Neil Arthur Hotep

Happy that this forum is back. The people deserve to know that I think the new Skaven look pretty cool. Where else am I going to tell them? On reddit?

I kind of expect Malerion to be the big bad of 4th edition when the theme rolls around to GA Order vs. GA Order.

I think we will probably get art teasers for all the leaked warbands, since we saw Skaven, shadow elves and witch hunters already. But I suspect this will be another "Red Harvest" situation, where they tease mysterious new stuff like it will actually be important when it's really just another new starter set for a spin-off game that doesn't relate to anything substantial.

Just open a new thread, dude.

So far, the new Witch Hunters we got have been in a pretty classic style: I think their general look will stay pretty similar to this. I don't really see them getting super weird with the Order of Azyr. However, giving a Witch Hunter warband cat companions is not really out of the realm of possibility. That's just taking the setting seriously. Plus, you just know that a little kitty cat miniature would be an instant fan favourite. EDIT: If we do get a witch hunter cat companion, I am putting Doralia's spare witch hunter hat on it. You can't stop me.

I suppose if your overall plan is to have your Incarnate in the thick of it with your other units, you would want it to not go wild.

I just saw the rules for one of the battalions in the Ghur book (Incarnate Masters of Ghur). The battalion must take the Incarnate, one Commander and a troop, and can take two additional troops. The Incarnate must be bound to the hero. In exchange, you get one-drop deployment and the Incarnate doesn't go wild unless all units from the battalion are destroyed. I personally don't think it's clear whether having the Incarnate go wild is actually a downside, but it seems really easy to prevent if you care about it.

I think you hit on the three big Cities lists that have been winning tournaments pretty well: Living City Stormcast, Phoenix Temple spam and Irondrakes. If we look at tournament results, we have to probably conclude that those are the best Cities lists. A tier below that, though, I think there are a lot of other options that look pretty viable. At least in casual-competitive play. In no particular order: Har Kuron Morathi, Anvilgard Vitriolic Spray Gunline, Hammerhal Stormcast, Hallowheart Magic Spam... There are probably some strategies that are outclassed, but not bad, too, like Lumineth in Settler's Gain. Same for certain units like Sisters of the Watch and Freeguild Greatswords. There are a lot of unit in Cities, and because they are very similar that just means that a lot of them are outclassed. That goes for most of the monsters, Irondweld, Freeguild, Wanderers, Black Ark Coursairs and Dispossessed stuff.

That would be surprising. They had the new starter on their roadmap and the Underworlds leaker on this site mentioned that we will be getting six new warbands.

Not going to lie, if that is what most Malerion elves will turn out like I'm a little disappointed. They are cool for what they are, but shadow elves could really be a lot more out there than just being Dark Elves 2.0. Still happy that our Skaven friends can look foreward to new models soon!

It's tricky, because if Stormcast allies didn't exist, I don't think that CoS would be absolutely lost against big stuff. CoS has access to some decent monsters, good shooting, elite infantry and mortal wounds. Between all of that, you can probably manage in most cases. It's just that the Stormcast warscrolls only very recently got their update and are very efficient as a result, more so than what CoS can do. The question just becomes, why am I jumping through all these hoops if I could just take a Stormcast unit and smash?

The Bonegrinder Gargant got an update when Sons of Behemat came out, so who knows? I find it equally probable that Forgeworld drops support of AoS altogether in the near future, though.

My mind also went to Sigvald at first, between the leg armour and the model standing on a statue head. I kinda doubt it's a Slaanesh thing, though. That armoured boot design would not be out of place on a Cities model. Or maybe heavily armoured Lumineth? They like to stand on bits of broken masonry.

I want to make it clear that I think all your list choices are really fair. Especially for semi-casual play. The following is just a different perspective, but I don't have a strong conviction that any of those changes would definitely improve the list. Personally, I like having a 2 cast, +1 wizard (or two 1 cast wizards if the Commander gets the tome), because it means a pretty good chance to get off Mystic Shield as well as a situational spell every round. I don't necessarily think the Greywater spells are worth building around, but having the option to cast Metamorphosis, Descending Ash Cloud, Choking Fumes, Comet of Cassadora or Chain Lighting as appropriate is pretty neat. None of those spells are work horses you want every round, but I think many of them have good ceilings if the particular situation they are good in comes up. Worst case, an attempt to cast Descending Ash Cloud for a -1 to hit is a pretty solid floor. Against a 2+ save, the Ordinator adds ~1.5 wounds to the average damage output of 3 cannons (4.38 vs. 5.83 wounds on average). Make of that what you will. I think it's iffy as an answer to big stuff. As a comparison, Doralia ven Denst would add ~2.22 wounds per shooting phase against 2+ if the target is a WIZARD or DAEMON, comes with a 5+ ward, can destroy endless spells and is only 115 points (15 points cheaper). I personally value the 3" move higher because I find that Steam Tanks are not worth their points if they only bring their shooting damage into play. I think they only become interesting if you are also using their high wounds and save (preferably their melee profile and charge mortals, too). So personally, I like them to get into the thick of it quickly if possible. But I think this one is more or less down to preference. Yeah, you're not wrong. If we stick to non-coalition units, at least. Otherwise, you quickly start just slapping a unit of 6 Longstrikes in your list, because it costs the same points as 3 cannons and does about double the damage on average against high saves. But of course, at that point you migth as well replace the Steam Tanks with Fulminators and just go play Stormcast instead.

I like Zephyrite Banner (reroll charges), because it helps make the Tank's movement more consistent. You might not be able to get their double shot turn 1, but Tempest's Eye at least allows them to get into position for a normal shot very easily: 4" move + 1d6" run + 1" Hornblower bonus + 1" Tempest's Eye run bonus + 3" Tempest's Eye turn 1 bonus = 10" to 15" move turn 1. At which point you can give them the run-and-shoot command with one of the Runelords. It's no double shoot, but you get to save the points of having to bring a wizard and Soulscream Bridge at least.

I really want that, too. It would immediately make a lot of units a lot more viable. Like, you could put a foot hero general and his wise council into it to keep them protected. You could transport the slower melee and shooting units up. You could even just slap a Cogsmith in there to help him keep up with and heal other war machines.

The only reason I say that artillery is bad so often is because I want it to be better. I also have an Ironweld-heavy list and want it to actually do work! A few thought on your list: Sadly, double Unleash Hell is banned. You can't get around the once-per-phase command limitation with battalion abilities. Given this, I don't know if the Grand Battery is a very good choice, considering that you could qualify for Command Entourage or Warlord if you skip it. You could pick up an extra artefact that way. You could take Arcane Tome on either the Steam Tank Commander or Hurricanum (in which case, the Commander can take the Steam-Piston Plate Mail). The extra cast on a +1 to cast wizard is pretty nice. The Hurricanum has some good warscroll spells you might occasionally want to cast in addition to Mystic Shield. I don't 100% know if the Lord Ordinator is worth bringing. Having him with the cannons adds about 3 wounds worth of damage per shooting phase, best case. Considering that cannons have +1 to hit on their warscroll if you shoot at units of 5 or more models, he will frequently do nothing. At 130 points, he comes at a pretty steep price. You could get a whole extra shooting unit for that, or upgrade the Freeguild Guard into Handgunners. Or pick up a fast unit like a bunch of Outriders or a Gyrocopter. Other than that, I think the city choice is worth considering. I get the desire to use Greywater because it's the best fit thematically (and you get an extra cannon), but both Tempest's Eye and Living City have good traits, too. Tempest's Eye gives you that turn 1 mobility and defense boost and run-and-shoot command ability, as well as the +1 to wound aura command trait. I find that the added mobility really helps get the Steam Tanks into position early, because they really want to go out there, charge stuff and tank hits. Living City offers ambushing, shooting phase movement and mini-heals (which are nice on 2+ save Steam Tanks), as well as that +1 to saves command trait.

The ol' announcement of an announcement. I think one half of the new starter will be Malerion elves. It would probably make sense if the other half was Tyrion elves, but I am hoping for witch hunters.

I actually really like that this is now an option in KO. Reminds me of the souped up Runefathers you can build in the new Fyreslayers book. Could it be that GW is finally figuring out how to stat combat heroes?

I painted the best terrain piece that nobody remembers GW still sells:

I have been looking at the CoS artillery units pretty closely recently, so I think I can comment. I'll keep it short: To get the Helstorm Rocket Battery to a point where it can potentially snipe heroes and monsters, you need a full 4 of them plus the Cogsmith. And even then they are overpriced to the point that a unit of 6 Stormcast Longstrikes is cheaper and better, even without any synergy from CoS buffs. Weirdly, the Helstorm is arguably still better than the Celestar Ballista, despite how bad it is. The Helblaster Volley Gun is worse point for point than a unit of Handgunners but with a chance to blow itself up and more random damage. You probably want to avoid it unless you absolutely love the model. Good options for long range shooting in Cities are Freeguild Crossbows and Sisters of the Watch. As well as all the good Stormcast shooting units like Longstrikes or Judicators. Also, the Lumineth Starshard Ballista if you are in Settler's Gain.

I believe it's a Path to Glory Ruse. Not confident, though, I don't play Path to Glory.

I wonder where this is going. I just looked through the rumour engines again and none of them jump out to me as possible new Maneaters. I seriously hope we get a plastic, custmizable Maneater kit, though. Especially one with AoS bits, like Kharadron, Stormcast and OBR.

If it actually pans out like that, it will probably become a big point of contention. People are already kind of negative on the Incarnate because it's only available in a terrain bundle (for now). If you can also finagle its supposed downsides into upsides, I suspect that will be viewed less as clever tactical nuance and more as a pay-to-win model with a rules exploit.

I believe that's a Path to Glory thing that allows you to reroll hits with one gun on skyship once per battle.