Malakree

Ahh from the way you said it I did wonder if there was clarification from somewhere else. Man did shooting armies get a massive boost from this though... EDIT: Actually holy God's did smashing and bashing just become insanely good...

Where is this coming from (ie. is there something more than the article) because what's linked in the article just says "reinforced units" and even if it has three times minimum models it's still only one unit.

I love how unclear the new article is. So not tournament legal or tournament legal..? So one dropping battalions normally is now gone? Does reinforcing a battleline twice count as 1 of your 0-4 or 2. If I have a unit which is not battleline unless I take a specific number, say ardboys. Can I reinforce it once or twice since it's not actually battleline until it's got 10 models.

I'm case anyone was wondering about how you get 90%+ in range under the new coherency rules. This is your large base cav unit setup. It works because the first casualty takes you down to 5 models thus stopping the coherency issue. Then this is your infantry setup for the ardboy/BL size base. The ends are in 1" of 2 other models and penultimate is 3 models. Lastly the rest of the line is within 1" of 4 models and still within 1" for melee. The major problem is how much of a pita it is to setup, took me ~2mins for the small line I did here.

Stupid thing is that it does stop small cab units being used to screen like before. Konga line 2x5 fire wolves and they ignore the new version. It's bigger units, with bigger bases, which get shafted...

I'm wondering if it's a new Warclans battletome not a Kruleboyz battletome, I can dream right...

I've got about 50 and I think atm that's about what I'll stick with, really lacking on the brutes though, only at 15, think that needs to go up to ~30 if I'm honest. Need to see what shooty orruks are in da box though...

As the paw print only has 5 models it would still be under the 1 model coherency. My point was that it's basically impossible to fit the 6th in and get 5 in combat. What that means is a unit of 5 gets all 5 ggs in while a unit of 6 only gets 4. The 6th goregrunta makes your units damage potential WORSE! It's to do with the fact the models are on round bases so by using models in base to base you can create a wave like line on the front row where the 2nd "rank can actually get within 1" to attack. It's really awkward though and would be horrific to do with units of 20-30 taking ages to make sure it's right. The 80-90% variance is based on how your opponent is lined up and what models are already locked.

With my Ardboys I think I could get about 80-90% in combat with proper placement, it's going to slow the game right down though just due to how precise it will need to be. Brutes I can abuse the special weapons 2" range to get a unit of 10 in range. For goregruntas the best I could get to was this before I ran out of space with frontage and adjacency. So in a sad twist, adding the 6th goregrunta actually causes you to have 1 less in melee..? It's mad.

That's actually one thing which is good. All my lists include 2 min strength cheap units whose job is to sit in corners and stop deepstrikes. The board ends up looming a bit daft with these 2 random units in the middle of no where doing nothing.

Jesus my poor 6 man goregrunta squads. God I can already see the weird ass formation they have to move in. There should be exceptions for units where the models have large numbers of wounds, varanguard, mournfang, goregruntas etc. Probably around 5+ wounds (So gluttons don't get it).

Yeah was just trying to find it was why I asked. I also couldn't find where they said they were removing faction battalions, just that they were adding a bunch of extra ones for everyone.

Where does it say they are reset? It just says you get cps at the start of each round. It even specifies that you still get your cp for having your general on the field which happens in your hero phase..? His points cost seems ridiculous for what you get?

Always take the boss weapon and special weapon. They are just better.

Oh and in case anyone was wondering this would be the kinda list I'd take if I had the brutes/boarboys. Allegiance: Big Waaagh!LeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- Artefact: The Boss SkewerOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkBattleline10 x Orruk Brutes (260)- Pair of Brute Choppas10 x Orruk Brutes (260)- Pair of Brute Choppas10 x Orruk Brutes (260)- Pair of Brute Choppas10 x Orruk Brutes (260)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Savage Boarboys (130)- Chompas5 x Savage Boarboys (130)- ChompasBattalionsBrute Fist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsChronomantic Cogs (80)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 175

@Tizianolol bit of a late response but since nobody else has I'll throw in my 2cents. Quick note first, the footboss is 140 now so you're overcharging yourself. Honestly I don't think ardboys compete with brutes anymore in standard IJ lists. Definitely not in big waaagh. The primary advantage ardboys always had was the fact they were so much harder to shift than brutes. The +2 bravery, 6++ save and better points per wound all added up to a solid block which was "almost" as good as brutes on the damage. -10 points made brutes better points per wound than ardboys and that's without the +10 points hike on ardboys. In addition the damage difference, which slightly favoured brutes, is now much more pronounced. So you're losing +2 bravery/charge and the 6++ shields but gaining 50% more wounds and much better damage for 30points. However. The most important change for big waaagh is that you can no longer roll multiple after saves on any wounds you take. So if you have the 12 waaagh point 6++ up the shields are now worthless. With all that in mind I'd suggest dropping the extra CP and swapping to 10 brutes instead of 10 ardboys. Then shift metal rippers onto the cabbage (it's fricking amazing on him) and take the +1 bravery banner on your footboss to push the brutes to bravery 7. Allegiance: Big Waaagh! LeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw- Mount Trait: Weird 'UnOrruk Megaboss (140)- Artefact: The Boss SkewerOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Warchanter (110)Wurrgog Prophet (160)Battleline6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas10 x Orruk Brutes (260)- Pair of Brute Choppas10 x Orruk Brutes (260)- Pair of Brute ChoppasBattalionsIronfist (160)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 131

If they do increase it I'd rather it was to 95 not 100. The only reason they are so daft is because of the Big Waaagh/Warchanter buffs as I think we've discussed before. Assuming they bring the points of brutes down AND put the points of Ardboys up we'll just swap over either to them or GG's. I can see a shock and awe Gorefist potentially being a thing if we are really forced. My personal hope is that Warchanters go up by 20. It hits the army in a far better place without disrupting the internal unit balance between Ardboys/GG's which is pretty solid atm. It also allows them to adjust Brutes knowing where Ardboys/GG's sit. Honestly if all they do is increase Ardboys to 100 I can see the most effective move being a hard swap to bonesplitterz based armies instead. This list is a thing atm.

The big question is, if Brutes were 100 points, would you take them over Ardboys? How low does their points need to be that they are actually usable?

Using a Mawkrusha, easily. I also have 4 heroes so I can have 4 models just outside. For reference. A Mawkrusha base is a fraction less than 6" (~5.905). Call it 6" 18" from the base. This gives us a bubble of 3"+18" radius = 21". The total Diameter of the bubble is 42". So we have a donut 42" wide with a 6" hole in order to fit all our units in. The donut is ~6.1" short of of 2/3rds of the board. On a traditional deployment you lose ~15" either end if you deploy the MK dead centre. No such board has an objective less than 12" from the edge of the board, with an capture area of 6". So with correct placement you can drop the MK off centre, to get one unit onto one of the objectives. The second unit has 4 models out of the area on the otherside ~8" outside of that bubble thus ensuring you can run onto the objective turn 1. For almost other deployments you are forced to cramp into that bubble by the deployment rules. The only exception is Duality of death where the strategy is normally to take prio, tag one objective turn 1 and bum rush the other with your entire army. In that case I'd stack up, take first, burn d6 into hand of gork to try and teleport a unit of 5 onto the objective and flood the other objective anyway. @Aelfric @Lanoss

Bodies, Bodies and wounds. The amount of space you can cover with 30 models on 32mm is massive, You have an extra 30 Orruks for the CA which is +3 waaagh points on the first turn. A lot of damage being done at the moment is either high rend or mortals, against that 60 wounds is better than 40 with a 4+. You can sling 30 of them onto an objective for raw numbers you wouldn't otherwise have. Often you can sit them on one objective and shoot onto others without moving off. For 360 points they offer a lot of utility. My current list has generates 4waaagh points from warchanters, 4 from my 40 ardboys (15+15+5+5) + 3 from the 30 Arrowboys = 11+d6 for my general. It means I can Guarantee that I will hit 12 Waaagh Points on my turn 1.

It's a massive of bodies/wounds that can take up huge amounts of space and do poke damage in the shooting phase while sitting objectives. 30 bodies/60 wounds that will plink from 18" away.

I really love the wurrgog, honestly I think he's amazing. 2 WC is mandatory in the list though, you can't drop either. MK general makes it really easy to fit everything in, he's a 6" base and 18" bubble puts you at a 21" radius circle around the centre of his base. You're also gaining the hand of gork which is such an unbelievably important threat, your opponent having to worry about deepstrikes into their backline changes the entire dynamic of the game. Finally the 2 units of 5 give you the backfield objective holding/screening which you're currently lacking, if you haven't played much trust me when I say that those 2 units of 5 are gold dust. On the CP front, what CA's are you using? Turn 1 you pop for waaagh! points, that's covered by the battalion CP. What other CA's are you using, you shouldn't be properly engaging until turn 2 at which point you will be 2+/2+. Don't forget aswell that charging with a unit of 10+ ardboys gives you 2 waaagh! points, proper use of charges from units/support heroes can be really crucial for building up the last few points to hit 20. It's why I suggested the 15/15/5/5 Ironfist build. It's pure Ironjawz and it sounds like you already have everything you need. I would recommend one of these two lists with that in mind. You'll also notice that they are basically the same as what I'm running atm except I have 30 Arrowboys instead, the 15/15/5/5 is just such a stable core to build around.

No the double WC is mandatory for buffing up the 2 threats. A buffed cabbage will go through huge blocks as will a buffed unit of 15 ardboys. I've played with the wurrgog/wardokk and they just don't do enough.

Personally I ended up dropping either the MK or the gg's+Ironfist. I'd end up going in this direction if I was keeping both. It is short on wounds and doesn't have the Ardfist threat but you do have the double MD which is nice. You get the HoG, 2 big units of 15 to muscle around the board but you also get the 2 units of 5 which provide so much utility.

To be honest I started using it more because some of the UK tournaments are starting to ban realm artefacts. I do really like it though, it makes him just so damn killy and moves the melee potential from the fists, which degrade, to the choppa which actually gets better. Generally I try to hold him back to hit something important or go through something especially tanky. For me the big thing BWIJ need is bodies/wounds. In the modern meta I'd say 150 is the min wounds you need to hit.