Another poor showing for Destruction

[bonzai]

3 hours ago, Killamike said:

Out of curiosity what are the hard counters to a kunnin rukk?

1. Armies that can alpha/snipe characters is the first weakness. Take off 6 wounds on the warboss with its 6++ save, and you have reduced their output by half. 

2. Units like Fulminators walk through their shooting and laugh. A 2+ rerollable save takes an insane amount of shots to go through.  180 shots hitting on 5's on average leads to 60 hits. With 4+'s to wound that leads to 30 wounds. With a 2+ save you get 5 failed saves, and with a re-roll your lucky to get one damage to go through. Seraphon also have a 2+ re-rollable build, and there could be more.

3. Alpha strike damage. Every 2 wounds you get through on arrow boys is a potential 6 shots a turn you have taken away. If you can close the gap and alpha or beta strike them, it can take away from their out put.

4. Any kind of negative to hit buffs also hurts them. That changes those 60 hits down to 30 hits, 15 wounds, which is much more manageable.

5. Progressive objective games. The Rukk has to stick together for their synergies to work, which keeps it blobbed up. A single Rukk is about 1,000 points now. A fast army that can score early objectives can build up an early lead and keep it.

There could be other vulnerabilities, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

 

[WoollyMammoth]

Destruction took a big hit because everyone is poo pooing them (power to you positive players who are not!). Almost everything took a hit.

 

9 hours ago, bonzai said:

The first thing I thought when looking at the roster was a lot of people were trying out their Flesh Eater cult armies again. Good on them! This caused there to be a disproportionate amount of them. I am sure that they did get better,  but it' hard to say by how much. Frankly as the ONLY death battle tome 2 years into the game, it needed a boost!

......

Kunning Rukk was always a spoiler list. It won hard against a lot of things, but lost hard to its counters. As such it was great at RT's but rarely did great at GT's where they were more likely to encounter them. The Kunning Rukk did get nerfed, but the sad fact is that it makes little difference. It went from 180 shots down to 120. It' still going to do what it was doing before, and any price hikes are lessened by smaller unit size and not having to take normal boys as a tax.  Its the rest of the faction that took the bigger hits. Without the Kunning Rukk the army is probably tier 3 at best.  Expect more of the same, only more mono build as they have tighter points restrictions to work with.

FEC did not receive a significant boost. They got nerfed like the rest of them, losing out on their essential 5++ and adding 100 points to their battalions. Their points went up and down so that lists look the same. The only thing that puts them in a good place right now is that they have not been nerfed hard into the mud like many others.

Kunnin Rukk is more than just less shots. It used to be 360 shots per turn at 4+/4+. Now it is 240 shots per turn at 5+/4+. Lots of point increases. Its not super great right now. It used to be an insanely powerful army when combined with 3 thundertusks. Most people brought stonehorns and played aggressive, which was not that great. Playing defensive with 3 Thundertusks was the most insane list I've ever played. 

Destruction is fine. Kunnin rukk still dishes out insane shooting. Orruk Brutes are a really solid unit. If people actually commit to an all BCR list it has a lot to offer. Goblins have a really solid list. Destruction is in a good place, the only thing it is lacking is confidence.  

Is there any way to see info on these death lists that did well?

 

[Ollie Grimwood]

The event or Death section I'd suggest. 

[Kanamorf]

Not really representative but Cheltenham Warchiefs had their second Mini Waaaagh last night. It is a one evening 3 game 700 pts tournament. 50 mins a game played on 4x4 tables. All done in 4 hours. Its a complete blast. We have 14 players last night and the results are as follows

 

 

3 destruction out of 14 players is not a bad showing.

 

I took a slight mad list with my Bonesplittaz

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz

Leaders
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
Wardokk (100)

Battleline
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (160)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (160)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (160)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 700 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

For me this was as much a practice run of some of the scenarios for this weekend at Facehammer. I am taking my Bonesplitterz but am still not 100% set on my list.

Fingers crossed I do not bump into too many Stardrakes with Mirror Shields this weekend

 

 

 

[Sangfroid]

Was a great little event as always at the Warchiefs I came third from bottom with Da Ghostwulfz, my list was 

Megaboss (Skargut) ironclad, boss skewer

5 brutes (Gamgor and 2" weapons) 

5 brutes (choppas and Boss Klaw)

5 brutes (choppas and boss Klaw)

=680

while my final result seems terrible I actually had a good run with the ironjawz competing very well overall. I played @Kanamorf game one and thanks to a Hail Mary charge my turn 1 and a double turn manage to get the major. 

In my second game against phils stormcast I played the perfect game but the dice failed me (those who know me know how much I hate that phrase but in this instance they really did 5 brutes with a a waaagh and rerolling failed wounds from mystical did 0 wounds to a venator and 4 brutes did 1 wound to a relictor, kill those and its auto win because we were playing duality of death) I still killed everything except the relictor by the end of the game though ;-) 

my third game was agains my own Da Ghostwulfz a new guy had no army so I lent him some ironjawz he won every priority and so in a mirror match if you get to fight first with your brutes there is only going to be one outcome. A nice aside though he had a great time and using Rotgor managed to kill Skargut in a Megaboss off, which tbh is how I've have always found my 2 footboss work!

overall not bothered by the loss of the Ironfist but am really now worried about the loss of Warchanters from my lists and may need to rethInk a bit for FHGT

[Solaris]

14 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

Mostly the rukk chewed up melee foot slogging armies (like Khorne for example).  Gets hundreds of shots like while they cross the board and then presents hundreds of wounds for them to chew through when they get there.  

It had trouble against other shooting lists that could  snipe out the Big Boss and out range it with better long distance fire power (like the pre-nerf Skyfire lists).

Another counter to the Rukk is armies that are fast enough to get into combat with the Arrowboys and have enough shooting to blow any screens out of the way. Any big melee threat that can get into contact with the Rukk is simply going to melt it.

Edit: These are the three highest placing Death lists.

[Sheriff]

5 minutes ago, Solaris said:

Another counter to the Rukk is armies that are fast enough to get into combat with the Arrowboys and have enough shooting to blow any screens out of the way. Any big melee threat that can get into contact with the Rukk is simply going to melt it.

So as Spiderfang, I just shoot 60 arrows at the rukk boss, and charge the arrowboys with my spiderbros? 

If I take out the general/boss guy can I just ignore the arrow boys and focus another threat instead? 

[Solaris]

3 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

So as Spiderfang, I just shoot 60 arrows at the rukk boss, and charge the arrowboys with my spiderbros? 

If I take out the general/boss guy can I just ignore the arrow boys and focus another threat instead? 

If you can reach the Rukk boss with your arrows, then go for it. If he deploys well, the boss will be well out of your 16" range however. If you can kill 10-20 Arrowboys, there will be very little for you to worry about after, so that's usually what I aim for. Shoot the arrows at his screen to ensure that you are able to reach the Arrowboys with your charge, then break his back in melee.

[Sheriff]

6 minutes ago, Solaris said:

If you can reach the Rukk boss with your arrows, then go for it. If he deploys well, the boss will be well out of your 16" range however. If you can kill 10-20 Arrowboys, there will be very little for you to worry about after, so that's usually what I aim for. Shoot the arrows at his screen to ensure that you are able to reach the Arrowboys with your charge, then break his back in melee.

Okay thanks for the tip. Spiderbros have a good movement range of 8 inches, and get the rampaging destroyers move boost half the time too, so hopefully can get into combat fast. 

[Solaris]

16 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Okay thanks for the tip. Spiderbros have a good movement range of 8 inches, and get the rampaging destroyers move boost half the time too, so hopefully can get into combat fast. 

The most important part is not getting shot at before you get into combat. With the crappy save of Spiderfang Grots, you will really be at a disadvantage against a Kunnin Rukk and be forced to outmaneuver him.

[Sheriff]

1 minute ago, Solaris said:

The most important part is not getting shot at before you get into combat. With the crappy save of Spiderfang Grots, you will really be at a disadvantage against a Kunnin Rukk and be forced to outmaneuver him.

I have 30 of them bundled in one unit, so will have the mystic shield for sure. 4+ save. Best I can do!

[SolarBur]

I've just been having a think while i look through what i have, and what i've got left to build with. Now this might be the ramblings of a savage orruk player, so if that's the case i'm sorry for spouting nonsense

I don't think we've come out of this that badly, destruction on a whole. Yeah, Bonesplitterz and Beastclaw had their own books, so the destruction abilities, artifacts, and traits never really bothered them, they just had to contend with the points changes. In terms of Ironjawz they aren't as fast as they were, the points were fiddled around with, but some of the artifacts and abilities aren't that bad. 

As for destruction on a whole. We gained one big bonus out of all of this. We gained the ability to take allies without the cost of "counts as battleline is army is X Allegiance". Ironjawz have a solid ally with Grot artillery competing against each other. Great for trying to take down key targets before your army reaches theirs. Bonesplitterz who suffered from a lack of rend have access to Troggoths, Monsters and the like which is useful for tearing through armour instead of just spraying and praying with the arrowboys. Only destruction faction that didn't seem to get much is the Gutbusters, but even they have access to Troggoths now so its not that bad. 

We might not have came out as the strongest Grand Alliance, but we aren't worse off in the new GH. All it means now is that we have a chance to experiment more freely with allies and things we might not have taken in the past. If you want to stick to your guns and try to make what worked in the past still work. Go ahead, no problem with doing that either. But right now its still early days, still lots of experimenting to do, and i look forward to seeing some of the new little combination ideas that people come up with ^^

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, SolarBur said:

We might not have came out as the strongest Grand Alliance, but we aren't worse off in the new GH. All it means now is that we have a chance to experiment more freely with allies and things we might not have taken in the past. If you want to stick to your guns and try to make what worked in the past still work. Go ahead, no problem with doing that either. But right now its still early days, still lots of experimenting to do, and i look forward to seeing some of the new little combination ideas that people come up with ^^

Hallelujah  Well spoken.