck on that same flank then he could have refused flank pushed with his firepower and perhaps have gained a solid foothold to hold you off and push for objectives as the game moved on. It seems like he saw your force and lost his nerve. He has an alpha striking list and he didn't use it and your force walked all over him as a result.

In part this but also what Andreas noted. Alpha strike lists want to hit something 'important' in a best case scenario. Then they mop up - the opponent is left fighting uphill.

If they can't get into the juicy targets for any reason (clever deployment or what have you) then the best bet is to start blowing stuff up as best you can.

The real kicker here for the Kharadron list was that Andreas's own alpha strike meant he'd have to come down and deploy with them in mind.

I guess a combination of all things to consider made it hard to do anything other than wait for 'the best moment' to strike but that wasn't going to come.

 

 

 

[Auretious Taak]

45 minutes ago, Turragor said:

In part this but also what Andreas noted. Alpha strike lists want to hit something 'important' in a best case scenario. Then they mop up - the opponent is left fighting uphill.

If they can't get into the juicy targets for any reason (clever deployment or what have you) then the best bet is to start blowing stuff up as best you can.

The real kicker here for the Kharadron list was that Andreas's own alpha strike meant he'd have to come down and deploy with them in mind.

I guess a combination of all things to consider made it hard to do anything other than wait for 'the best moment' to strike but that wasn't going to come.

In such situations you focus and take out as much of the counter-alpha strike (aka the Beta Strike) as you can with your own alpha strike.

Now, as Andreas said in the report in question, "I deployed in a line so he could not deepstrike.".  This is not true. the aetherendrinns allow you to deploy 9.1" away from the enemy and so long as your embarked units disembarking stay at that range minimum then they, like all the guns on the Ironclad, are in range to fire that turn. Looking at how Andreas deployed, and the terrain on the field, if the KO player had set up on the rightf lank (relative to Andreas) and used the buildings as line of sight blockers to instead channel firepower of the entire army into a fairly solid chunk of the fyreslayers then 2 things would be apparent - 1, the units shot would likely have perished, thus minimising a lot of return attacks for the beta strike, and the Fyreslayer skywardens would not have been in range for a charge on the KO's and thus could be ignored by the KO's for a turn or two worth of firepower elsewhere. I get that the double turn is a thing, but the double turn is a 50/50 chance and if you rely on it occurring rather then relying on the strength of your army and how you use the battlefield to your advantage, then you've already lost the majority of your games. It's equally feasible that the double turn will not occur for anyone and thus you have a good old fashioned my turn your turn, and with armies where they both can focus a lot of firepower and attacks wherever they choose, you, as the alpha striker rather then the beta striker need to not only inflict solid damage on the opening turn but do what you can to minimise the incoming damage before moving forwards.

With all this in mind, it feels like the KO player wasn't the best of players, he also advertised to his opponent *waves at Andreas* that he was not confident in facing his army and this, in a competitive tournament can be capitalised upon by more so then usual focusing down units as well as light hearted smack talk, mind games can be a thing and the mentality of the KO player was already in a losing frame of mind, this will have contributed to the poor choices he made such as bringing the Ironclad and a significant chunk of his army down on the 3rd turn rather then the first. I get that he played for the objective, but he also recognised what the fyreslayer army could do and in such a case he needed to instead of focusing the early objectives, focus on doing as much damage to the enemy's abilities to table him such that he had a hope in the wastes of actually being able to claim the objectives rather then having nothing left which happened.

Good game play there though Andreas, but be aware that in the future, deploying in a straight line against a deep striking army is not as strong as you seem to think, as more so it encourages the deep striker to refuse flank you and force you to turn around and march a whole mess of your army across the board over several turns to become an effective force multiplier rather then relative dead weight.

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Auretious Taak said:

In such situations you focus and take out as much of the counter-alpha strike (aka the Beta Strike) as you can with your own alpha strike.

Now, as Andreas said in the report in question, "I deployed in a line so he could not deepstrike.".  This is not true. the aetherendrinns allow you to deploy 9.1" away from the enemy and so long as your embarked units disembarking stay at that range minimum then they, like all the guns on the Ironclad, are in range to fire that turn. 

What I ment was that he needed to deploy outside of my line since there was no place inside my line. The range was less than 9" from the table edge or less than 18" from another unit. Also to rember is that my alpha strike was newer going to deployed before he deployed since I was (or was going to be) in control of more objectives so he was going to take a huge amount of damage no matter what before he could retaliate. The "fairly solid chunk of the fyreslayers" appeares after he deploys his boat.

What he could do is killing 30 vulkites (330pt) but that is not an easy task. 5+ rerollable save (4+ in combat) and 4+ ward and immune to battleshock. And frankly it would not matter. 

I am not saying there is no way for him to win, I am just saying the odds is hugely stacked against him in this matchup.

[Auretious Taak]

Very nice back and forth analysis here though. I'm more competitively minded so like pulling things apart. As I'm coming back to fantasy after such a long hiatus, such discussions are very useful. Cheers mate.

[MacDuff]

 I still remember the first year criticisms of AOS: "There are no tactics!" And "Combat always ends with a big mosh pit in the middle!" You've come a long way, baby. Haha.