Pile-in when already in contact

[pancerek]

Hi all,

I know this has already been settled in the FAQ but as I'm not an English native speaker I have troubles with understanding the wording of Games Workshop errata.

In the FAQ there is:
"Q: If you are already in contact with a model, do you still get to pile in and rotate around the enemy units?
A: No."

Does the phrase "get to" mean here "have to" or "may"? 

My general understanding of the battlefield is that when I have larger army than the enemy, I do everything to surround the enemy and outflank him. Therefore, when I attack a 5-model unit of Retributors with a 10-model unit of Chaos Warriors I assume that:
- in my first combat turn I pile in and get 7 models which can attack (turn 1.png)

- in my second combat turn I would intuitively pile in my models in a way which could allow my further models to attack with full capacity of the unit (turn 2.png)

However, I am not sure if rules let me do that... Are these models from 1 to 7 stuck to their positions until they're slain or I can pile-in them again and again?

[BaldoBeardo]

Pile-in is always optional unless a rule specifies you must for whatever reason.

When piling in, you *must* reduce the distance between the model you are moving and the enemy model it was closest to (regardless of access or position). Moving into contact/closer to a different enemy model is acceptable as long as you meet that condition.
If you are in physical contact (model to model or base to base, depending on how you are playing) you may not move at all as it is not possible to both move *and* reduce the distance to the closest enemy model.
So for example in your diagrams model 3 made an illegal pile-in as it finished the pile-in move further away from the model it was closest to.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[pancerek]

6 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Great answers here.  I did a video a couple months back on the nuances of pile-ing in.  I cover the basics of the Pile In (including base-to-base or locking and rotation) as well as more subtle nuances and advanced uses.  It may or may be helpful to you but I thought I would share it as it seems appropriate.  

 

Thanks, I remember I watched that video on YT once upon a time but as there was no "numbers" on models, I probably was not 100% sure if I get it correctly.

I really appreciate your idea of a tactic in which we can use the rule of "the closest enemy model" to engage additional enemy units in a fight they wouldn't like to enter in the first place. It seems very practical to use when I have some worthless mob and want to distract some of the very important units of my enemy and in the meanwhile secure the objectives with key units of my own

[Thomas Lyons]

Great answers here.  I did a video a couple months back on the nuances of pile-ing in.  I cover the basics of the Pile In (including base-to-base or locking and rotation) as well as more subtle nuances and advanced uses.  It may or may be helpful to you but I thought I would share it as it seems appropriate.  

 

[SuperKick]

Thanks I mostly play the same few guys and we only started doing that a few months back Doh. 

Been playing a little 40k lately, can't decide if i prefer AOS or the 40k approach. AOS is much more nuanced but 40k is simplier. 

[rokapoke]

8 minutes ago, SuperKick said:

Am I right in saying that you don't need to move in a straight line. I.e. my model is 3cm away, i pile in rotating around said model and end 2cm away - therefore closer. I have also created room for a new model as I have rotated not moved in a straight line. 

That's exactly right, @SuperKick, as long as the model that was 3cm away was the closest enemy model to the guy you're moving. 

[SuperKick]

Am I right in saying that you don't need to move in a straight line. I.e. my model is 3cm away, i pile in rotating around said model and end 2cm away - therefore closer. I have also created room for a new model as I have rotated not moved in a straight line. 

[BURF1]

11 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Pile-in is always optional unless a rule specifies you must for whatever reason.

When piling in, you *must* reduce the distance between the model you are moving and the enemy model it was closest to (regardless of access or position). Moving into contact/closer to a different enemy model is acceptable as long as you meet that condition.
If you are in physical contact (model to model or base to base, depending on how you are playing) you may not move at all as it is not possible to both move *and* reduce the distance to the closest enemy model.
So for example in your diagrams model 3 made an illegal pile-in as it finished the pile-in move further away from the model it was closest to.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

4 and 5 would also be illegal.

 

11 hours ago, pancerek said:

Ok, so this one would be however legal?

This is the correct way to do it, provided 2 is actually closer to the first red than the second red.

[WoollyMammoth]

Simple rule: don't touch base unless you have to.

You can pick a few models to lock your opponent in base-to-base so they cannot move, while leaving the sides of the combat loose so you can have more room to wrap around and get more units into combat with each pile-in.

[pancerek]

Thank you all guys for your insights. These helped me a lot

There more I dig in the rules and their factual meaning and interpretations for the game, the more tactical and strategic deepness I notice within the game.

[Squirrelmaster]

Also remember that although moving into contact stops you from making pile-in moves later, it also stops your opponent from piling in. In theory one player will always benefit more from moving up to contact, so in practice there's not much point hanging back if your opponent is just going to close the gap anyway.

[rokapoke]

Just remember that although everybody here has referred to base contact, the rules technically use model-to-model measurements. If, all of the responders (myself included) you measure base-to-base, then base contact means you cannot pile in any closer. If you measure model-to-model, then base contact is meaningless -- you are only prevented from piling in further if the models themselves are touching.

[Aginor]

Yeah, don't move close than you have to. It might be a disadvantage. Don't touch the base if you don't have to.

The above picture looks OK.

[TheOtherJosh]

Ok, so I understand that from the best strategic point of view - always pile in not closer than the required range of the weapon so you could react to the battlefield events. Can this be the motto behind my further games in AoS? [emoji4]

If you're looking at technicality, the key item is "touching the base."

If they're not in contact with the base then, it would be possible to move them around.

[pancerek]

17 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

Per the Rules FAQ v1.1 a model in contact with the enemy cannot move. Here are the clarifications from the FAQ on p. 4

 

Q: How is a pile-in move carried out?

A: When a model piles in it must nish the pile-in move closer to the nearest enemy model. As long as you finish the pile-in move closer to the nearest enemy, you can move around friendly models or obstacles to do so.

 

Q: If you are already in contact with a model, do you still get to pile in and rotate around the enemy units?

A: No.

 

This is clarified by the prior FAQ item:

As long as you finish the pile-in closer to the nearest enemy. If you are touching the nearest enemy, you are in contact with them and therefore cannot pile in any further.

Ok, so I understand that from the best strategic point of view - always pile in not closer than the required range of the weapon so you could react to the battlefield events. Can this be the motto behind my further games in AoS?

[BaldoBeardo]

With the possible exception of 2 as can't tell if it's closer or not. The rest look fine.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[pancerek]

22 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Pile-in is always optional unless a rule specifies you must for whatever reason.

When piling in, you *must* reduce the distance between the model you are moving and the enemy model it was closest to (regardless of access or position). Moving into contact/closer to a different enemy model is acceptable as long as you meet that condition.
If you are in physical contact (model to model or base to base, depending on how you are playing) you may not move at all as it is not possible to both move *and* reduce the distance to the closest enemy model.
So for example in your diagrams model 3 made an illegal pile-in as it finished the pile-in move further away from the model it was closest to.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

Ok, so this one would be however legal?

[TheOtherJosh]

My crude understanding is that you can move 3 inches in the pile in phase every turn. So if 3 of your 5 man unit only make contact, the next turn, the 2 that didn't quite make it, move 3 inches, but I also believe the ones in contact can move 3 too, so that things with different weapons can select different targets they might want to get instead.

 

Per the Rules FAQ v1.1 a model in contact with the enemy cannot move. Here are the clarifications from the FAQ on p. 4

 

Q: How is a pile-in move carried out?

A: When a model piles in it must nish the pile-in move closer to the nearest enemy model. As long as you finish the pile-in move closer to the nearest enemy, you can move around friendly models or obstacles to do so.

 

Q: If you are already in contact with a model, do you still get to pile in and rotate around the enemy units?

A: No.

 

This is clarified by the prior FAQ item:

As long as you finish the pile-in closer to the nearest enemy. If you are touching the nearest enemy, you are in contact with them and therefore cannot pile in any further.

[Nubgan]

My crude understanding is that you can move 3 inches in the pile in phase every turn. So if 3 of your 5 man unit only make contact, the next turn, the 2 that didn't quite make it, move 3 inches, but I also believe the ones in contact can move 3 too, so that things with different weapons can select different targets they might want to get instead.