Archaon and some other rules questions

[Rift]

Archaons Crown of Domination: This lets you adjust a battle shock roll up or down by two, does this mean I can take the dice roll to over a 6 if a 6 was rolled, or under a 1 if a 1 was rolled? If not, does it mean that a result on the roll of a 2 will be 1?

UMBRAL SPELLPORTAL: if I cast the great unclean ones Plague wind spell can I measure the range of the line form the portal or must it be from the cast? Likewise, if I cast Sumptuous Pestilence within range of a portal, can I measure the range of the 7” bubble from the other end of the portal?

Chronomatic Cogs: if I speed up time, does it add 2” to the movement of other endless spell as well?
 

 

thanks

[Vextol]

On 7/17/2018 at 7:39 AM, Rift said:

Archaons Crown of Domination: This lets you adjust a battle shock roll up or down by two, does this mean I can take the dice roll to over a 6 if a 6 was rolled, or under a 1 if a 1 was rolled? If not, does it mean that a result on the roll of a 2 will be 1?

UMBRAL SPELLPORTAL: if I cast the great unclean ones Plague wind spell can I measure the range of the line form the portal or must it be from the cast? Likewise, if I cast Sumptuous Pestilence within range of a portal, can I measure the range of the 7” bubble from the other end of the portal?

Chronomatic Cogs: if I speed up time, does it add 2” to the movement of other endless spell as well?
 

 

thanks

1. Archaon's crown has been a point of major interest of mine for some time.  The core rules (somewhere) state a die can never go below a 1 so I would play it that a 2 becomes a 1.  Others may say "You cannot do it".  I'm hoping they faq it to say "Adjust the result up to 2" to remove the confusion.  I would also say that a 6 becomes an 8.  While it is impossible, d3s can be adjusted to "4s" so I'd say it should hold.  It's one of only a few abilities in the game that read this way. 

2. Portal says measure from it instead of the caster.  Even though GUO says "straight line from the caster" all spells have at least the indirect subtext of "from the caster" so I would say the portal essentially becomes "the caster" for all things distance (not unbinding). As such I'd say it measures out the other side. 

3. Cogs add 2 to the movement characteristic.  Endless spells do not have a movement characteristic so they would not be affected. 

[Arkiham]

you modify the dice result not the dice. 

thats why - is now classed as a 7. ( core rules ) 

so its entirely possible to get a 7 off a d6 with a +1 modifier. 

by that logic its entirely possible to have a -1 bravery 

[Luke1705]

There is no max or min for modifiers. 6 always succeeds in hits and wounds regardless of modifiers and 1 always fails on hits, wounds, and saves, regardless of modifiers, but nowhere does it say that there is a limit to modification

[Kurrilino]

if you keep it simple you follow the rules of the owner of the unit can declare in what order stuff is calculated.

If you add the casualties first let's say 5 and you roll a 3 you get 8. Take 2 off the roll you end up with 6. 

Same works with armor save. Can't roll a -1.

But you can solve opponents rend first and then substract your -1 from cover or whatever.

It's the easy way to circumvent pointless discussions.

No mathematical stunts required.

 

[Fluttershy]

56 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

There is no max or min for modifiers. 6 always succeeds in hits and wounds regardless of modifiers and 1 always fails on hits, wounds, and saves, regardless of modifiers, but nowhere does it say that there is a limit to modification

corel rules page 14

Modifiers

Sometimes modifiers apply to characteristics or abilities. For example, a rule might add 1 to a hit roll or the Move characteristic of a model. Modifiers are cumulative. Modifiers can never reduce a dice roll to less than 1.

[Luke1705]

My apologies. Missed that one. It doesn’t matter for the upper level, but it doesn’t appear that you can have a leadership less than 1. So rolls of 1, 2, and 3 are functionally the same as a 1 when you take battleshock, but when your opponent rolls his, you could jack his 6 up to 8

[Vextol]

4 hours ago, Arkiham said:

you modify the dice result not the dice. 

While that is true there is an important distinction that comes up with Archaon.  As per FAQ:

Q: Some abilities allow you to either pick, change or replace a dice roll with the roll of your choice. Does this happen before or after any re-rolls or modifiers? A: Unless noted otherwise in the ability, it happens before any re-rolls or modifiers are applied.

Given that reading, not everything that changes a die is a modifier.  Crazy important when determining Archaons ability to resurrect demon battleline on battleshock tests.  Archaon crown of domination almost intentionally does not say modify in its description.  It says "Adjust".  To my knowledge it's the only place this terminology is used.

I hope they say FOR SURE in the faq that he can res on 1,2 and 3 because as of now it's a little ambiguous. (I say yes because I love Archaon and I think he's kind of terrible) ?

[EMMachine]

1 hour ago, Vextol said:

Given that reading, not everything that changes a die is a modifier.  Crazy important when determining Archaons ability to resurrect demon battleline on battleshock tests.  Archaon crown of domination almost intentionally does not say modify in its description.  It says "Adjust".  To my knowledge it's the only place this terminology is used.

I think the mainproblem here is, that Archaons Warscroll is from December 2015 and they didn't really care about wording, did they?

Let's hope that GW will make a updated Warscroll for him.

[Fluttershy]

5 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

owner of the unit can declare in what order stuff is calculated.

?

 

random values are applied first, core rules page 14: "If a modifier applies to a random value, work out the random value first and then apply the modifier(s) to it."

and

modifiers are applied after multiplying or dividing a value, errata page 5: "Q: If two abilities affect a value, and one adds a modifier to the value and the other either multiplies or divides the value, do you apply the modifiers before or after multiplying or dividing the value? A: Apply the modifiers after multiplying or dividing the value."

[Vextol]

6 hours ago, EMMachine said:

I think the mainproblem here is, that Archaons Warscroll is from December 2015 and they didn't really care about wording, did they?

Let's hope that GW will make a updated Warscroll for him.

Absolutely. He is definitely at the end of his life for warscroll terminology and you wouldn't hear a shred of argument from me if they simply updated his language to match the current vernacular!  

[Kurrilino]

10 hours ago, Fluttershy said:

?

 

random values are applied first, core rules page 14: "If a modifier applies to a random value, work out the random value first and then apply the modifier(s) to it."

and

modifiers are applied after multiplying or dividing a value, errata page 5: "Q: If two abilities affect a value, and one adds a modifier to the value and the other either multiplies or divides the value, do you apply the modifiers before or after multiplying or dividing the value? A: Apply the modifiers after multiplying or dividing the value."

What i tried to say is that mostly the same stuff applies to save or bravery rules. One person has some - the other one some + values.

Here you can work out the order as you wish. If someone has a-2 rend against my troops it doesn't matter i end up with a -1 armor save for a second

before it turns back to a +1 save because of the -2 rend

[Rift]

Thank you for the help