Malakree
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Posts posted by Malakree
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2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:
Does the Gorefist list work anymore? You know like around 12 Gore-Gruntas, Gordrakk and a Megaboss on Maw-krusha with the Gorefist battalion and any warchanters you might be able to fit?
QuoteAllegiance: Ironjawz
Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Battalions
Gorefist (130)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103This is basically the list you just said right?
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3 hours ago, Hannibal said:
Thanks for the answer. Yesterday I niticed that there is something about the Rogue Idol, at least it´s included in many lists. And because I like that model more than a Mawcrusha I´m right now thinking about an army with some Rogue Idol and plenty of Ardboyz. Might this work as well?
Thanks in advance.
Big waaagh! Mixed rogue idol lists are really solid. It's a great warscroll at a solid points cost which can be buffed by IJ and BS buffs. Honestly it's just solid.
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Just now, Skeekrit said:
The problem with my list is that if you don't like Ardboyz having painted 75 of them... it can be a bit annoying 😄
If you add 6 gg's it reduces it down to 60 Ardboys
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17 minutes ago, Log_Cabin_Gaming said:
Moving forward, i am struggling to put together a 2000pt list as its literally 2 SC boxes, a megaboss on Mawcrusha, some brutes and a weirdnob shaman or 2 - i am traditionally a knorne player so usually have around 10 very different builds floating around in my head at any one time. Seems like the IJ are a bit limited on their troop choices - so i guess that makes it easy in one sense and probably everyone ends up on a similar build towards the end.......is mixing them with Bonesplitters a good idea?
Yes you can combine with bonesplitterz in big waaagh. To be honest BW is probably the best way to run pure IJ.
Ironjawz lists are built in the subtleties rather than the overarching unit choices. You're battalions, whether you take specific heroes and what weighting you give to each of the units will change how the list plays.
GG's make your list faster but harder to keep in range of buffs.
Ardboys make the list tankier at the cost of speed.
Brutes do add more damage but without the speed or sustainability.
Cabbage adds a massive CA user that can hit hard but costs you on wounds/bodies elsewhere.So this is ~what @Skeekrit ran at slaughter.
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175vs what I ran
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Wardokk (80)
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Ironfist (160)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150vs another list I ran previously
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139Those are 3 lists made up of the same broad components but each of them plays very differently. One is built around the grind, one is magic MW output and the last is blitz/hammer and anvil.
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1 minute ago, Aelfric said:
The bit that intrigues me is the second paragraph. Does this mean if "Mad as Hell" is triggered on a unit of GoreGruntas that is just outside 9" from an enemy unit, they can move to within 3" of them without having to charge?
It's ****** awkward to explain but the short version is no, the reason is you can't actually go far enough not that you're not allowed. I'll go into a more detailed explanation below.
Terminology
Within α" means under OR EXACTLY so a unit which can be placed "Within 6" of a board edge" can be placed EXACTLY 6" from a board edge.- This also means that if an objective is 12" away from a board edge then there is a single point on the board that is Exactly 6" of the board edge AND exactly 6" from the objective. So a model can be placed so that the very edge of it's base is on that point and it is within 6" of both the board edge and objective.
Conversely the term more than α" is equivalent to not within α" DOES NOT include EXACTLY α"
Hence
- In order to use Mad as Hell you must be more than 9" from an enemy unit.
- Hence you are (9+β)" where β > 0
- You trigger Mad as Hell and move 6"
- (9+β)" - 6" = (9-6)"+β" = 3"+β"
- Since β > 0 ==> (3+β)" > 3"
- Thus you are more than 3" from an enemy unit
- Hence you are not within 3" of an enemy unit.
- You are not in combat.
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1 hour ago, VonSmall said:
If you used the extra move to run with MIghty Destroyers you wouldn't be able to charge later on in the turn though right?
As the base rules state: "Models in a unit that runs can't shoot or charge later in the same turn."
No you couldn't charge, you could however still run in your movement phase.
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49 minutes ago, Kasper said:
Yep that's totally a fair point. I personally don't fight vs armies with stuff that can specifcally remove a single model very often - In fact I can't remember the last time I did. OBR usually wont shoot against my 10 man Ardboyz. But if you experience it, you can totally go with 2 banners.
There are a few other reasons I do it but they are much more complicated to explain.
Realistically though I would go banner, banner, icon, icon, banner, icon. For increasing unit sizes. It means at 10 I go double banner and at 15 I go double banner single icon.
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2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:
I just wish I knew how to make meaningful moves with my maw-krusha. It feels like I either shoot it forward turn 1 and blow up like a screen and then it gets counter charged and dies, or I put it where I think it's safe but surprise the enemy is super speed and can run and charge or something and behold it's dead before it even got to do the combat phase.
Screen it. Protect it until you can unleash it on a meaningful target.
At the moment Ardboys will mince through any other screens without requiring a hammer to do it. So you screen out deepstrikes etc. while your Ardboys slowly meatgrinder their way through the opponents screens. At some point they will have to commit something meaningful to deal with the Ardboys which you then want to pounce on with the MK, preferably in such a way that it's protected from retaliation.
In other words, practice practice practice.
I've been playing my IJ for 3 years now with maybe 200 tournament games. I cannot tell you how many times my MK died for absolutely nothing, there was a rather embarrassing game on THW stream for chrimbobo game 1, chucked one into 6 kurnoths and lost it to kill 2 which were instantly regrowthed back....So yeah, practice.
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On the banner glyph point. Personally I would recommend just building double banner for your unit. The glyph is really situational and very meh, you won't notice it not being there.
On the otherhand a unit without a banner is significantly worse, to the point if I have to choose between the boss and banner as the last model ~70% of the time I choose the banner. Since you may choose to split your units into 5s and there are several different abilities which allow people to target/remove specific models that Redundency is crucial.
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@VonSmall That's actually a really nice variation on the list I've been building/working around.
Dropping the wurrgog for to have 15+15+15 rather than 15+15+5 is something I hadn't thought of. I'm not sure how you deal with fyreslayers or petrifex would be my issues. I'm definately leaning into massive mw output to get round the problem...
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On 2/28/2020 at 9:20 AM, VonSmall said:
Here's a shot of a recent event I went to where I castled up and kept giving the IDK player the turn. Literally nothing died for 3 turns and them I hit him with the krusha and boosted ardboys for the win.
I recognise those realmgates haha
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4 hours ago, hurben said:
If it’s for taking objectives or block enemy units why don’t you use a bataillon to have less drops and take the table first round 1?
Because I need to do it for most of the game against a whole bunch of different armies? KO/Changehost get teleports everyturn that I'm screening out.
Also IJ based big waaagh! isn't going below 4/5 drops which means you're not getting to choose a large portion of the time anyway.
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@tripchimeras You're actually slightly misunderstanding why I have them. In every list I build I always consider how I'm going to screen any teleporting etc. into my backline and how I'm going to protect isolated objectives. The Arrowboys aren't there for their shots or damage, that's just a nice bonus. They are there because it's a massive amount of wounds, bodies and more importantly coverage.
Take a scenario like escalation. A single Arrowboys unit of 20 is covering my entire board edge and a large amount of my territory just by existing. I'm paying 30 points more than a unit of 5 Ardboys to get double the number of bodies AND they are also a reasonably strong ranged threat which is important in the current meta.
I don't actually want a unit of 30 buffed up arrowboys. In the first list it's the Savage Orruks I would be buffing to act as a massive and very dangerous anvil in the middle of the board, the hammer is two highly mobile units of 6 GG's which are going to be supported by a warchanter each. For the second list I have an Ironjawz core which is terrifying to deal with, they can easily push forward and threaten anything I want. The arrowboys are there to sit behind the hammer and take potshots while stopping any/all shenanigans.
If you look at basically every list I build they all run at least 2 min sized units to provide screening/space control for deepstriking and to provide presence on outlying objectives. This is a trend which goes back to my 2017 lists which ran a unit of 20 Gitmob with bows for exactly that purpose. My gitz lists still run 2 units of 3 fellwaters for outlying objective holding AND at least 1 unit of 20 shootas for backline screening. My preference is always for 3 backline screening but 20 arrowboys is way better than 10 and doesn't negatively impact their potential.
EDIT: I got some example pictures previously of me doing it in game. They show how I'm using cheap min str units quite well I think.
120 points to stop the eels coming on in my deployment zone.
The black dice in the middle represent the only area he can get his tunneling hero and 30 Irondrakes in the picture outside of his deployment zone. Even then Mollog and the giant are zoing his deployment zone hard as well. This particular one won me the game by putting them so far out of position that they never became relevant.
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1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:
What mixed list would you like to run if you had the models?
Maybe something like this
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wardokk (80)
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Battleline
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Chompas
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 230
As a starting point. Using the savage orruks for bodies etc. rather than Ardboys and the GG's for the hammer. Arrowboys for even more reach. I'd play around form there but I don't have the experience with savage orruk units to properly judge.
Maybe this instead.
EDIT:
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wardokk (80)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 194The arrowboys providing a massive amount of bodies/wounds along with their ranged potential so they can sit on objectives and still contribute.
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1 minute ago, Skeekrit said:
Go Bonesplitterz Big Waaagh instead of Ironjawz then? Lots to paint, but probably could work?
Don't have the models but yeah I'd run a proper mixed if I could.
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13 minutes ago, hurben said:
The Wardokk ?
Wouldn't drop him at all. The +1 to cast/heal/save for the Wurrgog is so good and he's also carrying the mortal wound mask.
The least negotioable part of the list is the Wurrgog+Wardokk combo 😆
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22 minutes ago, Kasper said:
Have you toyed around with Umbral Spellportal? It is twice the cost, but it could make turn 1 snipe very real if the Wurrgog throws down the Umbral Spellportal near the Weirdnob. 34" range with the possibility of being outside of unbinding range. If need be you could also MD the Weirdnob into the right position.
I really want to practice a list with this, but I'm a bit afraid of pumping too many points into a Wurrgog, Weirdnob, Balewind and Spellportals.
So I don't actually have a spell portal painted 😅 it's kinda hard to fit into my list the way I'm running it. The balewind I can fit in with only a little bit of tweaking.
QuoteAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Wardokk (80)
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145 -
1 hour ago, hurben said:
The Prophet is definitely the man in every big waaagh list because he can cast spell with +3/4/5 (with big waaagh and different bonuses). Last game against 3x30 phoenix guards (FNP 4+) he killed them in every phase of magic between 8 and 12 in a pack...and it would be better against Mortek guards (FNP 6+) ... WTF 😅
I keep telling people he's the best warscroll in the book and half of then don't even realise he's in there.
I used him at slaughter with +1 trait and +1/2 artefact. Throw in arcane and the wardokk dance I got him up to +7 to cast in one game 🤯
7 wounds, solid in combat, 4+ CP, unbelievably good warscroll spell and has access to Gorkamorkas warcry. Oh and he's a 2 cast wizard. So so good.
So at slaughter this weekend Gabe Huddleston went 4 wins and a draw with Big waaagh. Was an MK, 10 Brutes ironfist, bunch of ardboys. Not 100% on the full list but it had no GGs I believe.
There was also @Skeekrit on 3/2 with 75 ardboys in an ardfist 😮 one of his losses was to my jammy rolls in our game 1 grude. I also went 3-2 with a combo ardfist+gg/brutes ironfist and a bunch of magic.
My big three big takeaways were
1) I still hate brutes, big waaagh has way more cps to IP them at least which alleviates the bravery issue. I can see why a unit of 10 could work. To be honest though I've been the ardboy boss for 2 and a half years now so it's definately a ton of personal bias.
2) The combo of a Wurrgog general with morks boney bits, master of the weird and a wardokk with the waaagh mask is just as good as I hoped it would be. Fisted a ton of people and Gorkamorkas warcry On +3 base is sweet. I'd probably take a different spell on the wardokk though, he never cast the warcry just because it wasn't worth the risk.
3) Wrath of Gork is a good spell which is hampered by it's range and radius. I'd either take it with a balewind or just go hand of gork. There were a couple of times wrath was out of range and I would have killed for a HoG. The 4" budge from a balewind and extra 6" range giving it a threat of 26" would make a massive difference.
I need to check but I don't think balewind increases the radius, only the range. That would still be a much needed boost though.
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2 hours ago, svnvaldez said:
Would you write out roughly the list you are thinking of with this comment?
Some variation on this with either an Ironfist, Megaboss with brutish cunning or both.
Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Total: 1420 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
Basically a ton of wounds, one unit of 6ggs for the hammer an Ardfist or Ironfist. Maybe a weirdnob with HoG.
Just so hard to kill and will grind out anything on the 2+/2+/-1/2.
This was my preferred slaughter list but I didn't finish the extra 15 ardboys.
Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wardokk (80)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Ardfist (120)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150-
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10 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:
I was just building Wyveryn lists at lunch yesterday. Such an interesting piece. I wish he had a few more wounds, but he actually hits pretty hard, is mobile and has a pretty small base.
Imagine him next to some Big Stabbas or Gruntas. +1 attack on Gruntas gets them to 10 attacks each... and Big Stabbas too. Insanity. He just seems so squishy at 11 wounds but I think for sure Warboss, Wyvern or Boar, have untapped potential. Such a strong buff piece.
With a shield he's refilling saves isn't he? So 4+ RR which is solid. Chance to fail is 1/2*1/2=1/4 or 25% while a 3+ save is 1/3 to fail or 33%.
Means statistically a wyvern with boss shield has a better save than an MK at 0 rend (ethereal amulet anyone?)
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13 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:
Yep Savva is a superstar, but I think Ian Spink would strongly disagree that he's the only one! Rode those pigs all the way to your Masters 😃
I can't disagree that I'm biased. I suspect I have a very warped view of who's good and who isn't...I mean I consider my clubmate Alex Bruce to be slightly above average which apparently is not the case? (I consider myself average...)
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1 hour ago, Rentar said:
Only 2-3 Megabosses on foot, 2-3 Brutes, I'm afraid. So no triple Megaboss and no 5 Brute squads.
ugh I confused it with the other one for 1-5 brutes.
I guess that just leaves you with 2 cabbages, 2 footbosses, 10+5+5 brutes
Honestly it's just bad for it's cost.
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@PlasticCraic I think in the UK we are pretty much settled on Ardboy based Big Waaagh! without an MK. being the best IJ based list in the book, There is definitely legs on other lists but as a second tier list in the book.
Not sure on the Bonesplitterz because we only really have Ben Savva who plays it properly and he's such a legend that it's meaningless to judge off him 😁
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2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:
The more I look at Bossfist the more it seems to me that the intention should be to lean into and embrace the use of the bosses. That should be self-evident by the name, but it strikes me that a lot of our discussion about “what it should have been” are somewhat off base because we are looking at the footbosses as a tax rather than a center design of the battalion.
Now, it could very well be the case that the battalion could be designed in a different way to make footbosses a more attractive option, but removing them does not seem like the right way to view the battalion. In addition, it could well be the case that the battalion as it stands is just not great - which would be a shame but is probably the case for over half the battalions in the game. I still contend that the base cost of the battalion is overly high - but I think that leaning into the footbosses as relatively cheap units with high offensive potential might be somewhat decent. If you can get artifacts on those heroes you could turn them into pretty decent blenders.
On the footbosses it's best viewed as a free half-stack (no wound) on strength from victory. They still have all the traditional problems faced by Footbosses, slow as sin, massive bases, unreliable and no support abilities.
Say we lean into maximising the gain from it. The units we are talking about are all multi-damage units anyway. Brutes have the boss/special weapon while MK/footboss have no single damage unit, so lets just drop the WC altogether and go full ham.
QuoteAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
Orruk Megaboss (150)
Orruk Megaboss (150)
Orruk Megaboss (150)
Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Battalions
Boss Fist (220)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 118This is a 1 drop list which maximises the +1 attack, the MSU Brutes is a classic for the +1 attack and the smaller units means that you are getting an extra attack on both the boss and the choppa. More over the fact you're running 10 units in a 1drop means that you need to roll a 2+ for the 2 extra attacks giving you 11 attacks base from both the Krusha weapons, 9 attacks from each of the footbosses while the brutes are doing 13 attacks on 4+/3+/-1/2 and 21 attacks at 3+/3+/-1/1.
That's a ton of attacks and half of your army is gaining wounds/attacks whenever it kills something in a combat phase which combined with the Ironsunz CA is actually something which should happen a fair bit, not to mention that you have a massive amount of CA coverage and the -1 to hit to soak that first round.
It's more than a bit mad but could be a laugh. Plus it's a 1 drop which are basically unheard of atm.
AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
Big Waaagh! is better than pure Ironjawz. The 6++ save alone is worth so much in the modern mortal heavy era, the fact you can also get +1 to hit/wound makes Ironjawz just disgraceful, more than one opponent has questioned the fact all my stuff is on 2+/2+. I've been playing some TTS with a new list recently and it's been doing really well, I'm currently 4-0 with an extra undecided game (was probably slightly in his favour) and I've used big waaagh! at tournaments earlier in the year.
This is my current list.
Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Brutish Cunning
- Metal Rippers -3 Rend
- Weird Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- +1 cast
Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 173
If I was going to replace the 30 Arrowboys it would be with another 20 Ardboys, the bodies/wounds are just so crucial at the moment, I'd also probably swap the weirdnob artefact for Ignix scales on the Ardfist warchanter since Kroak is so prolific at the moment.
The key thing is you want AT LEAST 1 source of Mighty Destroyers in your army, either Brutish Cunning or an Ironfist. If you go the Ironfist route it should be a unit of 6 GG's.