Unter

Done squire

Hi can you put Phil McGuinness down for this please? ta

Soulscryers are pivotal to how our lists work, you could make an argument that Tidecaster's table flip is equally central to many lists.

Can you sign me up please? Phil Mcguinness

If you read my post properly, I mention that the the runner-up of the tournament had no games against Daughters, Stormcast or Nagash, I'm aware Terry played some tough lists. I think the point stands that if you finish 2nd without playing Sacrosanct/DoK/Nagash, that is a softer tournament. And yeah I think Terry finishing 3rd/7th on GameScore is awesome, power to him!

I like it but I think you are losing some plaguebearer survivability with the small units. They are mainly tanky because of their -1 to hit, which you need 20 models for. How about this: LeadersGreat Unclean One (340)- Plaue Flail & Massive BileswordGreat Unclean One (340)- Plaue Flail & Massive BileswordRotigus (340)Battleline30 x Plaguebearers (320)20 x Plaguebearers (240)Units30 x Bestigors (300)BattalionsThricefold Befoulment (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 128

I actually think Terry's thricefold list was about as competitive as thricefold can be. I don't know who he played, but bear in mind that the runner-up of the tournament had no games against Daughters, Stormcast or Death/Nagash. He played a vanilla Nighthaunt list and beat 5 variations of chaos. Not taking too much away from the winner, who of course played DoK, but it shows its a relatively soft tournament where you can place second without facing any of the 3 hardest lists in the game (Nagash, DoK, Sacrosanct). Thricefold is gonna be low on bodies and damage output, given how much has to be invested in the 3 big lads. I think Terry probably made the right decision by focusing on board coverage so he wouldn't autolose some of the most common Battleplans, big kudos Furthermore, as AoShorts mentiones, Based on gaming score alone, the top 5 would have been: Ben Savva – Daughters of Khaine Robert Sedgeman – Death Gary Percival – Sacrosanct Chamber Nick Thompson – Order Chris Myhill – Order But by all accounts Terry's Thricefold was incredibly painted

I think a huge amount of the power of Evocators is their synergy with Gavriel to guarantee the charge. Not sure they are hot stuff without that

It's just way too many points. You will fail the spell about 1/4 of the time, which is actually quite a lot, without even factoring in dispel, which you can't reliably hide from late game. It is a cool combo, just think that 220 could go elsewhere.

Spicy, but that's a hell of a lot of points. Interesting points in there. I think the reason I'd favour the Witch Aelves is not bodies necessarily in a defensive sense, but another scary block that has to be dealt with. I think its sometimes overestimated how much utility a purely defensive unit has, and I'm a big believer in units needing to carry ‘threat’ in AoS. Nevertheless, compelling and I’ll give it some thought for sure. Agree also to your point about a lot of the Waelves scariness fading without 5+ rerollable save etc. Sisters I’ve looked at a few times but I’m put off by their points cost and the unreliability of their spell. You should get a 6 to cast their spell off, but you’ll fail about a quarter of them, even if you can keep them out of dispel. I think they'd be worth consideration at 180 points or so. Given that turns 1/2/3 are the ones that decide the game, it wouldn't be ridiculous for you to fail the cast on t1, then be within dispel range by 3. Maybe Ionrach could help here? Don't think the allegiance ability would help them though Besides, once your Ishlaen are in combat, they aren't getting another charge any time soon and their cover will dissapear on t2, also you don't get cover when you charge right? Leaving them on a 4+ rerollable, kicking wounds on a 6+. Not sure if this is "220pts good", compared to the output of Morsarr. Again, food for thought, but it's gonna feel hella bad to not get the cast off

As the above poster said, with AoS2 you just need to capture an objective by tagging it, then you hold it even when you move off. I've spent very little time camping objectives unless I'm waiting for an opponent to deep strike and contest it. In that case I've used heartrenders, but thralls you can leave if you really need to. Games tend to be decided by a few crucial combats, rather than disparate melees across the field, so if you've too many points tied down on far flung objectives unable to join the fight, you'll get outnumbered where the enemy concentrates their force better. The biggest single strength we have is we can get quickly to where we need to be, and bring big damage when we do. Leviadon I don't know. He's a lot of points for not very much, and we don't tend to play enough infantry to really get the most out of his cover. Remember, the Leviadon doesn't benefit from his own cover as he's a monster, so he isn't the tankiest thing ever. Aspect of the Storm in a bad list is worse than eels, but with adequate support I think he is decent.

But remember they are only sitting on a 4+ save, unless they charge. Like, sure they can tie stuff up, but you still need to kill your opponent, and they won't do it. As you say, mortal wounds will mess them up, but so will volume of attacks unless they get in cover. If you want to take the Leviadon and a big group of Ishlaen you are then investing about c.700 points in an 'anvil' unit that will be a damp squib in combat. You have to play to Deepkin's strengths, which to my mind are force maximisation, enabled by our mobility. We can bring all of our damage to bear practically wherever we want on the table, at a time of our choosing. Very few armies can do that, and I think if we spend our time compensating for what we aren't good at (long, grinding combats), we will dilute what we are good at - long range, reliable damage output.

Hey, I did pretty well (3 major wins, one minor loss, one major loss to the tournament winner) at a recent 40 player event with the following list: Akhelian King - Cloud of Midnight Tidecaster Scryer 10 Thralls 10 Thralls 10 Thralls 9 Morsarr 9 Morsarr 5 Khinerai Heartrenders 5 Khinerai Heartrenders Very few armies can handle that many eels, who are after all reasonably tanky with 4 wounds each. I lost to Nurgle on killpoints for the minor defeat, and to a Tzangor spam to pretty decent opponents, but I took out Nighthaunt, Sylvaneth and Khorne in relatively straightforward games. Next tournament I'm looking to ally in some Witch Aelves to get more bodies on the board. Considering the following: LeadersHag Queen (60)Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (400) - Cloud/Ethereal AmuletIsharann Soulscryer (100)Isharann Tidecaster (100) - GeneralBattleline30 x Witch Aelves (270)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives10 x Namarti Thralls (140)10 x Namarti Thralls (140)10 x Namarti Thralls (140)Units6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 135 I'd consider dropping to a single unit of 9 eels, or switching Eidolon for more eels/King. A cloud/ethereal character seems too powerful to drop

Yea its frustrating, Aspect of Sea ends up being jack of all trades master of none. Even poorer in current meta where serious magic armies like Nagash practically guarantee you aren't getting his spells off.

Hello! First things first, IDK are very strong, and while eels are mandatory if you want to be competitive, you don’t have to go mono-eel. The Leviadon and the Eidolon are both useful models, probably overcosted, but you can certainly incorporate them. The Allopexes also, to an extent. You’ve got some seriously poor units though, that are basically dead weight. Disclaimer: I feel your pain. Big fan of the Reavers and Lotann, sad that they are hot trash. The soulrenders only really get close to worthwhile regen with Morph’ann Enclave and the Batallion, and even then they are poor. Lotann (memes aside) is more or less unplayably bad, as are Reavers. If you want a cheap screen, ally in some Khinerai Heartrenders for 80 points per 5 models. These can deploy off the board and deep strike to take objectives or screen charges. Reavers will do 1-2 wounds at long range into a 4+ save, and have a good chance of doing 0 damage to anything higher. Thralls are excellent, but I’d advise splitting them into 3 units of 10. They are extremely squishy and only have 1” range. This means if you DO get them into combat, you aren’t getting full benefit. If you take any significant casualties furthermore, you are losing a fair chunk to battleshock. This is mitigated by multiple units that are also more tactically flexible. Way I see it, you can keep your Allopexes and Leviadon, even your Eidolon, but you can free up 580 points, over 25% of your army, by dropping the Reavers and Soulrenders. This saving would enable you to split your thralls into 3x10, and fit in 9 more eels. You could then end up with something like this: Leaders Akhelian King (240) Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440) Isharann Soulscryer (100) Isharann Tidecaster (100) Battleline 10 x Namarti Thralls (140) 10 x Namarti Thralls (140) 10 x Namarti Thralls (140) Units 9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480) 1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140) 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 108 You probably have to make a choice between Eidolon and Leviadon in most games, otherwise you'll have close to 1k of your army tied up in two models. This list is probably too squishy for me, and if I was taking Eidolon I'd probably not take King or Allopex, and put the savings into more eels, but this is the skeleton of what a stronger list could look like with your models.

Hi folks, tempted by Sylvaneth at the moment but more by a shooting/magic heavy list. Is this viable at all these days? Seeing people lean more towards alpha strike dryad heavy armies. Also, what battalions do you guys get the most value from? Cheers!

Depends if you are thinking super competitive or friendly if competitive, drop the Reavers, Allopex and Akhelian Corps, bring more Morsarr. Fuethan and Dhomhain seem to be the best for most people, don't really see Nautilar working

I think its a dangerous game staying off the board till turn 3, which is why I'm leaning towards Fuethan. By turn 3 you could be a very long way behind in objectives if you keep 1/3 of your army off the table. There's also the issue of screening. If a good player keeps his big hitters screened, or sacrifices just one of his big units - bearing in mind we have to come in on a clump on one board edge - we might find ourselves too far behind to come back. Remember, 9 eels will kill most things anyway, especially with biovoltaic shock, do we really need to stack another 6 attacks on them?

Haha yeah, mine always die too Even a handful of them can cause some chaos though. 3 of mine did the last 4 wounds of a stardrake the other night, game winning play as it opened up a Morsarr charge onto an Evocator block. It was a little lucky, but they still had a 40% chance of doing that damage, which isn't too unrealistic.

Allopexes are very poor, Leviadon is too, but I know some people disagree. The strongest list is eel spam, which is extremely fast, and we have virtually no ranged damage output, so I wouldn't really compare to sylvaneth. I'd say a 'balanced' Idoneth Army with all the fun stuff in is mid-lower tier, while an eel heavy army is just below top tier. You can deploy so much stuff off the board and don't have any restrictions on when you come down, unlike say, Stormcast. Magic is ok and alpha strike is one of the best in the game. Aspects are pointed about right, not too strong, not too weak.

I saw bits and pieces on stream. It really isn't about how you line up a thrall charge, or whatever, you just have the thralls, and if people are targetting them they aren't targetting your eels. Both lists I think played 15-18 Morsarr, to give you some context. In that environment targetting the Thralls isn't a great idea. To clarify, I think any strategy depending on Thralls to win the game will NOT work. But as a filler unit, used to control the board and objectives, they pack a good punch.

Hey Thralls are core to good lists. Both the high placing Deepkin lists at BoBo (big English tourney) on the weekend played with I think 30 thralls split across 3 units. They aren't superheroes, but they are very solid for what they do. For example, you'd expect 10 thralls to do 8 wounds to a high wound monster with a 3+ save, that's without any buffs. They tear through multi-wound, high armour targets, which is a relatively rare commodity, and they are flexible enough to deal with hordes. You'd expect around 9 wounds against infantry with a 4+ save, for example. Crucially they also fight in both turns, remember you are still fighting with them after your opponent activates in his turn. Again, not saying they are perfect, but they are very solid battleline.

I'm not sure what is doing your damage here, your thralls I guess? But kill them and everything else has pretty low output. Also 95 wounds is very fragile!

Yea I really don't think it would work unless you absolutely played around it. Even then, it won't be competitive. Closest I could get to competitiveness for Morphann would be the following: Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin- Enclave: Mor'PhannLeadersEidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)Isharann Soulrender (100)Isharann Soulrender (100)Battleline30 x Namarti Thralls (360)30 x Namarti Thralls (360)30 x Namarti Thralls (360)Units6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 136 If you traded Sea for Storm you could switch the Ishlaen to Morsarr, but you might miss the bravery buff on the Thralls.

Just to respond to this point on Reavers with a similar point I've made before to provide some game detail to the excellent spreadsheet that has also been linked: It's important to be realistic about the output of a single unit of Reavers. Over 9" range you'd expect 1.5 wounds per turn if you are shooting into a 4+ save, and you have a very good chance of doing 0 damage to a 3+ save.Even at close range a full volley would only expect to do 3/4 wounds into a 4+ save, and 2 wounds into a 3+.Say if you took 3 units of Reavers, that would mean 420 points of your army shooting from distance into a 4+ save would do 3-4 wounds.If you are taking them as objective grabbers they are neither cheap nor survivable, with low saves and low bravery. And as the other poster mentioned, their already extremely low damage falls off swiftly as soon as they lose 1 or 2 models.If you are looking for cheap, flexible objective grabbers, ally in some Khinerai Heartrenders, who you can deploy off the board before deep striking them in. They also won't do much damage, but you can keep them to take objectives turn 3-4 when no other unit can cross the board to steal. The best use I've had out of my reavers (who I do think are super cool models!) has been to put them out front to get shot at instead of my thralls. Though that does beg the question as to whether it wouldn't be better to just take...another unit of thralls, then if any do somehow survive I'll have the consolation that they will still do decent damage.