Malakree Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 5 hours ago, PlasticCraic said: Any reason why you're taking Savage Orruks? I'd be going for Morr Boys every time, personally. It looks like it's specifically for the stikka's giving him the 2" attack range. It's the same argument as Brute weapon choice, Morboyz don't get the spear option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 36 minutes ago, Malakree said: It looks like it's specifically for the stikka's giving him the 2" attack range. It's the same argument as Brute weapon choice, Morboyz don't get the spear option. True, but does that actually help in practice? Let's go with the best case, and say it allows you to get twice as many into combat. You now have the same number of attacks as if you'd just gone with Morr Boys, with a worse profile (all at 4s and 4s, instead of half of them being at 4s and 3s). Once the unit is whittled down, and you are limited by how many bodies you have left, Morr Boys just stretch further and further ahead. Savage Orruks do have a better save when there's an enemy nearby, but there is so much shooting and rend -1 out there that pure Bonesplitterz are often saving on 6s regardless, so the extra bravery that the Morr Boys have makes them if anything slightly more durable in practice, in my experience. Finally the Morr Boys have better warscroll abilities. I'd take them every time, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 You are forgetting that Savage Orruks also reroll failed wound rolls of 1 if there are 20+ which combined with the +1 to save in combat phase means they can potentially fill a niche that the Morboyz don't. That said having looked at both of them properly I agree Morboyz seem to outperform Savage Orruks pretty much across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny13 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Good point. I was thinking the higher save from the shields might be nice, might be able to get Arcane Shield on them too for a nice 4+ in combat. Didn't notice morboys had higher bravery too. When the giant dies that will have more of a benefit as well, all hitting on 3's. Thanks guys! Would it be worth making the smaller unit (10) into arrowboys? Seems like without the full size and support they aren't that good, but it would be nice to have some shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 5 hours ago, PlasticCraic said: True, but does that actually help in practice? Let's go with the best case, and say it allows you to get twice as many into combat. You now have the same number of attacks as if you'd just gone with Morr Boys, with a worse profile (all at 4s and 4s, instead of half of them being at 4s and 3s). Once the unit is whittled down, and you are limited by how many bodies you have left, Morr Boys just stretch further and further ahead. Savage Orruks do have a better save when there's an enemy nearby, but there is so much shooting and rend -1 out there that pure Bonesplitterz are often saving on 6s regardless, so the extra bravery that the Morr Boys have makes them if anything slightly more durable in practice, in my experience. Finally the Morr Boys have better warscroll abilities. I'd take them every time, personally. It's actually pretty close: for 10 morboys, you have a damage output of 5.83, or 7.78 once a monster is dead. for 20 spearman, you have a damage output of 7.5 if all of them are alive, or 5.83 for 20+. Once you get bellow 20 will it goes really down as each dead reduce your damage output as you mentionned. You do however get a better save in combat, and that will serve you better in some strategy like pin and shoot. Also you could take them as part of a kunnin ruk Personnally i like the morboys (it's the model i've painted) cause they can combo well with the bigboss especially once a monster is dead so i can have a melee threath in addition of the arrowboys range threath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 27 minutes ago, Manny13 said: Would it be worth making the smaller unit (10) into arrowboys? Seems like without the full size and support they aren't that good, but it would be nice to have some shooting. Few comments on this. The unit of 10 Morboyz lets you Death Ride twice in a turn potentially killing monsters quicker. If you do want to replace them I would go with another unit of 5 boarboyz, this will a quick unit that can harass poorly defended objectives or defend yours. Plus the boarboyz themselves aren't weak in units of 5. Consider instead taking another hero. A second Wurgogg Prophet would give you 4 spells a turn, at 100 points that's a huge number. Considering bonesplitterz get 6 extra spells to choose from you won't be running out of spells to cast. The ability to Fist of Gork, Arcane Bolt and 2 Unique Bonesplitterz spells every turn is going to be amazingly powerful if used right. A Savage Big Boss would give you a more fighty hero who can duff things up for you. The last real Contender would be a Maniak Weirdnob whose Bone Spirit Spell is an amazing Banner affect that is going to really offset the 4+ to hit rolls. After the Aleguzzlar goes down your Morboyz are looking at 3+ to hit, rerolling 1's or, on a double to cast, rerolling all misses. That's an amazing ability to cast on a 4 which applies to everything within 10" of the Maniak. Overall you have some solid options of which I think the arrowboys are going to be the weakest. My personal vote would be for either the Boarboys, if you want bodys, or the second Prophet, for crazy spell based shenanigans. Kunnnin' Beast spirits on your Morboyz unit is going to annoy the hell out of a ton of opponents (nope no extras on rolling a 6 for you dirty skaven) while Brutal Beast spirits is going to potentially make your Morboyz hit on a 2+! There is always, of course, the option to show your opponent just how much you hate him having heroes by taking Squiggly Curse and Bone Krusha. The two of them and Arcane Bolt aren't going to make you many friends but a potential 3d6+2d3 mortal wounds is a good way to remove those annoying hero types! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuG Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 On 10/5/2017 at 2:59 PM, broche said: I still think the Rogue Idol can be a nice addition. Bonesplitters rely heavily on magic and have no real bonus to casting roll. A +1 to your 3-4 wizard really improve your consistency. Also the +1 to bravery is not just in the battleshock, so it also boost Gorkamorka warcry, so with a prophet you now get a goods odds of stunning 7-8 bravery behemoth, and it should save you couple of model during the game. and model look nice (i like it better than the witch) I agree, I am really looking forwards to making an excuse for my force later in the year. It looks cool and it fits theme buuuut ..... Looking on the app it says that the Idol only affects Greenskinz Wizards and the bravery buff affects Greenskinz models and strangely Bonesplitterz don't have the Greenskinz keyword. Which sucks. Not sure if he's worth taken without those benefits, unless i'm missing anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiky Norman Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, StuG said: I agree, I am really looking forwards to making an excuse for my force later in the year. It looks cool and it fits theme buuuut ..... Looking on the app it says that the Idol only affects Greenskinz Wizards and the bravery buff affects Greenskinz models and strangely Bonesplitterz don't have the Greenskinz keyword. Which sucks. Not sure if he's worth taken without those benefits, unless i'm missing anything? It's not so much that you're missing anything it's that GW missed out on updating the app, because the warscroll has been updated to work for all Orruk and Grot wizards. Check it out there: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Rogue-Idol.pdf It's one of my pet peeves that GW seems to vastly underestimate the usefulness and necessity of having the app be the most current for all things at all times. Oh well, that's another topic. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuG Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just started subscribing to app too because my mate was raving about it lol Thanks man, that's christmas sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Hello guys! trying to get my full Bonesplitterz on. I am a USA tournament regular on the west coast and ran full Bonespliterz at Socal open this weekend. (30 man event, game wise I would say 80% GH2 and FAQs, and 20% TO written side missions for reference. It is very rare, other than LVO (and they will be moving away from straight AOS this year), in the USA to play straight AOS. This is a throwback to many peoples displeasure with GW and feeling the need to comp in 6th-8th ed, discussion for another day) I ran Nicky M.'s Blackout list (single character swap) Allegiance: Destruction Savage Big Boss (120) - General - Stonecleava - Trait: Squirmy Warpaint - Artefact: Glowin Tattooz Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint / Spell: Brutal Beast Spirits Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Spell: Hand of Gork 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) Kunnin' Rukk (160) Reinforcement Points (0) Total: 1960 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 I ran a version of Jack Armstrong's StoneRukk in GH1 with great success. I purely play destruction and was looking for the most competitive list to compete on the top tables under GH2. What I felt with Nicky's list, it was auto win vs non optimized tournament lists and solid vs optimized tournament lists. My loss came vs a standard change host list, I felt I had the tools to compete. Opponent was an excellent player and capitalized on my mistakes, and maybe it would have been a different game if a priority roll would have gone my way (But if your hoping for a double turn to win you probably didn't play well lol). Lost 18-14 on battle for the pass. The list was soul crushing to play though and tough work to finish all 5 turns, It hurt to roll some many dice. I had a 40 man Rukk in my StoneRukk but this felt completely different in terms of needless rolling. Since +1 to hit was generally only on one unit (doubles on spells are sick! FYI USA rarely plays with mystical terrain, for this event there were about 2 pieces of mystical per table, so there was no damned in my games), I found myself rolling 360 shots for the non buffed units that were hitting on 5s wounding on 4s and doing very little for the effort to roll so much. I don't think you need the 4th unit of Arrowboyz and would be better served else where with that 400 points. I really wished I had some long range reach that could just delete a unit. The GH1 Stonehorn had a 12 inch move, d6 run, d6 rampaging destroyer and 2d6 charge. That's about 26 inches (and 36 if you roll hot) of death coming for a unit I wanted off the table. The obvious choices my mind goes to for those points are a Colossal Squig, Rogue Idol, a unit of 8 Big Stabbas ( or 3 units of 2 and a teeth rukk). But the resilience or speed on those units is greatly lacking. I could also just go mega battalion and an extra caster (Turn 1 movement exploits win so many games, either for me and hand of gork and rukk move plus normal move to place a 20 inch flying lined across the table screen or my opponent doing the same thing with Vanguard wing or changehost lol). I think full Bonesplitterz is more competitive than any Mixed Destro I could write, but I am feeling a healthy drop in power from the StoneRukk. Next event will be LVO as long as a few issues get worked out from the guys running it. (Same guys ran Socal open and there were some serious issues with the pack and enforcement of it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 wow you're one courageous dude! i just play one block of arrowboys with a kunnin ruk, and i see dice in my dream after a single day tournament I feel like 4 block of arrowboys are overkill. Agains good matchup 2-3 block will do the same job as one, but you might miss some tools against specific unit that annoy the arrowboys (high rerollable save) like Durthu / Ancient, or maybe lots of Fulminator so you could had big stabba and more wizard to deal with those, and you're army would just be stronger! and you would roll less dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I completely agree with the 2-3 Arrowboyz point, and probably 3 groups of 30. You have to fill battle line anyways. The Stabbas, Rogue Idol, and Colossial Squig are probably to soft or slow... We are not going to kill 2up rerolling save with IP armies no matter what we place down. This list is one drop and can cheat movement like murderhost/vanguard wing/ and changehost, auto win in a few of the missions. Probably the best list and no fun, not for casual games Allegiance: Destruction Savage Big Boss (120) - General - Stonecleava - Trait: Squirmy Warpaint - Artefact: Glowin Tattooz Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Spell: Hand of Gork Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint Spell: ? / (Probably a second hand to be safe) Wurrgog Prophet (140) - Artefact: Da Great Zappa Squiq / Spell: Brutal Beast Spirits 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120) Kunnin' Rukk (160) Bonegrinz Warclan (140) Reinforcement Points (0) Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 10/24/2017 at 7:54 AM, svnvaldez said: Bonegrinz Warclan (140) Reinforcement Points (0) Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 I like it! Bonegrinz is a great shout, I dismissed it in the past, but now that Arrow Boyz are battleline, it's totally legit. Looks really solid. I also like the Zappa Squigg, and doubling up on Hand of Gork is a favourite play of mine too. The only thing I'm wondering is, do you have enough mortal wound output? I like Squiggly Curse personally, because it doesn't require line of sight, and you can potentially sit a wizard in "the pocket", where enemies are in range for your enhanced unbind and Squiggly Curse, but you are out of their range for casting and unbinding. One thing I'm less sure about is the comment that we can't take on the super tanky stuff...I do still think Big Stabbas have a role to play here? They only need to get two or three attacks through (literally) to take down even the biggest stuff. Give them a Hand of Gork, and a 10" flying move is not to be sniffed at. I wouldn't write them off, personally. Although as you said, if you can out drop your opponent, tie them up, and get onto the objectives yourself, you don't necessarily even need to kill them. This looks like a really solid build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said: I also like the Zappa Squigg, and doubling up on Hand of Gork is a favourite play of mine too. The only thing I'm wondering is, do you have enough mortal wound output? Having said that (and as I'm sure you're aware)...if you use the Bonegrinz command trait, your Arrow Boyz will be pumping out mortal wounds by the truckload against monsters! Wow...I really like this list. Great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 After playing a 1 drop, 3 stacked lantern, vanguard wing and a 1 drop, 3 swap, change host that just string out the board I was like "Yeah, I'll just 1 drop and do what your doing." Pass the list on to a U.K. tournament regular and post how it does in a large event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, svnvaldez said: After playing a 1 drop, 3 stacked lantern, vanguard wing and a 1 drop, 3 swap, change host that just string out the board I was like "Yeah, I'll just 1 drop and do what your doing." Pass the list on to a U.K. tournament regular and post how it does in a large event! Yeah I played a Nurgle army that Sayl'd 30x tank-buffed Chaos warriors into me turn 1 at the weekend (I was playing Ironjawz)...tedious doesn't begin to describe it! At least with Kunnin Rukk, you are killing their stuff and losing guys yourself, so the game is advancing and opening up. I'm FB friends with Nicky Myland, so I'll pass the info on. Are you on the Bonesplitterz FB page by any chance? I wouldn't mind posting it on there - and I'll give you the credit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I'm not, Post it! I want to see destruction better represented at large tournaments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I'm not sure of the usefulness of bonegrindz warclan (specially with just arrowboys as melee) I think squiggly curse is a must. You need at least 2 spell to dish out mortal wound it's really important for the sylvaneth matchup. Also it has good range and no line of sight and it's pretty deadly when you roll a double personnally i would drop 10 arrowboys and the bonegrindz, that's 260 pts and a wizard, big stabba or boar, or maybe ally. A wyvern could be nice (12 move, make a good target for arcane shield) or find another 100 pts for Troll hag have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 3:54 PM, svnvaldez said: I completely agree with the 2-3 Arrowboyz point, and probably 3 groups of 30. You have to fill battle line anyways. The Stabbas, Rogue Idol, and Colossial Squig are probably to soft or slow... We are not going to kill 2up rerolling save with IP armies no matter what we place down. This list is one drop and can cheat movement like murderhost/vanguard wing/ and changehost, auto win in a few of the missions. Probably the best list and no fun, not for casual games Allegiance: Destruction Savage Big Boss (120) - General - Stonecleava - Trait: Squirmy Warpaint - Artefact: Glowin Tattooz Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Spell: Hand of Gork Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint Spell: ? / (Probably a second hand to be safe) Wurrgog Prophet (140) - Artefact: Da Great Zappa Squiq / Spell: Brutal Beast Spirits 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120) Kunnin' Rukk (160) Bonegrinz Warclan (140) Reinforcement Points (0) Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 I'm iffy on the bonegrinz, but I can see the appeal. I would be tempted to take it and the 10 Orc unit out and replace it with an allied Orruk Wierdnob Shaman and Balewind vortex. It will get the buffs to cast from being near your arrow boys, and from the vortex, giving it a +3. A 36 inch foot of Gork could be devastating. I would probably change the 3rd arrow boy squad to savage orcs for bubble wrap, free up 60 more points, and add a wardokk. That would put it right back to 2,000 points, and add 2 more casters to the mix. It's probably what I would do if I ran a Kunning Rukk. Only real downside is the number of drops compared to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, bonzai said: I'm iffy on the bonegrinz, but I can see the appeal. I would be tempted to take it and the 10 Orc unit out and replace it with an allied Orruk Wierdnob Shaman and Balewind vortex. It will get the buffs to cast from being near your arrow boys, and from the vortex, giving it a +3. A 36 inch foot of Gork could be devastating. I would probably change the 3rd arrow boy squad to savage orcs for bubble wrap, free up 60 more points, and add a wardokk. That would put it right back to 2,000 points, and add 2 more casters to the mix. It's probably what I would do if I ran a Kunning Rukk. Only real downside is the number of drops compared to yours. I actually really like this idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Same! really smart add. Since that model only casts once do you find yourself hurting spending a turn getting the balewind up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 23/10/2017 at 9:54 PM, svnvaldez said: I completely agree with the 2-3 Arrowboyz point, and probably 3 groups of 30. You have to fill battle line anyways. The Stabbas, Rogue Idol, and Colossial Squig are probably to soft or slow... We are not going to kill 2up rerolling save with IP armies no matter what we place down. This list is one drop and can cheat movement like murderhost/vanguard wing/ and changehost, auto win in a few of the missions. Probably the best list and no fun, not for casual games Allegiance: Destruction Savage Big Boss (120) - General - Stonecleava - Trait: Squirmy Warpaint - Artefact: Glowin Tattooz Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Spell: Hand of Gork Maniak Weirdnob (120) - Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint Spell: ? / (Probably a second hand to be safe) Wurrgog Prophet (140) - Artefact: Da Great Zappa Squiq / Spell: Brutal Beast Spirits 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120) Kunnin' Rukk (160) Bonegrinz Warclan (140) Reinforcement Points (0) Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 practically my list i ran at Facehammer and came 3rd with, apart from prophets are naff. casters with HOG is a must. Dont under estimate the power of 10 boys they are great blockers for protecting your characters from a rear charge, and a turn 5 cap on a game winning objective fly fly charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, nicky said: practically my list i ran at Facehammer and came 3rd with, apart from prophets are naff. casters with HOG is a must. Dont under estimate the power of 10 boys they are great blockers for protecting your characters from a rear charge, and a turn 5 cap on a game winning objective fly fly charge Hi Nicky it's Peter A, welcome to TGA! I didn't realise you'd ran the Bonegrinz at Facehammer, what was your plan for the likes of a tanked up Star Drake? Would the Command Trait give you enough mortal wounds? Did you plan to use damage spells? Or just outdrop them, fly up the board and pin them in place while you cap objectives and delete everything else in their army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said: Hi Nicky it's Peter A, welcome to TGA! I didn't realise you'd ran the Bonegrinz at Facehammer, what was your plan for the likes of a tanked up Star Drake? Would the Command Trait give you enough mortal wounds? Did you plan to use damage spells? Or just outdrop them, fly up the board and pin them in place while you cap objectives and delete everything else in their army? ive practised against Stardrakes and 30 man libs. cant beat the list at all. its a no go for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Facehammer lists aren't posted yet, if only I would have seen it lol! I had to net list your Blackout list and it cost me when I was out dropped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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