foolsama Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Rubencm81 said: My Scorch team is 5 flamethrowers ( weapon team) 3 stormfiends with warpfire proyectors and 3 with ratling guns. This is 5d6 mortal wounds+ 6d3 mortal wounds+9d6 rend 1 shots. Add the engineer ability to add +1 to hit with Vigordust injector and well, you have a pretty nasty output damage with the ratlings As allies I took 2 packmasters go to with 3 fiends with shock to keep them as objective catcher. How are you fitting this in 2k points? Just what you've listed I'm at 2150, and you're missing units for a second coven (battalion requires two). At 2500 points, Skorch all the way - for sure.Arch Warlock (140)Warlock Engineer (100)Warlock Engineer (100)Packmaster (80)Packmaster (80) Clan Skryre (100)Gautfyre Skorch (150)6 x Stormfiends (600)1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (100)5 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (350)Other Coven? (50)3 x Stormfiends (300) ?? ?? Total: 2150 / 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubencm81 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 My bad, we were playing 2500 that day, just reviewed the list. Anyway, I think it can be fitted someway to 2k. Maybe alongside with a cheap coven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanax Lot Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, foolsama said: OK, that's not a bad list at all... but it's not the Skryre batallion Yup, its a chaos list.... I dont find the skyre alliance to be very efficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsama Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Right, which was my point. Having a strong Skorch leaves your backfield waaay to weak. My list was:Allegiance: Skaven SkryreArch Warlock (140)- General- Trait: Masterful Scavenger - Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator Clan Skryre (100)Gautfyre Skorch (150)Warlock Engineer (100)3 x Stormfiends (300)3 x Stormfiends (300)1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (100)3 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (210)Rattlegauge Warplock (50)Warlock Engineer (100)5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Total: 1970 / 2000 As you can imagine, as soon as the Seraphon player teleported *anything* to my back field, it didn't survive long enough to hold an objective. I don't trust Mortars - 25% chance to wound (or thereabouts) is *terrible* and in no way worth relying on, and using 400 points for a battalion means 3 less stormfiends to hold an objective. Acolytes are garbage - even in large numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubencm81 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 36 minutes ago, foolsama said: Right, which was my point. Having a strong Skorch leaves your backfield waaay to weak. My list was:Allegiance: Skaven SkryreArch Warlock (140)- General- Trait: Masterful Scavenger - Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator Clan Skryre (100)Gautfyre Skorch (150)Warlock Engineer (100)3 x Stormfiends (300)3 x Stormfiends (300)1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (100)3 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (210)Rattlegauge Warplock (50)Warlock Engineer (100)5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Total: 1970 / 2000 As you can imagine, as soon as the Seraphon player teleported *anything* to my back field, it didn't survive long enough to hold an objective. I don't trust Mortars - 25% chance to wound (or thereabouts) is *terrible* and in no way worth relying on, and using 400 points for a battalion means 3 less stormfiends to hold an objective. Acolytes are garbage - even in large numbers. What if you drop 5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70) and add 3 stormfiends, 1 rattling gun and 1 unit of jezzails to keep your objective using the other cheap scroll. I think it is 2k points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 40 minutes ago, foolsama said: Right, which was my point. Having a strong Skorch leaves your backfield waaay to weak. My list was:Allegiance: Skaven SkryreArch Warlock (140)- General- Trait: Masterful Scavenger - Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator Clan Skryre (100)Gautfyre Skorch (150)Warlock Engineer (100)3 x Stormfiends (300)3 x Stormfiends (300)1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (100)3 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (210)Rattlegauge Warplock (50)Warlock Engineer (100)5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Total: 1970 / 2000 As you can imagine, as soon as the Seraphon player teleported *anything* to my back field, it didn't survive long enough to hold an objective. I don't trust Mortars - 25% chance to wound (or thereabouts) is *terrible* and in no way worth relying on, and using 400 points for a battalion means 3 less stormfiends to hold an objective. Acolytes are garbage - even in large numbers. Have you considered allying in some clanrats to chaff your backfield? If your opponent drop behind your front lines, you can tie the unit up with the clanrats for a turn or two while everything else unloads on the attacking unit. How you get the points for it is up to your preference, but I think that would solve your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsama Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I solve the problem by not taking the battalion, hah. Skaven are so incompetent, you can't take just one of anything and rely on it. Taking 1 unit of 3 jezzails is silly (if you're not taking 9, you're wasting points, and if you're taking Jezzails you should absolutely be taking Lord of War and not Skryre), and since clanrats *must* be taken in groups of 20 now, fitting that many points in requires too many sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, foolsama said: I solve the problem by not taking the battalion, hah. Skaven are so incompetent, you can't take just one of anything and rely on it. Taking 1 unit of 3 jezzails is silly (if you're not taking 9, you're wasting points, and if you're taking Jezzails you should absolutely be taking Lord of War and not Skryre), and since clanrats *must* be taken in groups of 20 now, fitting that many points in requires too many sacrifices. I do agree on the battallion drop. It's too much of a glass cannon for my taste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Hi guys. I got a Spire of Dawn box and want to go on from here. I plan to add Stormfiends and a WLC for a 1000 point list: 1 x Arch Warlock 1 x Packmaster 20 x Clanrats 20 x Clanrats 3 x Stormfiends 1 x Poison Wind Mortar 1 x Warplightning Cannon = 1000 Points Can you run that? I want to build up on this core, to get the new Packmaster/Stormfiend meta list that is discussed here. In general I have a question to the Poison Wind Mortar: Is it worth taking over Rattling guns and Jezzails? Just 1 attack, I know, but it hits far and hard. Another question: isn't a second Warplightning cannon better than a unit of jezzails? It's just 40 points difference and I guess the WLC does ~2-3 MW's each round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Spiny Norman said: Hi guys. I got a Spire of Dawn box and want to go on from here. I plan to add Stormfiends and a WLC for a 1000 point list: 1 x Arch Warlock 1 x Packmaster 20 x Clanrats 20 x Clanrats 3 x Stormfiends 1 x Poison Wind Mortar 1 x Warplightning Cannon = 1000 Points Can you run that? I want to build up on this core, to get the new Packmaster/Stormfiend meta list that is discussed here. In general I have a question to the Poison Wind Mortar: Is it worth taking over Rattling guns and Jezzails? Just 1 attack, I know, but it hits far and hard. Another question: isn't a second Warplightning cannon better than a unit of jezzails? It's just 40 points difference and I guess the WLC does ~2-3 MW's each round The jezzails have longer range, and only need a single 6 or more to hit to match(ish) the average output of the lightning cannon. It's more about preference, in this case I think. Personally I prefer to ally in some plagueclaws if I want artillery/long range threats, but that is also just a preference Edit: not that you have to worry about allies with your list, since it can only be run as chaos alliegence (the two clanrats come at 240pts, putting you 40 pts past the ally limit - but chaos allegiance is just as good unless you had some very specific command traits/artifacts in mind. The lord of war trait can work particularly well with stormfiends (or artillery), and opens up for a potential lucky +2 (+3 with packmaster) to hit bonus via the chaos allegiance destructor thing (roll a dice each time one of your units declare attack, on a 6, gain +1 to hit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Anybody seen info on the Skyre list that did well at the Warhammer World GT? Was just wondering what that list was rocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 18 hours ago, Mayple said: The jezzails have longer range, and only need a single 6 or more to hit to match(ish) the average output of the lightning cannon. It's more about preference, in this case I think. If you talking about the 1/6 odds: 2 MW's on a single Jezzails is less likely than 6 MW's on a WLC. I didn't do the in-depth math but overall: Jezzails: 1/2 chance to hit -- then 1/6 to roll a 6 = 1/12 chance to do 2 MW's. Assuming you have 3 Try's with the jezzails, you assumingly get 0,23 = ~roughly 1/4 chance to roll at least 2 MW's WLC: 1/6 chance to roll a powerdice1 = 1/6 chance do 6 MW's. The chance of rolling 2 MW's is quite highter than ~1/4 (no math done) Overall just the MW output, not considering range, normal wound or pointcost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 They do mortal wounds on hit rolls not wound rolls. I think that jezzails are ok-ish. They need to be buffed from lord of war in order to be effective, otherwise they are just worse longstrykes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 hours ago, shadowgra said: They do mortal wounds on hit rolls not wound rolls. I think that jezzails are ok-ish. They need to be buffed from lord of war in order to be effective, otherwise they are just worse longstrykes. I do think that ''will it be buffed?'' Is an important question one must ask when choosing between unbuffable mortal wound output (warpfire, warplightning) or buffable damage (shock gauntlets, acolytes, jezzails) in a Skryre list. So in effect, if one wants to use jezzails in any large number, one would need to buff them somehow - which might, as an example of the trade-off being made, remove the viability of including shock gauntlet stormfiends in that same list, since you can't buff both (which is fixed by bringing packmasters along) tl;dr: can you buff it? Bring damage. Are you not able to buff it? Bring mortal wounds. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 55 minutes ago, Mayple said: I do think that ''will it be buffed?'' Is an important question one must ask when choosing between unbuffable mortal wound output (warpfire, warplightning) or buffable damage (shock gauntlets, acolytes, jezzails) in a Skryre list. So in effect, if one wants to use jezzails in any large number, one would need to buff them somehow - which might, as an example of the trade-off being made, remove the viability of including shock gauntlet stormfiends in that same list, since you can't buff both (which is fixed by bringing packmasters along) tl;dr: can you buff it? Bring damage. Are you not able to buff it? Bring mortal wounds. Thoughts? Good insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sastopher Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I think some of the numbers and assumptions about Stormfiends in this thread are a little off and I want to correct them. Not counting for rend, Shock Gauntlets do more average damage than Grinderfists, even unmodified by Packmasters. For a single hit (scale everything up by multiplying by 4 if you want to see these numbers on a per/model basis): P(Hit) * P(Damage) * Wounds = Expected outcome (2/6 + (1/6 * 7/2)) * (4/6) * 2 = 11/9 = 1.22 Shock Gauntlets (3/6) * (4/6) * 3 = 1 Grinderfirsts It's probably obvious that, with bonuses, Shock Gauntlets scale better: Bonus | Shock Gauntlets | Grinderfists 0 | 11/9 = 1.22 | 1 1 | 18/9 = 2 | 4/3 = 1.33 2 | 25/9 = 2.78 | 5/3 = 1.67 3 | 30/9 = 3.33 | 5/3 = 1.67 4 | 35/9 = 3.89 | 5/3 = 1.67 So just from a pure "average damage output" consideration, Shock Gauntlets do better. It's of course, important to consider their differences in rend (-1 shock gauntlets vs -2 grinderfists) and utility (grinderfist setup ability). For what it's worth, these Shock Gauntlet numbers are really really high. At +4, they do 47 damage on average before saves. Most of the time, they completely evaporated whatever they fought against. The only thing that can really stand up to this is the occasional 1+ re-rollable save and some undead stuff with lots of stacked ward saves. I took the following Moulder list to Adepticon last year and did pretty well with it: LEADERS Throt The Unclean (100) - General Packmaster (60) - Shock - Artefact : Crown of Conquest Packmaster (60) - Shock - Artefact : Doesn't matter Packmaster (60) - Shock Packmaster (60) - Shock Packmaster (60) - Shock UNITS Giant Rats x 36 (180) Giant Rats x 36 (180) Giant Rats x 6 (30) Rat Ogors x 2 (120) Rat Ogors x 2 (120) Stormfiends x 3 (300) - Warplaced Armour & Shock Gauntlets Stormfiends x 3 (300) - Warplaced Armour & Shock Gauntlets MONSTERS Hell Pit Abomination (300) BATTALIONS Moulder Clawpack (40) TOTAL POINTS: 1970 / 2000 Throt (now compendium'ed out) granted a 2nd pile-in for double the hurt and people were astounded at the damage output. The list had a few weaknesses, the biggest of which is that packmasters aren't incredibly durable and required a tight formation around the stormfiends. Regardless, this list did one thing well: it hit hard. To bring this back on-topic to Skryre: I've been toying around with an idea of importing 5xPackmaster (for 400 allied points) into a Skryre shell, using summoning to bolster Skryre's otherwise anemic front lines. Giant rants were perfect for this role because they were cheap, disposable, and still hit really hard on their own, but in Skryre you might use summoned plague bearers and fill in some rattling cannons and acolytes for ranged support. I haven't done much testing, but I think this could be pretty strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Yep Shock Gauntlets are one of the few remaining mega combos. Did get nerfed from the deletion of Throt though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Watch your hero count though with 5 Packmasters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 13 hours ago, Sastopher said: I think some of the numbers and assumptions about Stormfiends in this thread are a little off and I want to correct them. Not counting for rend, Shock Gauntlets do more average damage than Grinderfists, even unmodified by Packmasters. For a single hit (scale everything up by multiplying by 4 if you want to see these numbers on a per/model basis): P(Hit) * P(Damage) * Wounds = Expected outcome (2/6 + (1/6 * 7/2)) * (4/6) * 2 = 11/9 = 1.22 Shock Gauntlets (3/6) * (4/6) * 3 = 1 Grinderfirsts It's probably obvious that, with bonuses, Shock Gauntlets scale better: Bonus | Shock Gauntlets | Grinderfists 0 | 11/9 = 1.22 | 1 1 | 18/9 = 2 | 4/3 = 1.33 2 | 25/9 = 2.78 | 5/3 = 1.67 3 | 30/9 = 3.33 | 5/3 = 1.67 4 | 35/9 = 3.89 | 5/3 = 1.67 So just from a pure "average damage output" consideration, Shock Gauntlets do better. It's of course, important to consider their differences in rend (-1 shock gauntlets vs -2 grinderfists) and utility (grinderfist setup ability). For what it's worth, these Shock Gauntlet numbers are really really high. At +4, they do 47 damage on average before saves. Most of the time, they completely evaporated whatever they fought against. The only thing that can really stand up to this is the occasional 1+ re-rollable save and some undead stuff with lots of stacked ward saves. I took the following Moulder list to Adepticon last year and did pretty well with it: LEADERS Throt The Unclean (100) - General Packmaster (60) - Shock - Artefact : Crown of Conquest Packmaster (60) - Shock - Artefact : Doesn't matter Packmaster (60) - Shock Packmaster (60) - Shock Packmaster (60) - Shock UNITS Giant Rats x 36 (180) Giant Rats x 36 (180) Giant Rats x 6 (30) Rat Ogors x 2 (120) Rat Ogors x 2 (120) Stormfiends x 3 (300) - Warplaced Armour & Shock Gauntlets Stormfiends x 3 (300) - Warplaced Armour & Shock Gauntlets MONSTERS Hell Pit Abomination (300) BATTALIONS Moulder Clawpack (40) TOTAL POINTS: 1970 / 2000 Throt (now compendium'ed out) granted a 2nd pile-in for double the hurt and people were astounded at the damage output. The list had a few weaknesses, the biggest of which is that packmasters aren't incredibly durable and required a tight formation around the stormfiends. Regardless, this list did one thing well: it hit hard. To bring this back on-topic to Skryre: I've been toying around with an idea of importing 5xPackmaster (for 400 allied points) into a Skryre shell, using summoning to bolster Skryre's otherwise anemic front lines. Giant rants were perfect for this role because they were cheap, disposable, and still hit really hard on their own, but in Skryre you might use summoned plague bearers and fill in some rattling cannons and acolytes for ranged support. I haven't done much testing, but I think this could be pretty strong. It is an interesting approach, for sure if you botch a summoning roll, you might be pretty schrewed. In that case, perhaps adding more numbers to your acolytes can actually aid you two-fold: it takes focus away from your packmaster, and gives you a large blob to push forward with inspiring presence, which will annihilate stuff if ignored, and if not ignored, takes damage otherwise meant for your packmasters. Effectively making them your tank unit because your opponent WANT to shoot them. Plague bearers are likely to be ignored as much as possible (lessening their overal value for what you need them to do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Hey guys, I have a little question before assembling my Clanrats: Do you get them with spears or swords? I would probably mix them to field a few swords in front row and back them with spears b/c of the 2" range. Is this the right way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Spiny Norman said: Hey guys, I have a little question before assembling my Clanrats: Do you get them with spears or swords? I would probably mix them to field a few swords in front row and back them with spears b/c of the 2" range. Is this the right way? Hey! To answer your question, it is generally agreed upon that large units are better with spears (40) and small units are better with swords (20). Now this was more well defined in ghb 2016 where you could take a unit of 10 clanrats and swords were definitely better at that size. The minimum size is now 20 in ghb2017, which is probably the borderline between swords and spears. Therefore, at a size of 20, its less well defined about which is better and probably makes little difference. Id just model with spears in case you want to use them in bigger units. To address another point. Clanrats cannot be mixed. All models must have spears OR swords. Although some units in the game can be mixed (such as stormfiends), clanrats are not one of those units. Finally, just so you know, i think youve posted this in the wrong area. This tends to be a chat around clan skryre. Not to say you cant ally in clanrats, but your question may be more fitting in the "lets chat, skaven" thread. just for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I'm sure Clan Skyre survives a clanrat question. Thank you mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 16 hours ago, Spiny Norman said: I'm sure Clan Skyre survives a clanrat question. Thank you mate. Yes, they will live through a clanrat question :p. I remember reading somewhere in the forums, burried away somewhere, someone did the maths on spears vs swords for clanrats. Its a good read if you can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Had a fun game with a local guy. He was running a typical Soulblight list with a lot of Blood Knights. I ran a pretty typical Clan Skyre list with the double Packmaster buffing a unit of 6 Stormfiends with Shock Gauntlets along with another unit of 6 Stormfiends with Warpfire Throwers and 4 Poison Wind Mortars. It was Battle Of The Pass and I ended up losing 26-24 on objectives but I had a great moment with the new Skyre allegiance ability. His VLoZD was reeking havoc getting ready to kill my Arch Warlock general when a Poison Wind Mortar turned into a deadeye sniper. I only had 1 Mortar left and he hit the VLoZD on a 4+, 4+. The VLoZD failed both his saves and I rolled a 6!!!!!!!!!!!! I then doubled it to 12 and he died as he had 2 wounds from an Arcane Bolt. BOOOOOOOOM. It was fantastic. I love the new Skyre allegiance ability it makes for some awesome gaming moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 5.10.2017 at 4:58 AM, Xanax Lot said: Just had a battle aginst Khorne... The guy brough some bloodwarriors, wrathmongers, vanguard, blood secrator, 2 aspiring deathbringuers, the guy thst revives and archaon And my list was: Chaos Alliance: - Verminlord Corruptor ( general, +1 to wound, and 6+ to wound causes mortal wounds) - Arch Warlock - warlock - 2 Pack mastesrs - 3 x (20) Clanrats -6 Stormfiends with shockgauntles -1 warplightning cannon - 3 rattling guns On 5.10.2017 at 4:58 AM, Xanax Lot said: [........] I really recoment this list! I am really curious how this list fares against Ironjawz and Blades of Khorne. I know about the potential of the Stormfiends, but I hardly can believe that you bring enough to the table to kill, let's say a Gorepilgrims + 20 Bloodletter, 30 Bloodletter, Fury of Khorne list with 2 Bloodstokers. He will probably be in your range units by turn 2 (latest) and can you really win a game with Stormfiends alone? Or let's say the typical IJ Mawcrusha, GoreGruntas and Brute list..... Does anyone have experience how Skryre does against these type of hard hitting lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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