DanielFM

Idoneth Deepkin Lord of Tides Command Ability: Wholy within 12", only +1 attack (you must spend extra CPs to get extra attacks) and only useable during the third turn. How is that not uber lift? Only downside is that the FEC you can try to dispel.

I agree the Ishlaen must go. Then, the decision to split the Morrsar or Thralls is difficult: the big unit of Morrsar is better with the Lord of Tides, but part of the quirk of the list is dropping 20 Thralls + Reavers + Eidolon -two thrall units don't help with that. Good thing with allies is that I can: A) field an Allopex as a count-as Scourgerunner Chariot and get to use the cool models with pretty unimpressive rules (but cheap points) B) field 5 Heartrenders, which don't fit a lot the theme of my army but have super cool rules.

Hi, with the thread dead I may as well spam with another list which, in retrospective, is quite similar to Akhelian Snail's 😂 However, mine is a bit unorthodox as I will go Briomdar and put the Reavers, chunky Thrall block and Aspect of the Sea in the enemy's face. Tsunami of Terror + Tide of Fear to ruin someone's day. Not-optimal but I want something to spice us up (beside the tried and tested Reverse Fuethan). Only problem I have? It's 2040 points, and I don't know where to make the cut. Basically everything is untouchable but the Ishlaen and Morrsar. Either I remove the 3 Ishlaen and split the Morrsar in two 3 strong units (100 spare points) or remove 3 Morrsar (120 spare points). I know I don't give you much choice 😆 which one seems less weak? I know something similar could be done with Steed of Tides and a different Enclave, but I would lose a spell. Plus, this gives me flexibility in case I decide to ambush other units depending on the opponent. Without further addo, the list: Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin- Enclave: BriomdarLeadersIsharann Soulscryer (100)Akhelian King (240)- General- Trait: Born From Agony - Artefact: Cloud of Midnight Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)- Lore of the Deeps: Tide of FearBattleline20 x Namarti Thralls (280)6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)Units10 x Namarti Reavers (140)BehemothsAkhelian Leviadon (380)Total: 2040 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 106

I asked that question myself 😂 so...

The bravery buff and two good spells are really valuable. But you must build an army around it to take advantage of them IMHO. General opinion is AotStorm is better for offensive eel armies and AotSea is better for defensive Namarti armies (or that's how I understood it).

If you calculate the average damage from both units, the Aspect of the Sea has almost half the output. That's far from "not much worse in combat".

Yeah, I don't love to use them over the ones in the battletomes (some are way better), but one must take them into account for competitive lists. PD. Could you give me the measurements for the two halves of the Gloomtide Shipwreck? I want to build an alternative (water springs for my Desert Nomad Deepkin) and I want them to be as close as possible to avoid complaints.

Thanks for the suggestions, they are very interesting. I have a second artifact, so I could go with a spell-enhancing one for the Tidecaster. We have some decent ones.

Hi, does this list sound better than my last one? Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin- Enclave: FuethanLeadersEidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (400)Isharann Tidecaster (100)- General- Trait: Lord of Storm and Sea Isharann Soulscryer (100)Battleline10 x Namarti Reavers (140)10 x Namarti Thralls (140)10 x Namarti Thralls (140)Units3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)BehemothsAkhelian Leviadon (380)BattalionsAkhelian Corps (100)Endless SpellsBalewind Vortex (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 100 Balewind vortex is for filling points and help Tidecaster with the short range (plus another spell to help her contribute more). Any suggestions for the artifacts and spell? I can't see the use for the ubiquitous Cloud of Midnight on the Avatar of the Storm. A turn doing nothing seems a waste for its profile.

Food for thought: Seraphon's Bastiladon is 280 points for only 8 wounds and poor CaC (good shooting though) but an infamously annoying resilience. Would you like the Leviadon to be more like it? Maybe 3+ unmodifiable/4+ vs mortals would be unbalanced on a 16 wound model.

Unfortunately it's rerolls (1s?) to hit when charged. +1 to hit would have been brutal for the Leviadon.

That (and the other recent posts) is way more constructive. It would be nice if it dropped 40 points? For sure. Could GW tune its aura to work better with the army? Clearly. But neither will happen (if it does) until summer. We can try to make it work the better we can, or leave it at home. What a pitty to do so, isn't it?

Yeah, you and me look at the game in the same way. I want to learn to use the army I want to play, not to play the best meta army. Because there are a lot of fun, interesting suboptimal options and strategies. But only so many cookie-cutter, top lists.

As Staunch Defender was kind-of-cover and carried a "doesn't work when you charge" caveat I always thought it was an exception to how cover worked.

Wtf did it change in AoS 2.0? I'm sorry for my oversight.

😒 I think we play different games. What if you play Reverse Tide and you don't get first turn? Yeah, the Leviadon cover is useless. What if (how dare you) you ambush a Leviadon with a big unit so they take and hold an objective? What if you maneuver the Leviadon so it runs and keeps a charging unit within the bubble? PD: am I missing something and cover stops working if you charge? Or is it that you think it's impossible to charge with a unit and still be within the aura? *Real edit: I wasn't aware cover doesn't work if you charge. Sorry. It doesn't wholly invalidate the previous argument. Reply to the Edit: what are you talking about? Running 5d6 and charging? Yeah, if the moon is where it should be when you need it (first battleround it's in the corner, no effect. Second battleround it can be in a quadrant or in the center of the table). The Leviadon moves 12+1d6 and charge in the second turn. Consider me unimpressed 😜

As above, the Colossal Squig is an afterthought to the actual Battletome, some rules tacked to a model with no real balance with the rest of the real army. Anyway, it does 8.88 unsaved wounds (against 4+ save models) not counting the mortals, and the Leviadon does 7.33 (not counting the mortals either). Not that big of a difference. The CS is -1 to hit in CC and only a 5+ save against anything else, the Leviadon is 3+ always and can be made inmune to shooting (Forgotten Nightmares). The Squig has the summon (5 squigs, that's...60 points?) if it dies, and the Leviadon has the cover aura (which is far from useless, it can be played around if you are willing to adjust a little). Is the Leviadon worth 80 points more than the Colossal Squig. Not really. Should it be 300? I don't think so.

The comparison is so heavy-handed that it gives almost no information. You say they have more damage output, but the models you mentioned vary wildly (and not all of them outdamage the Leviadon). You then discount 1 less save and 2-4 less wounds as if it was minor, and proceed to ignore the Leviadon gives a pretty significant buff (while most you mentioned give nothing). Plus almost none of those shoot With all that taken into account, it's very difficult to see if those 180 points of difference are fair or not. A Drakesworn Templar is way closer for a comparison, IMHO. Or a Maw-crusha.

I see. It felt somewhat off to field Namarti and not the Soulrender, losing the chance to revive them. But 100 points for only 1d3... Mor'phann has a big opportunity cost, Namarti Corps is 100 points (maybe worth it with 2 Soulrenders?). I guess if I don't go full tilt Namarti Reviving horde it's better to leave the Renders home. I feel the Akhelian Corps is nice, though? Both the Allopex and Leviadon are in it to allow it and to be better. And yes, it's a "like the models" decision. How should I equip the AotStorm? I have two artifact slots and a command trait to assign. Can you please name those models instead of vague references to them? I think if you go full res combo it's relatively nice, if not great.

Ok, so you think if I changed the Aspect of the Sea for the Aspect of the Storm and the Ishlaen for Morrsarr the list would be slightñy better? I'm still trying to make my head around how do people take advantage of first turn Flow Tide. Ok, running and shooting (rerolling 1's to hit) with Reavers is the obvious one. But who should run and charge? Morrsarr wouldn't be able to benefit from it and also benefit from High Tide while having charge bonus. Please explain me if you have it sorted already

Hi, what do you think of this casual-competitive 2000 points list? Going for variety, the models I like and some competitive synergies. The idea is Fuethan Reverse Tides. I didn't decide on any traits/relics/spells yet (advice welcome) Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin- Enclave: FuethanLeadersIsharann Tidecaster (100)- GeneralIsharann Soulscryer (100)Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)Battleline10 x Namarti Reavers (140)10 x Namarti Thralls (140)10 x Namarti Thralls (140)Units3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)BehemothsAkhelian Leviadon (380)BattalionsAkhelian Corps (100)Endless SpellsSoulsnare Shackles (20)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 100 Thanks!

Tempest Lords give enough CPs to do Knight Heraldor+run 6 (1 CA)+Pack Leader (as many CAs as possible)+self-Empower for a nuclear alpha-strike Dracoline unit. Three a unit are nice, 6 would be hideous.

Any thoughts on this from tournament players?

Hi, I'm a new Deepkin player (well, mostly just the owner of a ID battleforce ). I wanted to know your opinion on one matter: is the Soulrender worth it without Mor'phann and/or Namarti Corps? I like the concept and model, and I would like to use Thralls and Reavers (MSU or not). But in a Fuethan Reverse Tide list (which I would favour) only 1d3 casualties and mediocre CaC punch don't seem like a lot for 100 points.

This may have been said already (and maybe it's a tough pill to swallow to BoC players) but Bestigors shouldn't have received their buff and stayed at 120 points. They outclass any heavy hitter battlelines out there. 3 3+ 3+ -1 attacks (sometimes rerolling ones) with good movement, run and charge and 4+ save is crazy for these points. Compare to Namarti Thralls or Grimghast Reapers, both pretty new units.