broche

Haven't play the matchup (played against with Ironjawz) but i think it's pretty bad indeed. Gloompsite is more a grinding army, and BR like that because they can repop model. BR weakness is board coverage and the fact their hero need to keep close to their hero to get their buff. So you need to exploit that weakness. Ignore Mortek guard early, try to engage the cataplut (using hand of gork, it can't shoot while in melee) and kill what actually die (heros, kavalos) . They also don't have a lot of flying, so you can disrupt them with endless spell. A well placed skuttletide for exemple can steal a turn from Mortek guard.

My main problem with Ardfits is that you need shitload of ardboys and Gruntas and Brutes look awesome I think the nerf of once per destroyed unit (like the Moonclan terrain) is coming. I think bataillion will still be quite usable. Bringing back model is a powerful mecanic, even if it's random, especially considering bataillion is super cheap.

Yeah, i think having brutish cunning + artefact is worth more than the extra 2-3 waagh pts per turn. Etheral amulet is especially strong in the meta right now

So played a game yesterday against cities (Greywater heavy shooting) on Better part of Valour. I told him Iwould be using drakfoot, so he took Eternal guard over Phoenix guard to improve his matchup. Played this list (see below). Basically I took first turn and charged with Boar and Stabbas. I missed all my cast except Breath of Gorkamorka. I killed some stuff en most of his shooting was engage, his turn he gun most of Stabbas and Boar, but could not reclaim his lost objective and that was game from there. I concluded that Bonesplitterz has an almost auto win matchup against cities. What is you're experience so far against other matchup? I think Fyreslayer is now okay thanks to Drakfoot, but bonereaper seem pretty bad on paper. What about Slaanesh? Ironjawz is a bad matchup as well, so I figure out what place they will take in the meta.

Yes, no and no.

I've this list that look gimmick, but might actually not that bad: So the goal is to use wrath of gork early to kill important and hard to stuff (grey seer, khemist, fyreslayer hero). Arrowboys can clean glass stuff quickly, and fist of gork is a good answer to horde. An issue is that 6 drop is actually average, and the army is quite dependant on his heroes, however it should go first against current shooting list (skaven and cities) and that is the most important. Ironfist is there to help increase reach of Wrath of gork if needed. Other variant could work as well, but this would be my take for an MSU / wrath of gork list I think. All the cast are very consistent. Ardfist should help in the long game against Slaneesh to answer summoning.

That is quite a statement I'm more moderate. I think Ironjawz favour aggressive play, but you can be aggressive without going all-in. Both Ironjawz and Big Waaagh had good success with defensive style of play. I think Ironsunz have value in a defensive list. For exemple, with big waaagh if you loose your heroes early you'll not be in good shape (as you loose both their buff and WP generation) while Ironsunz will actually protect them in turn 1, plus ironsunz countercharge is a pretty defensive ability. What I actually like with the new Ironjawz is opposite to before you can use controlled agression, as 2 units buffed by warchanter is enough to wreck havoc against most list, and you actually keep force in reserve.

@Malakree I think your CP consumption are skewed by your aggressive play style. I've run a low - CP blootooth with some success. Personnaly I rarely use the +1 to hit except to cancel a -1 to hit. I also usually bet a 20-30 point to get triumph which act as a CP but cheaper and better effect. My priority usually goes as follow: High (use whenever you can): Mighty destroyer and Reroll charge Attacking in hero phase for free when you can is a no brainer, and a failed charge can loose the game. Medium: Battleshock / reroll 1 to save If you loose 3+ pig/brutes or 6+ ardboys it's usually a good idea use IP. RR save 1 on Maw Krusha should also be used if there is a reasonable risk he'll die (I lost to slaneesh because I was greedy on that one). In any case, you'll rarely use those more than twice per game (I think i never used IP more than once personally) The rest are nice to have and i'll use them sporadically if I've extra CP.

I've the same reasoning. Also great green vision will give you mostly the same amount of point, or brutish cunning for free MD use. I think they list that need to farm CP are either Ardfist or super aggresive list that plan to MD all units in turn 1. Otherwise most CP end up used on generic command ability. One group of 6 is good to use as an hammer. Both weapon option are good. Hacka will do sligtly more damage on the charge, and you get 2'' reach. But bottomline there is not a huge difference, damage output say pretty similar.

I think my next try will be a list based around big stabba: something the like:

I would drop him for a Foot Boss, Wurgog and extra body and I'm pretty sure it would be good as well. But Krusha does bring you something (flying and high mobility) and some army just can't deal with him once it start gaining wound. However i would never drop Brutish cunning in a big waaagh. The key to the list is that you get all those nice bonus while keeping access to Migthy Destroyer. Attacking in hero phase and option to double move are just too good to pass.

Played that list yesterday at a local event (24 players) Went 2-1 (Loosing game 2 against Slaneesh with 1-2 minor mistake, a a bit of bad luck). I had a bit of subotimal choice namely the 10 brutes instead of 15 ardboys wich really fit this list better (speed up Waaagh point and need the +2 charge when teleporting) but I was missing some Standart bearer and shield, (and I love the Brutes model ) I went for Metalrippa claw for fear of the 3 Bonereaper in the tournament, wich in retrospective was a mistake. Not that rend 3 is bad, but i would really have wanted Etheral Amulet as it drasticly increase it's survavibility (specially with the 6++) But overall i really like the Big waaagh. I didn't really miss Smash and Bash , as an army wide 6++, +1 to hit / +1 to wound is much better in the end.

-1 to hit is not only good in alpha strike. Most game see combat in round 1. Ironsunz is also more flexible on your trait (you could make a weirnob general). Command ability is also arguably better (especially if you plan to play defensive). Personnaly in my bloodtooth i use a MB on foot for amulet, and use grypgh feather charm on Krusha. Obviously this is all personnal preference, and I would have no issue dropping the Footboss and play quickduff on MK like you do. I've never use the double bataillion too. That would be the main concern with your list is that you're using 320 (counting balewind) pts of non troop I think that's a lot...

Bloodooth is unfortunatly strictly inferior to Ironsunz in my opinion, but it's still not bad. Quickduff amulet is a powerfull artefact, and the extra +1 charge is never bad. You're list is good, so at the end of the day Bloodtooth is not gonna make it bad. It's just Ironsunz would better

Anyone think Cog could still be usefull? 80 pts is expensive, but it's still a powerfull spell. Combine well with Maniak Weirnob reroll cast and/or cast bonus from da big waaagh

So far he never make the cut for me. Iguess he is fine, but with all he good spell we have he would be the fifth character...

I think they assumed that RAW, it work so there was no need to clarify. So it's more about tournament. Once a couple of big tournament have ruled for it it will probably be the norm after.

If you play a single matched play game, they you should be able to used it as both player alternate terrain set up (5 each). In a tournament it's another story, as you're at the mercy of TO. Terrain are usually on the table before the game. Unless there's already a realmgate by chance, or TO allow you to swap a terrain, then it won't work.

That was my question

I don't see why they would become more a target for range, bar shield they are the same wound per pts than ardboys. They also do more damage. I mean, I love drummer, but isn't the point of an hammer doing damage? You can also fish for the embeded +1 to hit and save a CP here.

Go on his blog and click on first article.

Actually, I've started to look at this from another perspective. Pre-battletome, Brutes were better in small squad because you would get more brutes boss with Smasha and brutes boss did almost 50% of the whole unit's damage by itself. However it's not the case anymore. I think taking Brutes in squad of 10+ is actually more efficient: 1. 10 brutes with warchanter buff and +1 to hit do roughly the same damage as Gruntas, and easier to engage than 15 ardboys (smaller footprint and hacka 2'' reach). 2. With 10 brutes you actually mitigate bravery better than with 5. If you loose 1-2 brutes, you can probably gamble and loose 2 more at worse, keeping a 6-strong squad. If you loose 3 (9 damage) or more, you probably want to spend a CP for IP. This is where a squad of 15 ardboys fare a bit better, cause at 4-5 dead you probably won't spend a CP, you'll start considering more at 6 dead and up + (12 damage) 3. Better to use MD on 10 brutes than on 5. So my thinking is that 5 brutes is not enough to be a good hammer, and 140 pts is a lot to leave on a far objective or to screen, so I'd rather have 5 ardboys to fill this role. However 10 brutes is a better hammer than 15 ardboys (for similar cost) and you'll likely use IP once per game on those kind of squad, so bravery matter less. For now I was looking more at configuration of the like in ironfist: 10 ardboys, 10 ardboys, 5 brutes, 5 brutes, 6 pig, but I think the right configuration would be more like 10 ardboys, 5 ardboys, 5 ardboys, 10 brutes, 6 pig.

If you're not interesded in competitive, then any choice is justifiable Nonetheless, if you want to improve the list, I suggest swapping battlemage on griffon for a Luminark. Better spell, dispel bonus, a MW shoot. With 50 greatsword you already have a lot of melee power, but greatsword die quickly, a 6++ save is not to be neglected (especially considering end of combat phase fighting)

super cool @Gobsmakka did you do other simulation?

Weird'un would be totally justifiable as well, really depend on your play style/meta. Personnally I really like the fact that fast'un allow a first turn jump over a screen. The morboys are only 12 pts per model, and have a decent attack profile. Ardboys come at 18 pts per model. I plan to use them as either a cheap screen or objective holder. I'm also considering swapping a WC for a Weirnob + hand of gork , but that would hurt my Waaagh point building ,so dunno