Cavalry in Age of Sigmar

[Agent of Chaos]

Chaos Knights have gone from 2+ armour saves to 4+ and are incredibly expensive at 200 points for 5 :-( 

With mark of khorne and a bloodsecrator nearby they can do a little better but almost always end up bogged down after a charge.

True they have a bravery reducing rule but with so many ways to mitigate battleshock tests it can't always be used.

For their points cost I would like to see a 3+ armour save, otherwise a reduction is in order (down to 180 points at least).

Generally speaking I like the idea of cavalry having a guaranteed 6" run, or the ability to run and charge, or a 3D6 charge... something simple to further represent their supposed speed advantage over foot sloggers.

[Jamopower]

They also have now 3 wounds instead of one... Some rend would be nice for Chaos knights, especially as it's quite rare in Slaves to Darkness altogether.

[Kessler]

4 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Generally speaking I like the idea of cavalry having a guaranteed 6" run, or the ability to run and charge, or a 3D6 charge... something simple to further represent their supposed speed advantage over foot sloggers.

All these rules are good and usable, my on wish would be that these are not general rule, but warscroll specific. Ie. that the basic rules stay "light" and all specifics are listed on warscroll. 

That is one of my favorite things in aos rule set: by the table you don't need rulebooks, only few warscrolls. 

The above mentioned rules are listed on some warscrolls already: mournfangs have 3d6 charge special rule, orruk piggies get +2 to charge etc. I'd like to see just some changes to cavalry warscrolls/points and not to general rules. 

[darkspear]

My take on this matter is GW purposedly nerf cavalry on purpose (like most other oldhammer units) so as to push players to buy the newer shinier stuff, especially stormcast.  I too feel that heavy cavalry can do with some rend, perhaps -1 on the charge.

I am fine with monstrous cavalry though, I think they are strong enough.

[Sheriff]

Seems cavalry and even chariots are being added as battle-line to the game in GH2017. 

[Xin]

Chaos Knights are now just 160 for 5 and battleline in StD faction so maybe it's time to spam them? 

[WABBIT]

Nice thread and some good ideas here. I copied this from a Wiki site below and I think it may spark some more ideas on how to make cavalry stand out. At the moment they seem like overpriced infantry with a fast move. I tried using them in my Aelven lists but they never perform well:

"Role of Cavalry. These include scouting, skirmishing with enemy reconnaissance elements to deny them knowledge of own disposition of troops, forward security, offensive reconnaissance by combat, defensive screening of friendly forces during retrograde movement, retreat, restoration of command and control, deception, battle handover and passage of lines, relief in place, linkup, breakout operations, and raiding. The shock role, traditionally filled by heavy cavalry, is generally filled by units with the "armored" designation."

Some suggestions based on the above:

-Cavalry often caused the most damage when it broke the enemy lines and forced a retreat. They would chop down fleeing troops with ease using their speed and superior position on a mount. Perhaps this could be translated into a bonus to Battle Shock on the enemy? An extra D6 for Cavalry type units or add the different in the Cavalry move and the fleeing units move? This means enemy cavalry or any fast unit would fair better when fleeing cavalry charges. 

- Or instead of increased battleshock results cavalry could trigger battleshock if a slower/non cavalry unit retreats?

- Spear armed units could have some defence/counters against cavalry related abilities? 

-Heavy Cavalry like Gore Gruntas and Dragon blades should get more of a buff to charges and light cavalry could be allowed to retreat and charge again on the same turn and therefore retain their lesser charge buffs IF the situation allowed for a retreat and repeat charge. 

-Or maybe an extended Pile in Range when units take battle shock to represent Cavalry chasing down opponents?

-Or If A unit takes a battle shock test within 3" of a Cavalry unit it must add "x" to the result?

-Screen light cavalry could reduce Charge results against them or nearby allies?

-Prevent nearby enemy units charging or piling into friendly units which retreated that turn? (nice combo for wanders there )

-Extend/Reduce Command radius of General/enemy general?

- An increase to charge rolls is needed for all cavalry in my opinion.

- Increase Pile in Move?

 

I use wanderers and I love Wild riders but I don't field them anymore because they always perform badly in every role. They never hit hard enough and cost too much. Their speed just gets them into trouble quicker and grabbing objectives is pointless if they are not tough enough to hold it for a turn. They can manage small enemy battleline units sometimes but any more than 5 WR in a unit and they just cannot maximise their attacks. They don't seem to have a role to play anymore and Wanderers really need a decent shock force which is fast. WR do not have enough attacks, armour or charge buffs to make a difference and other units just do the job better and for less. 

They also stack up very poorly vs other cavalry of the same points value. Check Dragon blades and Gore Gruntas for example and I think you'll agree the points are too high for Wild riders. (I know many people have similar complaints about other units Im just using this as an example). As light shock Cavalry I think they would add a lot of flavour and much needed punch if they could retreat and charge on the same turn. A bit like the Wanderer battle trait to retreat and shoot. It's in keeping I think? They only get a +1 to wound rolls for charging and i feel with spears they really need/deserve a -1 rend on the charge too or double damage like Dragon Blade lances but extra damage may be more appropriate for Heavy cavalry with lances.

Example: (I hope this is allowed I'm not very experienced on this forum and I did read the rules and I've seen others post pts - sorry if its not I will edit)

Gore Gruntas are the same points cost as Wild Riders.

GG - 3 models      WR - 5 models   - So GG have better force concentration but less broad coverage/Threat.

GG - move 9         WR - move 12     - Clearly WR are better at reaching objectives and getting into charge range - they can also run and Charge.

GG - 7 Bravery      WR - 8 Bravery   - WR also get buff to Bravery if in cover and have a standard so potential of 10 BR. I'm Not sure about GG bravery buffs.

GG - 15 wounds   WR - 10 Wounds - GG much tougher

GG - 4+ save         WR - 5+ Save      - GG more resilient multiplying their greater wound total.

 

GG - x12 Mount attacks 4/*4/-/1 (*or D3 Damage if they charged more than 8") and x10 Rider attacks 3/3/-1/1  Per unit

WR - x10 Mount attacks 4/4/-/1 and x11 Rider attacks 3/*4/-/1  (*Riders +1 to wound if charging) Per unit

Conclusion, WR are faster but a lot weaker on attack and defence which gets worse if they haven't charged. They have significantly less wounds and armour making them far too weak to compete. It's the same when comparing Dragon blades. There may be even worse Cavalry than WR out there for the points I haven't checked.  In a game where most things leap across the board very quickly I find cavalry have lost their purpose because many units, even infantry, can often move as fast as them or just teleport around. There is less benefit to flanking and rear charges in AoS (there are some subtle advantages like hitting two flanks at once etc.) Cavalry need a more defined role in AoS and in my example above I suggest the Wild Riders are still overpriced. WR don't have access to many buffs in a Wanderer allegiance army either but the Spell weaver has a spell that returns D3 models which helps a lot. I don't know what Buffs GG have access to and I dare not look  

I hope this isn't seen as a whine, I am trying to be constructive and throw in ideas and not just for my Wild Riders, they are just an example!

[Xin]

I wish there would be competitive Brets full cavalry build