PlasticCraic
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Posts posted by PlasticCraic
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Perhaps worth a mention is that in Icebone you can take a generic CT, and the 8" pregame move might get you in range to double tap with Kunnin Rukk (rather than needing to use it to move, and then shoot once).
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Both good points!
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2 hours ago, Icetea said:
really appreciate your response!
Always happy to help a fellow Megaboss!
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In Big Waaagh I personally lean towards Option 1 (with Brutish Cunning as the CT).
The reasons you might go with Option 2 are:
- Access to Rend -2 and Mortal Wounds (essential if you are regularly facing elite armour saves)
- A fast Hero to get up the board (Gore Gruntas are not as fast as the Maw Krusha, and may well not be in range of a Hero to reroll charges)
- With a defensive artefact, Weird Un and Fixing Beat, a Hero that might stick around until Turn 2 or 3 against Hero sniping armies like KO
Those are the reasons that spring to mind. Overall I guess I've voted with my feet because I run Option 1 myself, but it's not quite strictly better, even if it is probably better overall.
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@Shuratt yup, that's it
You could always spend a CP to reroll 1s to hit (generic Command Ability), but nothing more that I'm aware of.
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6 hours ago, Sleboda said:
I'm happy, anyway.
Well done on taking the plunge! They are absolutely smashing it, and it just keeps going.
I eyed the shares up myself a couple of years back, but was too lazy to deal with the tax on foreign shares...more fool me, hey!
Don't feel too bad for me though, I invested the money wisely. Bought a Gitmob army instead.
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3 hours ago, Nizrah said:
But rules from morathi book are a joke lmao. Liberators even with 2+ rr1 are useless.
It doesn't really matter how good or bad you think the Liberator build is, the point is that you said Stormcast die easier than Cities. That's just not correct.
9 hours ago, Nizrah said:they make sce cheaper and cheaper in terms of points because they knew they sucks. But this didin't help
That's the thing though, it did help. Stormcast have repeatedly proven themselves capable of achieving podiums and even winning events, specifically thanks to the points reductions they got. They've got an event winning army. It helped.
4 hours ago, Eternalis said:Of course but what about the melee SCE?
I mean ok, they may win tournament with one list, but their battletome has about 60 warscrolls. This list use 5 of them...If Gloomspite's WD rules prove have a build that takes out multiple podiums and event wins, remind me to come back on here and say that it doesn't count because I can't make an effective Arachnarok gunline.
Again to reiterate - Stormcast are due a new book. But let's not overplay our hand here.
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3 hours ago, Nizrah said:
He because out BT isn't most obsolete maybe except Sylv in current game... And its not like they make sce cheaper and cheaper in terms of points because they knew they sucks. But this didin't help and only make you lost a theme of army of demigods and make it into theme of guys who are less durable than CoS dude in pijama and hit like a wet nuddle.
Couldn't disagree more. Gloomspite and Nighthaunt for example would swap places in a heartbeat.
The points drops allowed you to fit the one-drop shooting Battalion, which is a seriously competitive list (one more than some armies have), and I would expect that is behind most of the podiums and tournament wins SCE have been picking up:
If you think they are less durable than COS dudes in pajamas you might want to take a look at the Broken Realms rules, which can reliably have your Liberators saving on 2s rerolling 1s:
https://www.goonhammer.com/broken-realms-morathi-review/#Stormcast_Eternals
They are due a new book, no doubt. But let's not be silly.
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Great topic @Neverchosen!
What I'd love is:
- Human worshippers of Gork that dwell in the savage lands, and paint themselves with green warpaint, as written about by Phil Kelly in White Dwarf.
- Braggoth! The biggest, baddest Frostlord, who's been around since ancient times and had his own fan-favourite Battalion in the original BCR book.
The former I acknowledge won't happen (although there's nothing except the unbearably awful Marauders kit stopping me from doing it as a hobby thing).
The latter I'm holding out hope for as part of the Destruction book in Broken Realms - especially since a big part of his fluff is that he is willing and able to join Gordrakk's Waaagh.
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@Lord Krungharr are you sure it was Goonhammer? I published this one a while back where I got the Rogue Idol up to 180" movement (and that wasn't even the fastest unit in the piece):
https://plasticcraic.blog/2019/12/31/have-you-ever-went-fast/
I'm a big Goonhammer fan but I don't recall seeing anything similar on their site, would appreciate a link if I've missed it.
On 1/9/2021 at 6:26 AM, Lord Krungharr said:don't see how they're not top tier.
I think what puts them a notch below top tier (imo) is their reliance on vulnerable support characters, in a meta that can surgically remove support characters. They don't have the nonsense of big high-wound buffwagons like the Cauldron of Blood getting Lookout Sir; we're talking about idiots on 6+ saves in a lot of case here. Not much dakka or magic required to lift them off the table. Then your army has no buffs and a chronic battleshock problem.
Tzeentch, KO and Seraphon are currently hoovering up the podiums (where there are actually events taking place), and all three match up well into Warclans. They are keeping Warclans away from top tier in my opinion.
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17 hours ago, RuneBrush said:
Not going to lie I came very close to locking this thread as we're going over old ground again here and feeling a bit moany.
Comparing AoS to 40k, especially during a 40k new edition year is always going to show that AoS has had less releases. The 40k community were having exactly the same discussions during 2018 when 2nd edition AoS came out. It's nothing to do with being neglected at all - the fact we've had any releases during a global pandemic when manufacturing & distribution is well up the spout is remarkable!
Yup, I would actually argue that they've done a great job keeping the motor running given the circumstances. Back when 8th ed 40K dropped we did have an extended time with nothing to speak of (just a few Stormcast heroes here and there); I think it was about 9+ months between Battletomes from memory?
The contrast with this time around is stark. AOS has had loads of new releases: Sons of Behemat, White Dwarf rules to keep things ticking over, Broken Realms and more to come. They're putting juice into the game from all difference angles on a regular basis, despite COVID and 40K 9th ed.
Let's be clear, I'd much rather have seen a new Gloomspite book than Slaanesh - but what they are releasing and prioritizing is really a difference topic. I just don't think it's true to say that AOS has been cut adrift or neglected as a system. I really don't recognise that at all.
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8 hours ago, Squigy_Boy said:
Sorry if this was answered long ago, i just don't understand the jaws of Mork battalions, I feel like the abilities have been put the wrong way around, but I haven't seen an errata fixing this.
(Highlighted in green) the moon-jumper stampede battalion has a rule affecting the squigs bites
and (highlighted in blue) the Moon-Biter squigalanche battalion has a jumping named rule.It feels as though they should be the other way around
Also the rule for crushing gobs a specifically mentions the massive-fang filled gob which is a trait of the loon boss on giant cave squig a unit that cannot be taken in the stampede battalion but can in the squigalanche battalion.
When people play do most just ignore this seemingly obvious mistake and use the rules as written or do most players just agree to swap it around?
In my experience, people just run with RAW and ignore the ridiculous mistake.
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10 hours ago, Yondaime said:
Problem is that playing vs heavy shooting is a coin flip and not fun at all, and the power creep dosnt help at all since the latest releases are all ultra shooting armies (lumineth, soon slaneesh)
And not forgetting that DOK just got a huge boost to their shooting too. I'm honestly a little bit sad that those two combat powerhouses are getting all the dakka too. Makes me wonder if there is any intent to recalibrate from shooting back to combat in the foreseeable future.
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8 hours ago, Enoby said:
I think it's an issue with GW's high damage design philosophy. Personally, I think all damage should be toned down to allow more interaction between players as opposed to rocket tag.
I would agree with this - and I think it has a knock-on effect that is even worse. There is power creep on the defensive side, but only in a handful of cases: Seraphon brought us the first ever 1+ save, and Broken Realms has significantly improved the saves of IDK turtles and Liberators.
Broad damage creep, followed by an attempt at offsetting it with narrow save creep, just creates mismatches and blowouts. To use the Stormcast and Ogors example from above, if the Ogors get into combat they will either wildly overkill Shootcast, or fail to do anything whatsoever to a big block of 30 Liberators that deployed onto an objective with 2+ saves rerolling 1s. And probably not much inbetween.
So for that reason I'd personally agree that most damage should toned down, which would hopefully also unlock the possibility to tone done the (less common) janky saves that are cropping up.
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I play my share of competitive AOS, mostly on top tables, and mainly with combat armies. I love the priority roll.
To offer an alternative perspective to the idea that it only (or mainly) benefits shooting armies, I would hate to lose the opportunity to get a double turn with my Ogors for example. I quite regularly play against chaff 'n' bang armies, where they have devastating shooting perched behind a wall of junk. The on-meta version would be Sentinels sitting being a phalanx, and an off-meta example that is doing well locally is 40 Skryre Acolytes sitting behind 100 Clan rats. There are plenty of other examples, such as Irondrakes.
Without the opportunity to crash through the screen turn one and into the juice turn two, combat armies would be sitting ducks against that playstyle. All you'd be doing is moving from one style of shooting meta (low-drop, teleport and bang) to another style (screen and bang). I don't believe that moving from the former to the latter would be of net benefit to competitive combat armies.
My own preference would be to keep the priority roll, but remove the automatic first turn for outdropping your opponent. I've heard +1 to the army that drops first touted, and I could get on board with that. Making life harder for flowchart armies and getting into a game where you're thinking on your feet would be a great outcome, and a roll off for every priority (including the first) helps to achieve that.
I don't hate the concept of the double turn - 'you go I go' has issues too - but it needs some tweaking to stop it being to easy to wipe with. To the side, personally I prefer unit by unit activation (e.g. player 1 activates their Lord of Change in the hero phase, player 2 activates their Fungoid Cave Shaman, player 1 activates their pink horrors etc until they move onto the next phase and repeat).
Yup. I play a few non-GW systems, and it does work really well for them (Star Wars Legion and Marvel Crisis Protocol spring to mind, but also Bolt Action with its dice bag mechanic).
The new(ish) 40K Apoc also has a really interesting system, where you don't remove units until the damage phase at the end of the turn (so both sides at least get to have a crack), but that is only really helpful and relevant where both armies have a lot of shooting.
Thinking about it. What would peoples thoughts be on a system where turn 1 and 2 the priority is set?
but starting turn three the priority roll sets in.
it could nicely represent that the battle gets more hectic and unpredictable as it goes on.
- Would prevent an early double turn ending the game early as people argue is a problem.- would allow for some late game turns and twists, as others argue is part of the value.
- would also reduce wait time as turn three both armies are usually starting to fade rapidly. And you get two solid turns of play minimum before a double turn could happen.
The priority turn 1 based on drops would have to go. (Which is really the only core rule I have an issue with anyway). Change it to a +1 on the roll off who decides turn order for the first two turns.
In the end I still feel priority roll combined with more rewarding choices through scenarios is more fun. But that’s very much down to what you want from the game i suspect.
I actually really like that concept! If you give it a try, let us know how it goes please?
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Somehow managed to reply to the wrong thread 😬
Apologies
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47 minutes ago, Overread said:
it makes others who are neve going to buy that army start to pause and think "eh my army is now useless, meh" and at best the "might" move to another game or such under the GW umbrella; or they just give up and burn out. For many they aren't buying and selling armies, they buy and invest into their armies and if they see those big chunks of cash "go to waste" then they are more likely to drift out of GW than they are to buy into another force - because that other super-powered force will go just the same way - become depowered and weak compared to the next new hotness.
I'm not sure this assertion stands up in the real world. New books blasting straight onto the podium (before going on to get their wings clipped) are not a new thing, and I'm not seeing any evidence that the player base is declining because of it - quite the opposite in fact.
As much as some people (myself included) might get annoyed by the boom and bust cycle, I just don't see the evidence that most people follow through on their threat to rage quit - or if they do, that they stay away from the game long term. If you've got evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to be persuaded I'm wrong, but it's not what I'm seeing.
My experience is that in practice, people are already too invested in the system through the dollars pumped into models, the hours spent painting and perhaps above all the friendship group they are part of. So even if they get seriously upset, they end up staying, via one of the following methods:
- Threaten to rage quit, but don't, and harbour a simmering resentment towards GW as a company for years to come
- Threaten to rage quit, do it, then come back after a while (for example because their faction gets boosted back up with a new book, or the other game system they sought refuge in dies out / has an insufficient player base to keep them engaged)
- Retreat from competitive play as a way of squaring the circle (they are still playing the game, but check out of keeping pace with the meta, and either play against like-minded people with similar armies, or steel themselves for the underdog challenge and the occasional giant-killing feat)
- Take a conscious break from AOS for a while, and then come back refreshed (something I'm personally doing right now)
1 hour ago, Overread said:And yeah no one is asking for perfect balance, that can honestly only be achieved with identical armies. However what can be done is balancing to avoid huge swings - ensuring that Slaanesh doesn't have insane power with a leader focused depravity list; ensuring Ossiarchs don't get a blanket +1 save to every single model etc... Indeed many of the biggest imbalances in the game are things players spot within hours to days of the codex/battletome going live. These are not subtle elements or slight variations in power; these are big swings that make big difference on the tabletop. That's where many of us would like to see smoother balance. A new army is interesting and should be interesting to buy beyond being overpowered and the "best ever army".
Totally agree with all of this, however. Which makes me wonder if I've misunderstood the second half of your post in some way?
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3 minutes ago, Rors said:
Thanks! That's a really cool tournament run down and a good result for beastclaw.
What matchups would you say is best and worst for your list?
Thanks!
Best: Sons of Behemat, you can make them go first and swamp one part of their army at a time
Worst: wound spam (e.g. Blight Kings), your output overall is only intermediate and not high. If they can alpha bunker and make you fight away from objectives, you'll struggle to get through them
As for the top stuff in the meta (KO, Seraphon, Tzeentch), I've played KO a lot and it matches up OK. You've got a game on your hands. Seraphon and Tzeentch I think you'd struggle against a good player tbh, they are just too good. You'd have a chance if your opponent makes mistakes and / or runs an inefficient list.
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On 12/4/2020 at 8:19 AM, PlasticCraic said:
I ran Ogors at a 2-day event in Canberra last weekend, check it out if you're interested!
https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/12/03/everwinter-tournament-review/
@Rors I linked this on the last page, covering a competitive Eurlbad build that I did well with recently (playing for the win on Table 1, Game 5).
There are a few diverse competitive builds in this book, but something like that list would be what has seen the most consistent success.
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On 12/15/2020 at 12:53 AM, Kyriakin said:
I have never (knowingly) bought a recast myself, but many of those who spent a fortune on expensive genuine Myrworms, Preytons, Skin Wolves, Carmine Dragons, Dreadmaws, Fimir Warriors, Wolf Rats, (etc.) from ForgeWorld are probably regretting supporting the company now.
Speaking as someone who was naive enough to buy loads of legit FW in good faith (including Fimir, Magma Dragon and Dread Maw) - can confirm.
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Thanks @Charly2912! Haha yeah when they Gitmobbed the Dread Maw I wanted to give it a new lease of life. It's on the same base size, and we do like Maws, so it seemed to fit 🙂
He'd probably be more thematic in Underguts, bursting up out of the ground, but I can't let go of that Boulderhead CA!
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Cool list! Yeah I'm thinking of running Bloodgullets too, I can't stop myself having a 12-block of Gluttons though (love those models, they still look amazing in a 12-block!).
I really want the Frostlord as my General so he's up front and centre, charging through screens then piling into the good stuff. But then you obviously hit Battleline problems if you're running loads of Ironguts, which is kinda the point of what you're doing, so that's fair enough.
This is what I've ran in a couple of practice games, really enjoyed it so far. Quite a different direction to where you're going, but I think both look like fun!
SpoilerAllegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Skullshards of Dragaar
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Ribcracker
Battleline
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
Battalions
Eurlbad (140)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
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@Lord Krungharr thanks! Yeah the banners aren't really a thing with small units, I don't think I've ever lost one to Battleshock. They're bravery 8 in combat so they're fine.
The Horn would definitely be nice to have, so I could see an argument for 4+2 instead of 2+2+2, but I generally like having a few disposable units more. Could be worth a try though.
You got a Bloodgullet list ready to go?
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I ran Ogors at a 2-day event in Canberra last weekend, check it out if you're interested!
https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/12/03/everwinter-tournament-review/
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Anti-shooting list
in Destruction
Posted · Edited by PlasticCraic
@mrcamp1990 30x Arrow Boys in Big Waaagh could come in very useful in this matchup. You can cast their buff spells from the backboard (out of shooting range) because they have 24" casting range. So you can set them up aggressively and still keep your Heroes safe.
Most important spell will probably be Hand of Gork to get them in range, so buff the casting on that one.
They force a decent volume of saves with no rend, which should be enough to pop the Aetherwings given that they don't have a save. They are not good in combat, but should force the odd save here and there if you need to charge in and finish off a unit of birds (or if they move into combat with you). It's even worth charging the Longstrikes if you can: Arrow Boys are +2 to charge natively and will kill the odd model on a 4+ save, and force them to shoot into your pile of wounds for a turn or two. Then you can move up your combat units for the killing blow.
You'll need access to Mighty Destroyers (via the Ironfist Batallion or Brutish Cunning CT) to get your hammer units up into threat range on the turn you shoot off the birds.
Within Ogors, have you considered taking Yhetees? They can get up the field quickly (run 15" then pile in 6"), then you can blow up the birds with one unit, leaving the second unit free for its 6" pile in. Winterbite could be worth a try in this case, for the -1 to be hit and the extra movement on Yhetees.
Gorgers are another one to look at: you can start them off the board (= safe from shooting), then they can come on 9" away and hopefully blow up the birds, after which it's game on. They'll be on a 9" charge but they do reroll that natively, you could even invest in Cogs for the matchup (will help you start off far away then get up the board quickly).
Finally, remember that the Longstrikes only get the +6" range in the Shooting phase, not the Hero phase. A lot of people do that wrong. You can deploy 24.1" away and only take Shooting phase damage.