Kaleun
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Posts posted by Kaleun
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8 hours ago, DocteurQui said:
Hey everyone!
Me and my brother have been playing games against each other for the past couple of months and I constantly lose against him. I was thinking you guys may be able to give me some advice to hopefully at least come close to destroying him for once
I'm playing Darkling Covens (naturally) against his Seraphon, we mainly try to table each other in our games so there's not really a lot of objective grabbing going on. The problem is that he's got Lord Kroak and an Engine of the Gods with him, which are constantly zapping around and being a huge pain in the ass. Their constant teleporting seems to make it impossible to catch them with my mostly infantry Darkling Covens units.
The problem just seems to be that he's got an incredible amount of movement shenanigans, while Darkling Covens (at least to my knowledge) doesn't have any real capacity to do this.
If any of you have any advice for dealing with this, please let me know
It is easy to see where the problem lies. Without mission objectives you simply wont have much chances. As you said the movement ob a teleporting Kroak is far superior to yours. So you have to make him come to you while sitting an big blob of infantry on an objective.
The real strenghts of the Darkling Covens lie in objective grabbing and deniing. Play the rules as written. In some roled scenarios you will loose, but others favor your army! The second tactic for the Covens is counter attacking. This means let the enemy charge your screen of cheap units and counter attack with Black Guard and buffed up Executioners.Dont let your enemy put your army in a worse spot then it would deserve. I like your army list btw and i see that you bring enough bodies to hold those objectives.
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11 hours ago, DantePQ said:
@Kaleun yep I'm doing very fine with - actually only games I've lost out of last 15+ were 3 games against Nagash , it's bad match up but also I was very unlucky in two of them (once I lost all 3 crucial rolls, and once I failed to cast Mirrorpool on 5+) and competitive wise it's really bad match-up so I had to drop my 2x20 Blood Sisters build and narrowed my lists to 2 army builds
1) is pretty standard Morathi, Slaughter Queen, Slaughter Troupe build
2) is a build I'm playing with right now - Slaughter Queen, Bloodwrack Shrine, 2xHag Queen, 2x10 SoS, 30 Witches, 20 Blood Sisters, 2x5 Heartrenders, Slaughter Troupe , I've played like only 5 games with it as I'm playtesting Deepkins as well and it's doing really, really fine - a lot of bodies, SoS are great as screens, great mobility.
Draichi Ganeth I suppose?
both lists look very well built for the competitive scene. I also see Nagash as a tough one for our Daughters.
Ishlaen Guard or Morrsarr Guard? Both of those neat cav deepkin might be a welcome addition to the already fast "Daughters o' good old Khaine".
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hey Dante, I am interested what are your actual list-pool out of the Daughters of Khaine roster?
Still doing good with 'em?
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*edit
I have to add why Darkshards are such a benefit for lists with Executioners and Black Guard. You can keep the Darkshards in front of your combat infantry as a Screen (Close by). Does a combat Action happen to the Screening unit the BG/Exec. behind will be drawn into combat, while usually not being hit.
-> Counter attacking style of the Darkling Covens.
The Black Guard with 2" range can hit over tweo ranks of infantry bases.
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as Azamar has already mentioned you do not furfill the requirements of the battalion. You are also quite heavy on the Heartrenders. I see them as objective grabbers or zoning/meatshield Tools. I recommend dropping ten and taking 2x10 Drakshards into your list.
If you have 20 Points free in your list you can take the Soul shackles. Those are great for stalling and wont hurt us as much as an opposing fast army. The geminids are also very good! All in all the endless spells are great for the Darkling Covens in General as we can make up for weaknesses in Speed and mortal wounds.
@SugarMaple82
That -2 to hit on your SoBD is awesome and really keeps her in Play. Good idea and solid list. I see your Point on the fulminators, but would take the Drakespawn Knights never the less for Duchii reasons. You might want to drop 10 Dreadspear for 10 additional Black Guard or Executioners. As you get 10 better Units for the same Points when you already have Units of 20!!
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Thanks a lot for your well written tournament Report! There is everything in we could wish for. Lists, short description and the result at the beginning.
Congratulations to your victories. Would you Change something in your list for your next tournament?
Personally I would find a block of 30 witches very attractive, because of the Point Discount. Shrine and Steed is a cool combination. (5+ should be okay) with Khailebron so the Shrine is not all alone in the enemies backyard.
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it would be great if you could write a Report about your tournament. Maybe you could write which list you used and against which enemy lists you were matched. What experiences did you make with your list? Would you Change something regarding tactics or in your list?
Sorry that you missed the painting Nomination. Could be different next time!
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The Ladies look impressive on the table!
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9 hours ago, Phynxes said:
I´m thinking of a little conversion, since I´d like to add Doomfire Warlocks to my roster, but want an all female army. My idea is to use the DW horses, but as riders I´d take Sisters of the Thorne, and use some bits from the Witch Aelves. In addition, I thought that the old drakespawns would be nice as mounts for them (as long as it´s okay for my opponent to have drakespawn with horse rules on the table).
For now, this is just an idea, but I´ll want to do this in the near future. I´ll keep you updatet.I recommend using Glade Riders Horses and for the bodies the Sisters of Thorn are a very good kit with nice bits. The bodies might fit well with witch elve heads. (or with just little conversation effort)
Check out the sprues of it holds what you wanna work with:
https://www.games-workshop.com/de-AT/Sisters-of-the-Thorn-2017
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You might like the DoK army shown here:
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10 hours ago, Roark said:
Sorry if I've missed something obvious, but how do you get Execs to pile-in twice??
Alessio said it right. The ability of the Thrall Warhost battalion enpoweres one unit around your Coven Master Sorceress (nominated) to pile in and attack during the hero phase. That doesnt stop the unit fromt piling in later in the combat phase.
This makes maked out units like 30 black Guard very strong and gives the darkling covens its tactics it is famous for: Counter-charge.
welcome to the covens!
I recommend to go for a full thrall warhost first. It will make your 20 Executioners very strong.
Sorceress (100)
Sorceress (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Black Guard (140)
20 x Executioners (320)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Total: 1140You might want to set your goal to 1000 points first and then experiment with the army. Only you know which way your army should take. Thrall Warhost is my personal way and makes your army semi-competitive. If you want to go full onto tournament heavy lists you might want to focus on executioners, but I see that boring as I really like the battleline models of Darkshards, Bleakswords and Dreadspears.
You can find a lot of army lists in this Thread.
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Yes yes the executioners will do a lot more for you then the command point and the lady with pointy ears!
10 Executioners generate 7 mortal wounds on average every combat Phase. Before piling them in twice and before rolling for their normal attacks! Try to do tgat with a sorceress. They also double your wound count and are ten obj. holders.
if you would like to work further then i recommend painting the way you want to setup your force and discuss it.
batte chronicler can help with that for example:
Battlechronicler.com
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if i understood the post correctly then we cant Change anything in the list due to model issues?
I too think that you have not enough bodies. You might have difficulties with objectives and the sustain of your army. Without maxing out your troops you dont make use of Point reductions in your army. However it is not a bad list. If you can Change something I would take out two Sorceresses or one dragon for more troops.
Lets talk tactics. You have literally no unit that can last more then one Close combat Phase against a serious attack. So I recommend Holding your troops together. The two objective grabber Units of Khinerai hurt your staying power also. Do not fly the two Dragons off. You Need them behind your Units to generate attack force and threat. Keep in mind that enemy Missile Units are very scary for you. Keep the less important like Darkshards or Spears in front of your elite troops to soak up the first Charge. Donit expect them to do anything. The damage must come from your spells, Dragons with rend and Mortal wound executioners.
Before the tournament your should do a lot of practice games so you trust your force and keep every rule in mind without looking it up.
Try to think about bad matchups for your army and how you would beat your own army. This will make you develop Counter tactics and develop Reactions.
Most games are won in the movement Phase! So study the table were you will be playing and try to figure out how you Keep your strength together.
At last I wish you good luck and Khaines Blessing.
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The doppelganger cloak seems to be a great item! I really looking forward to my first AoS 2 game with Order Serpentis, as I really see value in the item on a Dreadlord on Black Dragon. I am thinking of something like 2 Dragons: one with Exile Blade + Dimensional Blade and the other with the doppelganger cloak as you said. Put some Drakespawn Knights, a chariot and a hydra in for the battalion requierments and we find a 1500 point army from ulgu and the Anvilguard rules (Implacable March).
The reason I fell in love with the Incorporal Retainer is the speed it provides in the first battle round. The most important phase, which ultimately won us the game, was the first movement phase. Darkling Covens are very good at holding objectives! The Chronomatic Cogs, the Inc. Retainer and also the Ability "On the double" for 1 command point is so good for us. There isnt much that can move a 30 men unit of black guard with battleshock immunity from the sorceress, bravery 8+2 and a screen ob Darkshards in front and in the backfield.
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thank you very much. I understand the discussion, but me and the other Players agreed that it is possible. The Dimensional Blade makes the assassines insanly great. I can see no real reason not to take the artefact as the assassin is also from ulgu as is the rest of the army.
The Sorceress vs. sorceress on black Dragon (SoBD) is a great Topic!
I totally agree with you. Do not see the SoBD as a straightforward combat unit. She is a "Support Platform". There are a few reasons why I took her into my army.
.) She is a great Support. Having the new rules in AoS 2 allows more Command abilities per hero Phase which is great on the darkling covens
.) when I take the Thrall Warhost I make her my General and also the coven leader. For this I Need more sustain, which the Sorceress doesnt provide. The Coven leader is a key target so we Need as much sustain for her as we can get. This brings us to the multiwound Dragon.
.) mobility is key. Some battleplans require your heroes to take objectives.
.) In some games the SoBD can act as mobile firefighter and help on flanks
.) bigger base! This increases the buff bubble of her abilities
.) She sits on a Dragon!! This alone is a impressive sight and the enemy respects the claws and jaws of the Dragon. Also she brings much needed rend to the table
.) Arcane bolt received a nerf which makes her Bladewind a bit more interesting
.) Thrall Tactic: In the game mentioned above I used the Thrall Warhost Ability to Charge my SoBD into a Mournghul in the hero Phase, well knowing that she wont survive a Retaliation. After doing damage in the hero Phase I launched the Geminids and flew away to the backfield during the movement Phase saving my SoBD.although she is still expensive the SoBD has a lot of uses. Just dont engage her alone or she wont last. In my games you find her in the backfield while waiting for easy late game kills. However the Sorceress on foot also has great uses and might be the better bargain pointwise!! Lets have a look:
.) Sorceress does now have "look out Sir" Close to Units
.) she has one of the best spells in the game (Word of Pain)!
.) small size can hide her behind Terrain
.) quite cheap
.) Balewind Vortex available
For smaller games i would also take the Sorceress on foot. Be careful with the Battalion though! If you make a Sorceress on foot the coven leader you efficiently created a 280 Point (100+180 for the Warhost) objective with 5 wound and a bad save for the enemy making your battalion obsolete if she dies!Take "Impossibly Swift" on the Sorceress on Dragon! It is just great.
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thank you for the battle Report. I respect it a lot when People post loosing games. We do improve more with learning from lost games then from victories!
lest dive into your list: There are a few Problems with the list, which are mandatory for the darkling covens. First is Speed! Your only unit with a movement over 6" are the Heartrenders and they are just taking a sneeze from the enemy to fall apart. The Inc. Retainer is a good choice as you might be able to get your Units into Shooting range or onto the important objectives.
Two Sorceresses are good to have, but you dont use any of the new shiny endless spells. Do not expect any damage form the Darkshards! They produce a lot of shots, but without any rend those pesky Liberators just shake the bolts off.
I recommend to make use of the battleline - ability of executioners and the Black Guard. Those Units provide rend and much needed mortal wounds. Your expections for the Darkshards should see them as a Screen for your more elite Units and a backline defence against teleporting Units (chaff/Zoning). This is the field where they excel best.
The combination of Bleakswords in front, second row spears and third the darkshards Sound appealing, but produce big cost (300 Points per 3x10 men) without being a powerhouse combination. You might get more from the Discount of 40 maxed out Spearmen as the cost just 60 Points more for 10 more wounds and the possibility to let 3 rows fight.
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I played my first game of AoS 2 last Weekend. It was great! I am playing Druchii factions only and Chose 2000 Points of the Darkling Covens. We had a teamgame with 2x2000 Points per side. My list from Ulgu and I sided with Stormacast vs. the great armies of death (Host of nagash and Nighthaunt). I think the Scenario was "Duality of Death" (the one with the 4 objectives giving 1-2-4 VP per battleround)
Sorceress On Black Dragon (280)
Sorceress (100)
Assassin (80)
40 x Dreadspears (360)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
20 x Executioners (320)
30 x Black Guard (360)
Thrall Warhost (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Total: 1980 / 2000We won the game bacause we could take the two middle objectives early. The decanter of Egos brought my Black Guard in fast and before them a shielding Screen of Darkshards. Executioners stood ready for a Counter Charge. Bringing a lot of bodies which can fight decently is one of the big strenghts of the darkling covens. Also the new endless spells helped a lot for the lackluster movement and the lack of rend/mortal wounds in my army. MVP of the game was the Assassin with Dimensional Blade (-3 rend) which slaughtered Mr. 7 wound Arkhan the Black in one turn of combat before he could strike.
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Dark Elves are my first and only love in both the Wahammer World and AoS. So I am pretty hyped for the "Warhammer Legends" Rules.
Biggest thing for me: We have now clear rules about the Reaper Bolt Thrower. So no Crew-Sniping anymore! It lost a bit of its damage potential but gained the single shot it had in the Warhammer universe.
Point costs: I dont see why you wouldnt use the point costs of the recent warscrolls. There is nothing new in this Warhammer Legends Compendium. We already have point costs for everything.
The buffs for the Executioners and the Black Guard (etc.) have already been mentioned. I think we will have that changes soon be brought over to the Darkling Covens and the Order Serpentis. Finally the Dark elves get some proper rend on their Executioners.
There are downsides never the less. The Dreadlord on Black Dragon got a much smaller shield (reroll 1s instead of everything) and some core rules (like the +2 bravery of banners near heroes) are lost. Assas got their much needed rend now.
I am am sad that GW left the Druchii-Warhost Battalion aside. It was my favourite.
I see the legends Compendium more as a sign that we will have rules for our old models in the future. Good Job GW!
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8 hours ago, syph0n said:
Thanks @Double Misfire. I was pretty certain this would be the case for all points, but wanted to check. My only hope would have been that I could take a mixed battleline of Corsairs/Drakespawn but I can see why that might not be very 'fair'.
I would rather not take a cosmopolitan list if I can avoid it as 1) I don't mind being uncompetitive (as long as I'm not stomped week after week) and 2) I want to use the models I already own before I go buying a load of other faction models!
If you are interested, the Anvilguard boxed set is a bang for the buck. I can recommend it. It gets even better if you get some discount on it.
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1 hour ago, Nutty said:
@Double Misfire I did, it's about time Morathi got an update. The "current" model is a bit... outdated, and not in a good way. So I'm pretty excited where they take her.
The Order Alliance + sprinkles is what I was referring too: rather that going Order or Darkling Covens + Allies.. I could just stuff 80% of my collection into an 'anvilgard' army and be done with it. Bu since I would like to run some 'exile' units from the compendium I suppose it's going to be 'Order Allegiance' anyway.
-> newest trailer.
I see Morathi, Witch elves and something like a new Harpy in there.-
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4 hours ago, The Traitor said:
A friend is starting AoS with Anvilgard so I've been reading their rules and for what I've understood you can't take allies at all if you play a firestorm city as it specifically says that an army of "x city" can only have models from the following list of alliegances, and don't list any ally options, so right now you can't take Dark Raiders. You could ally aetherwings however as stormcasts are listed in the armies you can take with Anvilgard. That said I think the list, while solid, would be better if you had some chaff, maybe it's me coming from 40k, but screens are invaluable in my opinion, and in Anvilgard you should really benefit from having, well, an anvil
, so that your faster units can surround the enemy while your infantry makes a frontal charge.
well we have a nice cheap chaff unit here:
Allegiance: Anvilguard
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Ebondrake Master (320)
Dreadlord On Black Dragon
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
2 x Drakespawn Chariots (200)
3 x Aetherwings (60)
- Allies
40 x Black Ark Corsairs (260)
- Vicious Blades & Repeater Handbows
- Allies
War Hydra (200)
Ebondrake Warhost (160)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 128The 40 Corsairs get inspired Presence or reroll their Battleshock test (Order All. ability). You could even try to wrap the whole 40 around an enemy unit to trigger the implacable march.
The implacable March might have interesting psychological effect on the enemy. The hydra is the second Anvil in this army list. It is quite hard to remove. -
My latest Approach to the Anvilguard:
Allegiance: Anvilgard
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (100)
3 x Aetherwings (60)
- Allies
3 x Aetherwings (60)
- Allies
5 x Dark Riders (120)
- Allies
War Hydra (200)
Ebondrake Warhost (160)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 108I will use old "Dark Elve Harpies" as the Aetherwings to Keep the clean druchii style to my army, The plan is to rush Forward as fast as possible. The Dragons and Aetherwings can fly over the enemy while Cavalry and the Chariot can take the enemy head on. The list lacks Mortal Wounds but the Implacable March should make up for it.
If I read it right, also the Shadowblade-Dark Riders should now make use of the Implacable March of the Anvilguard allegiance, because we have the right allegiance. Artefacts/traits are order related.What do you think?
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1 hour ago, wanderingrogue said:
So the unprooven experimental ones? Ill take that as a no then ?
What do you mean by "unproven"? Personally I field that units in my army and they have been "battle-proven".
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On 20.10.2017 at 5:27 PM, Sheriff said:
Am i right in thinking that when fighting against anvilgard i could flank with chargey cav units, be forced to retreat 6 inches by this allegiance ability, and be able to charge right back into combat with fresh charge buffs? Sounds great
The Anvilguard ability Triggers in the Anvilguards-OWNERS hero Phase. So if you are able to Charge in your round the Anvilguard Player might have made a mistake in his round.
On 20.10.2017 at 5:51 PM, wanderingrogue said:So is there a "list" yet for anvil guard?
Or is it still all highly experimental..
look in the Posts above and find our suggestions...
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You may use the abilities in the order you please during your hero phase. That makes the discussed Ebondrake Warhost also viable.
, so that your faster units can surround the enemy while your infantry makes a frontal charge.
AoS 2 - Darkling Covens Discussion
in Order
Posted
I would like to add, that it is not necessary to kill Kroak. Your goal should be to out-sustain his damage and win the game with your superior numbers and objective grabbing. Just let him fly around as Kroak pleases.
Dont get yourself bothered by his pesky magic. Kroak is a big point investment for your enemy. Focus on the other parts of his army and crush them instead. Kroak alone wont win a game.