Neil Arthur Hotep

Nearly doubling your command points as long as that guy is on the field is definitely a good incentive. I wonder if this guy will be an auto-include if you are not bringing Teclis. Lumineth have a lot of good command abilities. Let's not jump the gun and wait for points. If Ellania and Ellathor are just a beatstick hero, even with the sword and once-per-battle mortal wound beam, they will still need to be mobile and well pointed to see play.

I checked that right after the reveals: That banner is from the new Skeleton kit. I personally don't think any kits will be completely removed from playability without a replacement. That's why I don't see the Mortis Engine or Necromancers going away. I could see some stuff that either has a comparable new unit as a replacement or is playable in a different faction go away, though. For example, could see the Varghulf go, for example, now that we have the Vargskyr. I could see Morghasts and the ghost units leave the faction for OBR or Nighthaunt, as well. However, I think having subfactions like Legion of Grief and Grand Host of Nagash that allows you to continue playing those units in special cases seems like a possibility, too.

Good post. I have edited the main post to be more explicit about what we should expect for individual rumoured units. I didn't want to editorialize too much, because I think this thread should also be for speculation, so I don't want to come right out and say "Expect no new sculpts for these guys." The intention was just to call out the fact that we have seen Zombie Dragons and Dire Wolves in the context of Gravelords already, and that there have been comments regarding Dire Wolves. For what it's worth, I think for all the kits shared between new factions new sculpts are possible, but unlikely. Here's why I think so: A kit being shared between two factions in not great. The people at GW know this, and will probably not want to be stuck in a situation where the fact that a kit is shared in this way makes it impossible for them to update it. They will have to do something about those kits sooner or later, and there is not really a reason to think that they can't do it now. Plus, the new Skeleton Warriors sculpt shows that GW is willing to replace even servicable plastic kits in some cases. I could see GW wanting to resolve the Hexwraith/Black Knight situation at this time, especially after revealing the new Wight King on steed. That guy would definitely be more exciting if he was leading a unit of Black Knights with shiney new sculpts. Plus, they might take the opportunity to bring all the Deathrattle in line aesthetically. This might necessitate a new Hexwraith sculpt, as well, or they could go the route of only updating one side of the kit for now and updating Hexwraiths later. That would mean that there are two Black Knights sculpts available in parallel for a while, but that's not the worst state of affairs all things considered. However, I still think the Black Knight kit getting a resculpt is less likely than it just sticking around in it's current form. The Zombie Dragon is even less likely to be replaced in my opinon. The kit definitely holds up well and as a big centerpiece kit with a fairly central role in FEC, it's not clear how GW would go about replacing it. However, if enough of the rest of the range gets replaced, I think even this kit has an outside chance to be redone. Just so that the faction is not weighed down by any legacy models. So, overall: I agree, the smart bet would be that Black Knights and Zombie Dragons just stick around in their current form. The chance they get an update might not be zero, though.

Here's a line from the Faith and Damnation preview to get some speculation going: Does this mean that Nagash and the Morghasts are in the book? How about Arkhan? Will the Battletome be Soulblight Gravelords in general with a Legions of Nagash suballegiance within it that allows you to take extra units like the current Legion of Grief?

I could see that happening. I have seen people speculate that that's what "Broken Realms" refers to: The dissolution of the current Grand Alliances. I could also see the awakening of an ancient Kurnothi (demi-)god pushing the Kurnothi in a more feral direction (if that is what Kragnos turns out to be).

What do you think are the chances that Kurnothi just become a Destruction faction, instead of Order? Without knowing much about Kurnothi fluff, that seems like the way foreward if we want to have our cake and eat it, too.

I have opened a new thread so that we have all the current Gravelords info collected in one place and don't need to spam the strategy thread for the current Soulblight allegiance with our speculation: Link here!

This is a thread to collect all the news and rumour around the upcoming Soulblight Gravelords release. As of the Faith and Damnation preview, Soulblight Gravelords have been confirmed to be a new faction with their own Battletome. They will be the successor of the current Legions of Nagash. Confirmed units: Updated sculpts: Wight King on Steed Skeleton Warriors Deadwalker Zombies Fell Bats Blood Knights Vampire Lord on Foot Dire Wolves New units: The Cursed City Gang Radukar the Beast Kritza the Rat Prince Lady Annika, the Thirsting Blade Lauka Vai, the Mother of Nightmares Vengorian Lord Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos The Crimson Court (Underworlds Warband) Returning units: Black Knights Grave Guard Neferata Manfred Nagash Corpse Cart Vargheists Zombie Dragon kit Unconfirmed units: Mortis Engine kit Necromancer Bat Swarms Wight Kings on Foot (Wight King with Black Axe likely discontinued) Removed units: Arkhan Morghast kit Vampire Lord variants (on Steed, Winged Horror) All Nighthaunt shared units Use this thread for Gravelords news, rumours, speculation, hopes and dreams.

Nothing definitive yet, sadly. We have this piece of info from the Lords of the Mortal Realms preview: Some websites list the novel as releasing in May. If we take "alongside the boxed set" literally, that would mean the game is coming in May, too. But we don't know for sure if we are supposed to take it like that.

I think the more important piece of data is that both BR: Morathi and BR: Teclis released 2 months after being announced. So I would expect BR: Belakor in May or so.

Same, to be honest. Also hopeful that we will get an appropriate context in which to say "Oh, I never drink... wine." I noticed that too! Kind of sad to see the old Warhammer tradition of trumpet skeletons come to an end. But I don't know if we can conclude that Skeletons will lose their 6" charge ability. They could just print that on the warscroll, anyway, or it could be an allegiance ability now. I'd personally like it if the 6" auto charge became the signature ability of Deathrattle. I like that flavour for them: Usually slow and shambling, but will suddenly spring to life and attack when they get close to their enemies. Overall, the loss of command models is kind of sad from a flavour perspective, but not actually a big deal gameplay-wise. The upsides provided by command models may look like a bonus, but they are actually worse than just printing the same ability on the warscroll unconditionally. And you can be sure that if a unit has a +1 bravery banner or +1 to run and charge musician, those traits would just be factored into the base stats if the kit had not command models. I could not make out what is going on in that video before, but that guy on the right sure seems to be holding a Lumineth-sized polearm, doesn't he? Anyway, we know more is coming. There should be a "New Model Monday" today, as well. Let's hope for some more Gravelords action!

If those guys go into any city and have a good bonus, they might actually be all right. The Hurricanum is already close to an auto-include in Cities, and while you don't usuaooy take both, the Luminark is pretty decent, too. If they get a good battalion ability like an extra cast or something I could see this being a good option. However, I expect the battalion to be locked to Settler's Gain or some other Hysh city. So it's probably a moot point.

So Horrek was indeed a Liege Kavalos. I guess we got something right for once. I'm somewhat interested in that double Hurricanum plus Battlemage box. I was looking to pick up one of those and the mage anyway. If the price is good, that might be a nice pick up.

I'm completely with you. My plan is to snag the last few old sculpt skeletons I need to finish my Deathrattle list for cheap after the get replaced. That way I can have all my skeletons have a unified look. I am still super excited to get to work on new sculpts for a different Gravelords subfaction, like Soulblight or Deadwalkers, though.

I don't necessarily disagree, but after the reveal of new sculpts both for super old kits like Fell Bats and fairly serviceable plastic kits like Skeleton Warriors (which I don't think look worse than Black Knights), I am not very confident in my ability to call what will and what won't get new sculpts. Here's the thing with Black Knights and Zombie Dragons: One of the big arguments is that the kits won't be replaced because they also see use in Nighthaunt and FEC. But that will always be the case, and GW will have to replace them eventually, right? Surely they will want to do away with this kind of unhappy situation at some point. I don't think it's impossible that we see both new Black Knights and new Hexwraiths that fit the Nighthaunt aesthetic better than the current ones. Especially after that random Nighthaunt hero reveal a while back.

There was no reason to replace the old skeleton kit either, but here we are.

In my opinion, Black Knights are as sure to be in as you can get without being outright confirmed. The real question is whether or not they will get a new sculpt.

That's basically where I am at, too. At this point, I already know I am getting Cursed City. I already have a full Deathrattle army, but Gravelords look so good that between there will almost certainly be another list in there I can get excited about. Could be Kritza and various creatures of the night. Could be Gorslav and zombies. Could be an elite Soulblight list with Blood Knights. Or just archetypical Castlevania, with a mix of everything. There are just so many strong aesthetics in here. The GW sculptors really outdid themselves and got me interested in a lot of aspects of the army I had no interest in before.

Imagine having that power and choosing a derpy triceratops with wings. Vampire Counts, why don't you take a look over at what Tomb Kings are doing te next time you imagine a monster into existence 😉 Jokes aside, a new abyssal terror would be cool. But I personally think a completely new centerpiece idea would be even more fun. They would have to redesign the abyssal terror a lot, anyway, might as well do something completely fresh.

Hey guys, remember this? That was probably about Kragnos then, right?

I don't get why everyone is doomsaying about Grave Guard and Black Knights right now. First of all, we should appreciate that Gravelords are one of the rarest kinds of updates: The type where lots of old units get resculpts. That's a really, really good sign for the future of the faction. Resculpting old units is less profitable than releasing new ones in the short term (people won't likely replace their 80 skeleton warriors with new sculpts), but it's necessary to keep the faction attractive for new players who don't want to buy 20 year old sculpts. It's a show of faith on the part of GW that people want to keep buying classic undead in AoS. Here are some facts to keep in mind before we ge too worked up: We have not yet seen everything this release has to offer. We know more vampires are coming, the preview page states that much ( "Kritza is not the only vampire..." ) Direwolves are on the cover of the book and GW facebook is all "wait and see wink" . Not only are the derpiest kits getting updates, but passable ones are as well. Bat swarms, fell bats and even rat swarms are getting new sculpts. Units that did not need new sculpts like skeleton warriors are getting new sculpts. Why are we assuming that other units are scrapped instead of assuming they are getting new sculpts, as well? This update looks like the Necron update from 40k: Everything gets brought up to the same, new standard. Black Knights in particular are 100% safe: You don't release a new Wight King on Steed to squat the current Deathrattle cavalry unit afterwards. They even share a kit with Hexwraiths. They are certain to stick around. There are not just updates, but new models as well. Let's not forget that everything in Cursed City will be playable in Gravelords. That includes the Vrykos Bloodborn, the ogre zombies and the Vargskyr. But why would we assume that it ends there? I'd honestly be surprised if we don't see a new centerpiece and more support for the SOULBLIGHT keyword. The winged vampire from Underworlds, for example, seems like a prime suspect for a new unit. As does the vampire duellist lady, honestly. I have been predicting that this update will be a handled similarly to the Hedonites update from the moment the vampire lord leaked. Nothing so far seems to contradict that. After the latest reveals, I personally don't see a future where we end up with a half-updated army without anything new and a bunch of options removed.

Prediction: Faith is 40k and Necromunda stuff: Cawdor, Admech and maybe more Sisters Damnation is AoS and Underworlds: Bonereapers and a few new Soulblight units. Maybe more on BR: Belakor. I expect the preorder announcement for BR: Teclis, as well. I suspect they wanted to release it earlier, but it should be out in March in any case. Hopes and dreams: Faith is an out of left field Order of Azyr/Cities of Sigmar expansion reveal. Soulblight Gravelords are fully revealed. Dual box for the two factions: Vampire vs Vampire Hunters (I predicted this before we knew about Cursed City. I'll look properly prescient if it actually pans out.)

I should have taken care to actually spell it correctly. For the record, it's "cartouche". Unless you mean "soul" 😉

Those rules all seem decent for what they are. The Vampire Hunter has a weapon that hits on 3s, deals at least one mortal wound and has a chance to kill a model outright. Since he's probably a Cities model, he could easily be hitting on 2s and rerolling. The Shyish Mage gets a spell that deals 1d3 mortals and debuffs a units movement (-1") for the rest of the game. He can easily get a few bonuses to cast in Cities as well. Probably a decent General's Adjutant. Not much info on the Gravekeeper, but he has a slightly improved wizard's bonk with his shovel and gets a bodyguard ability similar to the Necromancer. He can apparently summon zombies, as well. How good that will be depends on how Gravelords summoning works. I would assume Legions of Nagash style grave sites and full unit resurrection are unlikely to return. The Vargskyr gets a 3d6" charge and can charge from 18" inches away. Maybe that means he will be a replacement for the Morghast Harbingers, which can do the same. Hopefully he has something extra to make him worth it, though, because nobody runs Morghasts.

An in-depth look at Cleona Zeitengale is up on Warhammer Community: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/18/cleona-zeitengale-foresaw-the-cursed-citys-fall-shame-that-everyone-ignored-her/ Personally, I think she might be my least favourite hero, but her aesthetic is still strong. I'd like if Cities of Sigmar got expanded in this direction or if a new Order of Azyr army built on this look.