Baron Wastelands

Torrbad comes in for a bit of a bashing! While all the BCR battalions are expensive and a bit restrictive, I agree, I have nonetheless had quite a bit of fun with Torrbad. Really, the key ability here is that yhetees can pin units in place until they are wiped out. In an army that struggles with any kind of board control, that’s great, and also I think unique? So it’s not just that yhetees can hold things in place while thundertusks shoot them (though against melee army that’s great fun), it’s that you can also prevent objective grabs with key units, and given the yhetees other abilities, you can often do this for a turn or two at least, and choose where and when. Also because of the changes to shooting in AoS 2, they can help with the main enemy of the Torrbad list - ranged units. No longer can they retreat from combat and plink your ttusks as they want to. The main drawback is that in a 2k list you can only fit 3 msu yhetees, so you are very light on bodies. But although there are advantages to keeping the ttusks together (+3 to healing prayer, usually +2 to melee mortal wounds chance) you don’t have to - 2 sets of 2 is sometimes better, and still get to utilise buffs, as well as crossfire 😊

I just don’t think they’ll do it. Why would they introduce a multi kit for 4 weapon teams now they only have rules for 3? I’d be happy to be wrong, but I think once gone, gone for good.

1) yep, best fit is a deathmaster (the new assassin) but the good news is you now have 2 2) I’m using mine as a master moulder, but you could also use him as one of 3 packmasters, as 1 in 3 can have a things-catcher. 4) yet they did. Wondering about cutting mine up and making acolytes out of them, as others have suggested.

@That Guy I’d run yhetees in 6s, yes. @heywoah_twitch I’m certainly not arguing that mournfang are better per se than yhetees, more that if you happen to own 8 mournfang already, they are not much worse than yhetees on balance. Sure yhetees get buffs from thundertusks, but really you want your yhetees in melee, and your thundertusks at range. I do really like the synergy between the 2 in a Torrbad, where yhetees can pin units in place while ttusks shoot at them - but then we’re back to expensive buffs. Everything you say is right; but mournfangs are decried a bit, and I personally don’t find them that bad in general, quite resilient in fact, and better in 4s than in 2s. For BCR at any rate 😉

I didn’t mean to start a debate on base size. I was showing an image to demonstrate that a paint pot top is a reasonable size for a cauldron if you can’t get hold of one! By all means mount it on the correct base size - I reserve the right to base my own models 😁 but by no means take my comments as advice on what to do regarding base size for your own models, it is certainly true that you are safer using the guidelines if you want to play wherever. But equally, be aware that the guidelines do change, so pausing before rebasing as soon as a new book comes out is advisable.

Yeah, I don’t understand that one. Have just converted a Loonboss on great cave squig myself, and mounted it on a 40mm round. 50 swamps it. It might get changed, I certainly wouldn’t change anything this early after the battletome.

If you have all this already, then try it out by all means, but if you don’t I wouldn’t build towards this as your first list. The ships just aren’t very offensive - even buffed to hit, you just don’t throw out enough firepower to rely on them. In my opinion, ships are a transport option - to get key units into melee (units of riggers, and in more than 3s) or into firing position (e.g thunderers), or onto objectives early (any). Khemists are also really useful (borderline mandatory for KO) to buff either type of unit, but remember Khemists only support one weapon type each, so a unit with multiple weapons doesn’t benefit as much. In any event, I think 1 ironclad and 2 frigates in a 2k list is too many ships that won’t make their points back, and leave you with too little else to really have an impact.

But only then if your general is Pestilens! 🤪 Ignore that if you’re trying to still wrap your head around it. I think @CJPT said it really clearly, but maybe an example army would help. imagine: Arch Warlock, Master Moulder, 40 clanrats, 40 clanrats, 3 stormfiends. This mixes clans, so only your clanrats count as battleline. You have 2 so that’s fine for 1k. You warlock and stormfiends get to use Skryre abilities (sparks), your moulder gets to use moulder abilities (hmm, should’ve brought an HPA), and they all get to use skaven tide abilities (strength in numbers etc). EITHER hero can be your general, and can use a command trait from their clan. EITHER can have an artifact, again from their respective clan. The allegiance of the army is: skaventide. in order to use the stormfiends as battleline, you’d need to remove the non-skryre elements - I.e. the clanrats and the master moulder. Being 100% Clan Skryre changes nothing except the ability to use stormfiends and acolytes as Battleline. So: Arch warlock, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 5 acolytes is a 1k list with 4 battleline units. However: Arch warlock, 40 clanrats, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 5 acolytes is a list where the clanrats prevent the use of the other units as battleline, so only the clanrats themselves count as battleline. You need more than 1 battleline at 1k, so invalid. Then, the peculiar exception to all this is that you can replace any general with a masterclan general without mucking up the 100% clan requirement. so: grey seer, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 5 acolytes is still a 1k list with 4 battleline units. Oh, and then don’t try to ally without a handrail.

What’s this? Screen them with giant rats, you heretic! 🤣

I think that’s a nice balanced list (for BCR anyway!). Looking forward to seeing it take shape.

I rebased well before the guidelines came out. Made a guess at “bigger than 40mm with a cauldron”, so he’s on a 50mm, like my tyrants; butchers without are still on 40mm. But sure. To be honest, a lot of my stuff is on bases that suit the model, particularly where the guide has changed several times. I initially rebased all of my trolls on 40mm rounds, for example, and am very happy with it, not going to rebase again now the guide is 50mm. They can’t stand base to base much, so playing distance is general fine. For tournament play, absolutely, and for competitive play where it matters I magnetise onto the right size - my stonehorns/tusks are on chariot bases, for example, but I have bigger blank bases to ‘caddy’ them onto; but most of the time as we’re not trying to abuse base size it doesn’t really matter. Even less so with heroes, where there are pros and cons anyway.

Ok, so I have been playing around with Stormfiends, and have discovered this: A unit of 6 with 2 Ratling cannons, 2 windlaunchers, 2 shock gauntlets (or the doomflayers , it doesn’t matter much, though I think the shock gauntlets will slightly outperform) when buffed by a general with deranged inventor and vigordust injector (and popping a spark for additional damage) will throw out an obscene amount of shots. Try it - you’ll like it! The windlaunchers do a solid amount at range and from out of sight, but then the ratling cannons really come into their own: 6d6 (avg 21) damage 2 shots, hitting on 3+ rerollable, wounding on 3+. That’s an average of 12 wounding rend 1 damage 2 hits. if you can get a spell off (mmwarppower) on them too, you can Reroll wounds too (and use deranged inventor on a different unit) for an average of nearly 17 wounding rend 1 damage 2 hits. remember the windlaunchers also get +1 to hit against units over 10, meaning they will also reasonably reliably deal an average of about 9 wounds (at -3 rend), or 13 when the unit is affected by the spell. You have to take d3 wounds a bit, more if you’re using the spell, but the gauntleted ones give you 14 wounds before you start to lose effectiveness. As such, I’m having lots of experimental fun with a Vanguard list of: Arch warlock - deranged inventor, vigordust injector 6x stormfiends, 2 ratling, 2 launchers, 2 shock g 3x stormfiends, warpfire, grinderfists, shock g 5x acolytes 1000pts.

Not good ones, but just to give you the ideae

Unless you own 8 mournfang and not 15 yhetees 😁 I disagree that yhetees are way better. Yhetees certainly have their place (like in a Torrbad, for example 😉), and have some nice tricks that mournfang don’t, like pile in shenanigans and -1 to hit in melee; but mournfangs have better move, better armour, actually comparable damage output, etc. In 2s, they don’t do much, admittedly, but in 4s I’ve found them to be much more useful.

Modelled a cauldron basing it on a paint pot top. Was about the right size. Alternatively try something like a playmobile cauldron as a base. Don’t have any scraplaunchers so can’t comment, but you hit the nail on the head with the ironblaster. I love it, and I want it to be good, but 1 shot means it usually ... isn’t.

Yes, I’ve been playing around with it on and off, see earlier discussion on this thread. The problem really is that their damage output at range just isn’t great; so you end up getting bogged down in combat anyway. They aren’t bad at that, but ... they’re not the best, and it isn’t gunline really. I’ve had limited success staggering them to take charges with backup in 12” range (this worked amazingly well in one game in particular against khorne) but the damage is a bit swingy and you can’t rely on it. Tyrants don’t know what to do, and butchers ... well, they synergise better in such a list, but not really in terms of boosting shooting, which they desperately need a buff for. Ironblasters just don’t help. So, overall, hmmm. Hoping it becomes more viable if we get a new book 😉

Tough match up. I think your best bet is gunline - use your arkanauts as throwaway screens to absorb charges and get wiped out, then fire with your back line of thunderers. Multiple units of thunderers will mean you can always retreat some in the combat phase when they get charged too, and just hope you can whittle them down before they overrun you. I don’t think ships are much good to you, and you want to avoid melee as much as you can.

Yep, 6 riggers on the frigate is a better idea, as I suspect is 30 vulkites. I think you’re probably right to take out the gunhauler, as although it will protect your frigate, your frigate only has to deliver a combat package, and after that it’s not a priority target.

It’s an interesting Beasts list - while he can get to objectives early, he can’t really hold them if you go in with strong numbers. The shaman and the Ungors will be hanging around the herd stone, leaving the only block as 20 bestigors. Buffed ogres can deal with those. You could consider: Tyrant Butcher 12 ogors 12 ogors 12 ogors 1500pts. Alternatively, swap one unit of 12 for 6 leadbelchers and a couple of gorgers, if you want to be able to disrupt quicker. Of course, if you only have 12 ogors but extra leadbelchers, I’d still consider running a main block of 12 ogors, they’re just really efficient for the points. Maybe in that case run your original list but with all 12 ogors in one unit, and then remove the maneaters and add a second unit of 6 leadbelchers. Belchers are not actually bad in melee, so don’t worry about using them this way, just think of any shots you get in on the way in as a bonus.

You can’t put anything in a gunhauler, not even riggers, because it doesn’t have the embark rule. Gunhaulers are really only useful as ablative wounds for ironclads, and even then they’re a costly way to do it. I also think 3 riggers is not enough to do much, much better to run a single unit of 6 rather than 2x3. Aethermatic volley guns on arkanauts are not bad support for thunderers, but I think if you’re taking units of 10 thunderers I’d either put 2 mortars in there too, or cut them all out and run them with just rifles, buffed by a khemist. Which you don’t have in your list - but a khemist is pretty much essential to KO. I don’t have any experience running fyreslayer allies, but I think berserkers are better run in larger numbers too. Be interesting to know how you get on running them as a screen for arkanauts, but my guess would be units of 10 will just be overrun.

I get the reasons for wanting to take a butcher, and use him a lot with Gutbusters; it’s just that his buffs are a little too random to reliably do what you need them to do when you need them to do it; and against any magic competent army his casting ability will be shut down. Maw can be great, but also can be disappointing if it doesn’t go off/ doesn’t spread. He is also slow moving in a fast moving army (when allied into BCR). All that said, he can be great - and as long as you are careful about placement so that the rest of your army doesn’t charge away out of range, I think vortex and cogs are a solid choice. Yhetees have 2 uses (outside a Torrbad, where they can also tarpit anything). Firstly, they have pile in shenanigans, which when coupled with decent resilience, can allow you to tie up key units and/or get more of your first attacks home than you would otherwise be entitled to. For this, a unit of 6 is more durable, and will do more consistent damage when you’re ready to pile in. Second, they have some synergy with your ‘tusk, make a decent screen for it, and can run and charge from it when necessary. I think probably I’d run as one unit of 6, unless you are likely to need a spread for objectives, although to be honest you’re in an uphill battle anyway if there’s lots of objectives. Crucially though, for my money, yhetees gets you more bodies and more wounds compared to the butcher with spells.

Like this list. Mournfang In 4s, definitely. I’m not convinced by the pendulum, and while the vortex is a useful platform to cast the maw from, it ties your butcher down, which is slightly odd in such a mobile army. Personally, I think you’d get more mileage out of 6 yhetees than the butcher and spells, but a lot of people seem to be allying in a butcher for BCR currently.

Surely this is intentional design. The message for scryre is go elite or go horde. Given the tools Scryre (now) has in elite forces, being able to bolster with just one tarpit of clanrats, while ever so useful, is presumably considered a bit too powerful, especially given that skaven got a whole new way to mix and match.

That’s why we have ships to drop them all off 😊 Whatever ships might not be (mobile fortresses, cannon platforms, durable tanks) they are transports; something no other army has.

It’s an interesting list. I think your Thundertusk will be a priority target, but that might allow you to get the rest of your units where you want them. Yhetees are actually quite efficient, and they can help control things where you want them. The biggest issue you will have I think is that you don’t have enough models to contest against large units, nor anything with (individually) enough punch to remove them.