Blades of Khorne FAQ

[Phantajisto]

Feel free to answer any if you know, or add any other questions. Hopefully GW will see and answer in the next FAQ 

 

Command Trait - Violent Urgency = If you charge in the hero phase (using Blood Tithe 3, or the Goretide Aqshy's Bane ability) does it count as the 'charge phase' for the purpose of the rule? 

Banners of Khorne - Banner of Blood = Same as above.

Trophies of War - Talisman of Burning Blood = Same as above.

 

Command Trait - Slaughterborn = When melee attacking in the hero phase, does it count as the 'combat phase' for the purpose of the rule?

Trophies of War - Mark of the Destroyer = Same as above.

 

When combining Mark of the Destroyer + Disciple of Khorne +Rage of Khorne + Slaughter Incarnate + Crimson Haze = Can these abilities be applied in any order the player chooses or must Mark of the Destroyer be applied first? If any order, the Mighty Lord's 3&4 attacks can become 14&16. If not, they become 10&12...

Note:

Mark of the Destroyer = "Double the Attacks characteristics of the bearer's melee weapons."

Disciple of Khorne = "Add 1 to the Attacks characteristics of all melee weapons wielded by your general"

Rage of Khorne = "When they attack, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of all melee weapons used by units affected"

Slaughter Incarnate = "You can add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of all melee weapons units by Khorne Mortal units..." = "

Crimson Haze = "All models within 8" of a Wrathmonger in the combat phase make 1 more attack with each of their melee weapons"

[RuneBrush]

23 minutes ago, Phantajisto said:

Command Trait - Violent Urgency / Banners of Khorne - Banne of Blood / Trophies of War - Talisman of Burning Blood

These abilities trigger "at the start of the Charge phase" which hasn't occurred.  This applies to all rules that trigger based on "at the start of X phase".

23 minutes ago, Phantajisto said:

Command Trait - Slaughterborn + Trophies of War - Mark of the Destroyer

I don't believe so - they're being done in the Hero phase.  This also means your character won't die from MotD either.

23 minutes ago, Phantajisto said:

When combining Mark of the Destroyer + Disciple of Khorne +Rage of Khorne + Slaughter Incarnate + Crimson Haze

You choose the order in which to apply your modifiers, so will want to apply Mark of the Destroyer last for maximum effect.

[Nico]

Quote

Command Trait - Slaughterborn = When melee attacking in the hero phase, does it count as the 'combat phase' for the purpose of the rule?

Special rules that apply in a given phase oddly do not work in a deemed phase within the hero phase (the Free Spirits FAQ). This leads to a whole Pandora's box of odd consequences.

[Phantajisto]

Thanks for the replies. So charges and attacks in the hero phase can't be buffed with phase-specific abilities... Looks like it could get complicated to explain to opponents...

eg. Not a particularly unlikely scenario if running Goretide battalion:

• You have a Mighty Lord with Mark of the Destroyer / Disciple of Khorne (plus Rage of Khorne from a nearby Bloodsecrator)
• In your Hero Phase, he moves D6" towards the enemy, bringing him within 8"
• He uses Aqshy's Bane ability to pile in 8" and attack.
  • He gets 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks via MotD, rerolling 1s to hit (none of the +attack buffs specify combat phase) 
  • He fails to kill anyone, but isn't slain by MotD because this can only happen in the combat phase...
• Still in the Hero Phase, you trigger Tithe 5 Apoplectic Frenzy so he can pile in again and attack again.
  • He gets another 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
  • He again fails to kill anyone, but still isn't slain by MotD because it's still the hero phase.
• (Your Deathbringer and Skullreapers can also move D6" to get within 12" of him and can charge and make 1 attack each against the same enemy unit, using the Slaughterborn battalion ability).
• In your combat phase, the MLK goes first and attacks again.
  • Another 10 axe attacks, and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
  • He again fails to kill anyone, and this time because it's the combat phase, he is finally slain by the MotD artefact and turned into a spawn.

[Jharen]

You pick the order in which abilities are applied when multiple abilities occur at the same time.  Crimson Haze and Rage of Khorne happen in the combat phase.  Mark of the Destroyer and Disciple of Khorne seem to be 'always on' effects, as they have no trigger, so they would be applied first always.  Slaughter Incarnate happens in the hero phase.

Mark of the Destroyer and Disciple of Khorne do need a FAQ I suppose though just to very strictly clarify if these abilities are always on or you choose to turn them off/on but it seems pretty clear to me how they are intended to work.

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Phantajisto said:

Thanks for the replies. So charges and attacks in the hero phase can't be buffed with phase-specific abilities... Looks like it could get complicated to explain to opponents...

eg. Not a particularly unlikely scenario if running Goretide battalion:

• You have a Mighty Lord with Mark of the Destroyer / Disciple of Khorne (plus Rage of Khorne from a nearby Bloodsecrator)
• In your Hero Phase, he moves D6" towards the enemy, bringing him within 8"
• He uses Aqshy's Bane ability to pile in 8" and attack.
  • He gets 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks via MotD, rerolling 1s to hit (none of the +attack buffs specify combat phase) 
  • He fails to kill anyone, but isn't slain by MotD because this can only happen in the combat phase...
• Still in the Hero Phase, you trigger Tithe 5 Apoplectic Frenzy so he can pile in again and attack again.
  • He gets another 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
  • He again fails to kill anyone, but still isn't slain by MotD because it's still the hero phase.
• (Your Deathbringer and Skullreapers can also move D6" to get within 12" of him and can charge and make 1 attack each against the same enemy unit, using the Slaughterborn battalion ability).
• In your combat phase, the MLK goes first and attacks again.
  • Another 10 axe attacks, and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
  • He again fails to kill anyone, and this time because it's the combat phase, he is finally slain by the MotD artefact and turned into a spawn.

While I didn't know this was unclear, this is also the prime reason why I went to the forums and asked if you can choose any ability order for Mark of the Destroyer  

The one thing that is unlikely in the above scenario is that 66 attacks will fail to kill any model, but yes, 22 attacks Mighty Lords of Khorne are nuts and if they ever reach the opponent in this set up it becomes retarded... 

...Then  you realize you can technically also include multiple Mighty Lord of Khorne and ask your TO if they also profit from Agshy's Bane because the wording in the Goretide doesn't specifically say it's one MLoK  

Khul and the Gang: 3 Mighty Lords of Khorne in The Goretide and all with Mark of the Destroyer because why not.

[Phantajisto]

1 minute ago, Killax said:

The one thing that is unlikely in the above scenario is that 66 attacks will fail to kill any model

Hah, you haven't seen my MLK in action

1 hour ago, Jharen said:

Crimson Haze and Rage of Khorne happen in the combat phase.

Good point, even Bloodsecrators have their limitations. I'm considering adding an Aspiring DB and triggering his command ability using the Blood Tithe...

[Killax]

3 hours ago, Phantajisto said:

Feel free to answer any if you know, or add any other questions. Hopefully GW will see and answer in the next FAQ 

1.Command Trait - Violent Urgency = If you charge in the hero phase (using Blood Tithe 3, or the Goretide Aqshy's Bane ability) does it count as the 'charge phase' for the purpose of the rule? 

2.Banners of Khorne - Banner of Blood = Same as above.

3.Trophies of War - Talisman of Burning Blood = Same as above.

4.Command Trait - Slaughterborn = When melee attacking in the hero phase, does it count as the 'combat phase' for the purpose of the rule?

5.Trophies of War - Mark of the Destroyer = Same as above.

6.When combining Mark of the Destroyer + Disciple of Khorne +Rage of Khorne + Slaughter Incarnate + Crimson Haze = Can these abilities be applied in any order.

1. No, not start of the (charge) phase
2. No, not start of the (charge) phase
3. No, not start of the (charge) phase
4. Yes, this phase is now considered the combat phase aswell as the hero phase
5. Yes, this phase is now considered the combat phase aswell as the hero phase
6. Yes, bonkers isn't it

Now ask me about Rage of Khorne  

[Wotyn]

10 hours ago, Phantajisto said:

 

• In your Hero Phase, he moves D6" towards the enemy, bringing him within 8"
• He uses Aqshy's Bane ability to pile in 8" and attack.
  • He gets 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks via MotD, rerolling 1s to hit (none of the +attack buffs specify combat phase) 
  • He fails to kill anyone, but isn't slain by MotD because this can only happen in the combat phase...

My recollection is that you would not be able to use Aqshy's Bane in this way, even though it allows an 8" pile in, you only qualify to make a pile in move if you are within 3" of an enemy. This has been discussed before for units with 6" pile in moves etc. Plus the restriction on moving closer to the nearest enemy - so it works for creatively moving around an enemy if you end up slightly closer, but it doesn't allow you to substitute it for an 8" charge which is what you are suggesting. Example of use would be after killing an enemy in the previous round you are 2.9" from a Stardrake, with say a Judicator unit being shielded just behind it. You could take an 8 inch move to skirt around the Stardrake and end up in 2.8" (qualifying as closer) of it, and within 1 inch of the Judicator, and then attack the Judicator.

Unless this has been FAQ'd and I missed it?

[Aspirant Snaeper]

9 hours ago, Killax said:

4. Yes, this phase is now considered the combat phase aswell as the hero phase
5. Yes, this phase is now considered the combat phase aswell as the hero phase

Now ask me about Rage of Khorne  

First part: To clarify, it doesn't also count as your opponents combat phase right? It would seem silly if they also get to attack as that wouldn't seem like much of a bonus for your units, would it? 

Second part: Folks can read all about Killax's thoughts on Rage of Khorne HERE. 

Please note that the thread is locked and further discussion on the topic is not recommended. 

[Killax]

4 hours ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

First part: To clarify, it doesn't also count as your opponents combat phase right? It would seem silly if they also get to attack as that wouldn't seem like much of a bonus for your units, would it? 

No, unless the opponent has the option to turn his or her hero phase into a combat phase also. In both cases, due to how it's often triggered, there will not be a second start of any phase (hero or combat). The latter is kind of the most important thing to remember.

Granted, in theory GW could also change that up, but for the sake of clearity lets not do that. Blending phases as is can be confusing enough allready. Despite the easy way GW writes up their rules (most of the time) easy rules do not mean easy rule resolvements. As can be seen in the above examples.

[Killax]

6 hours ago, Wotyn said:

My recollection is that you would not be able to use Aqshy's Bane in this way, even though it allows an 8" pile in, you only qualify to make a pile in move if you are within 3" of an enemy. This has been discussed before for units with 6" pile in moves etc. Plus the restriction on moving closer to the nearest enemy - so it works for creatively moving around an enemy if you end up slightly closer, but it doesn't allow you to substitute it for an 8" charge which is what you are suggesting. Example of use would be after killing an enemy in the previous round you are 2.9" from a Stardrake, with say a Judicator unit being shielded just behind it. You could take an 8 inch move to skirt around the Stardrake and end up in 2.8" (qualifying as closer) of it, and within 1 inch of the Judicator, and then attack the Judicator.

This is true, granted this is also where theory misses actual gameplay.

It's unlikely to have an actual Mighty Lord of Khorne dish out 66 attacks in game, but in theory it is possible (if your opponent allows it due to casualty removal and the board is numberous enough) and because of the many attacks you do have, piling in 8" does mean you can get into another position which can make a difference in a very high model numbered part on the board.

But as above, the madness isn't a possible (very theoretical) set up but 22+ attacks comming forth out of a 140 point model. And they arn't just 22 'poor attacks' once you factor in Ashqy's Bane plus possible other Command Traits, Artefacts and other in game Abilities.

[RuneBrush]

16 hours ago, Killax said:

Still in the Hero Phase, you trigger Tithe 5 Apoplectic Frenzy so he can pile in again and attack again.

• He gets another 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
• He again fails to kill anyone, but still isn't slain by MotD because it's still the hero phase.

 

I don't believe so.  Apocalyptic Frenzy states "as if it were the Combat Phase".  Although you don't have a "start" of the combat phase, MotD would still turn you into a jibbering spawn - basically the unit in question treats it as if it's the combat phase if MotD is on that unit the ability would apply.  Slaughterborn doesn't state the phase so wound't apply in that case.  And yes, this is getting almost into technical/legal dissection of words 

15 hours ago, Killax said:

4. Yes, this phase is now considered the combat phase aswell as the hero phase
5. Yes, this phase is now considered the combat phase aswell as the hero phase

Sorry to disagree on this, as per @Nico's reply above, this was FAQ'd that it doesn't apply.  The abilities also don't state "as if it were the Combat phase" so actually it couldn't be considered the combat phase in any case.  This also means that if your opponent has an ability such as "Gromril Shields", they don't get that either

7 hours ago, Wotyn said:

My recollection is that you would not be able to use Aqshy's Bane in this way, even though it allows an 8" pile in, you only qualify to make a pile in move if you are within 3" of an enemy. This has been discussed before for units with 6" pile in moves etc.

There's a big discussion of this already.  It needs an FAQ.  My interpretation (and a number of others) is that the 3" parameter is only when selecting a unit to attack in the combat phase.  The 6" pile in FAQ is clarifying a what units you can select in the combat phase, nothing more or less (which means that you couldn't Apocalyptic Frenzy Scylia if they were more than 3" away).

[Killax]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

I don't believe so.  Apocalyptic Frenzy states "as if it were the Combat Phase".  Although you don't have a "start" of the combat phase, MotD would still turn you into a jibbering spawn - basically the unit in question treats it as if it's the combat phase if MotD is on that unit the ability would apply.  Slaughterborn doesn't state the phase so wound't apply in that case.  And yes, this is getting almost into technical/legal dissection of words 

Sorry to disagree on this, as per @Nico's reply above, this was FAQ'd that it doesn't apply.  The abilities also don't state "as if it were the Combat phase" so actually it couldn't be considered the combat phase in any case.  This also means that if your opponent has an ability such as "Gromril Shields", they don't get that either

The first question isn't if it wouldn't be turned into a Spawn.  That certainly can happen. The moment you treat the phase as a combat phase all rules apply. 

Secondly yes, this is true if it doesn't state it, however Blades of Khorne, and these questions came forth from the question "When we attack as if it where the combat phase?" and the awnser to that remains, you attack as if it where the combat phase.  There are several Abilities that allow Khorne armies to attack as if it were the combat phase:
- Apopleptic Frenzy
- Murderous Lieutenants
- Bane of Cowards

Cheers,

 

[Nico]

Quote

The moment you treat the phase as a combat phase all rules apply. 

This is what logic would imply. A deemed phase would be like a real phase in every way.

However, the FAQ very clearly states the opposite - no special rules that are phase dependent work in a deemed phase taking place during the hero phase. 

[RuneBrush]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

The first question isn't if it wouldn't be turned into a Spawn.  That certainly can happen. The moment you treat the phase as a combat phase all rules apply. 

Secondly yes, this is true if it doesn't state it, however Blades of Khorne, and these questions came forth from the question "When we attack as if it where the combat phase?" and the awnser to that remains, you attack as if it where the combat phase.  There are several Abilities that allow Khorne armies to attack as if it were the combat phase:
- Apopleptic Frenzy
- Murderous Lieutenants
- Bane of Cowards

I was referring to your points 4 and 5 with were referring to Slaughterborn trait and Mark of the Destroyer, neither of which have the as if... rule.

[Killax]

 

@RuneBrush @Nico Missed the part of the FAQ that said it applied to all phases. Thanks!

This invalidates quite some of the stuff above. Again thanks for the information. 

[RuneBrush]

14 hours ago, Killax said:

 

@RuneBrush @Nico Missed the part of the FAQ that said it applied to all phases. Thanks!

This invalidates quite some of the stuff above. Again thanks for the information. 

Think that's one of the brilliant things like this forum and various Whatsapp groups - allows us to share snippets of information we've picked up

[Killax]

43 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Think that's one of the brilliant things like this forum and various Whatsapp groups - allows us to share snippets of information we've picked up

Totally true! It also is one of the lest 'straight forward' approaches the game offers, which is both interesting and confusing! Luckily though there are many House-rules who at least limit some of the crazy synergies.

All in all though what I really hope is that GW is willing to make a 5th page to the rules, largely for matched play but basically one that puts down some additional House-rules that are common and generally accepted as a game improvement.

[Render]

I know this thread is old, but I wanted to add to it.

 

Gorecleaver: "Any wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon inflict a number of mortal wounds equal to the weapon's Damage characteristic." - Can this be modified? Specifically, if the bearer has +1 to wound, would this trigger A) On a 5+? B) On a natural 6 roll? C) On a natural 5 roll?

 

Crimson Crown: Same question but with the hit roll. 6+? Natural 6?

 

The reason I ask is that I've seen people play it both ways. It would be nice to have an official ruling (if there hasn't already been one that I've missed).

[Arkiham]

Actually. This has reminded me. They asked for questions a while ago,

 

We should be expecting a faq soon.

 

And yeah if it says on a 6 it's a natural 6. As any dice rolls if a 6 would be a 7 if you added buffs, 

 

Result+ are modifiable 

[Kaleb Daark]

Official FAQ for this book have been way overdue, especially as they pump out 40k faqs within a couple of weeks of release.  I hope they come soon as that will finally silence the same old merry go round of questions,  and me and arkiham finally know if our bloodsecrator model goes to a new home.

[Arkiham]

11 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Official FAQ for this book have been way overdue, especially as they pump out 40k faqs within a couple of weeks of release.  I hope they come soon as that will finally silence the same old merry go round of questions,  and me and arkiham finally know if our bloodsecrator model goes to a new home.

Bloodstoker*

[UllNeverKnowWho]

On 4/26/2017 at 0:59 PM, Phantajisto said:

Thanks for the replies. So charges and attacks in the hero phase can't be buffed with phase-specific abilities... Looks like it could get complicated to explain to opponents...

eg. Not a particularly unlikely scenario if running Goretide battalion:

• You have a Mighty Lord with Mark of the Destroyer / Disciple of Khorne (plus Rage of Khorne from a nearby Bloodsecrator)
• In your Hero Phase, he moves D6" towards the enemy, bringing him within 8"
• He uses Aqshy's Bane ability to pile in 8" and attack.
  • He gets 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks via MotD, rerolling 1s to hit (none of the +attack buffs specify combat phase) 
  • He fails to kill anyone, but isn't slain by MotD because this can only happen in the combat phase...
• Still in the Hero Phase, you trigger Tithe 5 Apoplectic Frenzy so he can pile in again and attack again.
  • He gets another 10 axe attacks and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
  • He again fails to kill anyone, but still isn't slain by MotD because it's still the hero phase.
• (Your Deathbringer and Skullreapers can also move D6" to get within 12" of him and can charge and make 1 attack each against the same enemy unit, using the Slaughterborn battalion ability).
• In your combat phase, the MLK goes first and attacks again.
  • Another 10 axe attacks, and 12 dog attacks, rerolling 1s to hit.
  • He again fails to kill anyone, and this time because it's the combat phase, he is finally slain by the MotD artefact and turned into a spawn.

Wait a minute, the only guy that has Aqshy's Bane is Khorgos Khul and he is a named character and as such cannot receive artifacts nor command traits as per General's Handbook (unless there has been a faq or BoK has special rules that bypass the named character clause of the GHB) so that may invalidate all of this.

[Phantajisto]

5 hours ago, UllNeverKnowWho said:

Wait a minute, the only guy that has Aqshy's Bane is Khorgos Khul and he is a named character and as such cannot receive artifacts nor command traits as per General's Handbook (unless there has been a faq or BoK has special rules that bypass the named character clause of the GHB) so that may invalidate all of this.

The Mighty Lord of Khorne can get the ability from the Goretide Battalion. Doesn't really matter now the battalions are too expensive to run and the FAQ has just clarified that you do multipliers before additions, so you get far fewer attacks anyway.