Chronos

Any thoughts on Praetors? Seem decent but not sure if they are worth the points.

This makes a lot of sense, definitely worth thinking about for list building, thanks. The thing with the Raptors is I'm not trying to make a dedicated shooting army, so I'm not sure if spending almost 500 points and my holy command is too many points. I know Translocate could probably get nerfed, but it's still probably a pretty worthwhile maneuver in conjunction with the Prime, but I actually don't have any experience with it so who knows. The Fulminators really looks great and will be picking some up, but I should have mentioned I have most of this list already and can soon get some games in with it and then tweak as I go. So right now I'll just try the Rets and see how they do. Still not sure what to do with the shooting, 6 Raptors is a lot of damage, especially shooting twice like you say. It's only 6 models to do up so maybe I'll try a variation with them vs not. Thanks!

Seeing the lists that are doing well with Stormcast, I have really no idea where to start as a new player to the army. I would have thought in Stormkeep it would be beneficial to have big blocks of Redeemers to just hold objectives, but it seems like 5 man units are the go to? I also seem to want to add in so many heroes, many seem so good, I guess that's a good thing. What I'm trying to build towards is something like: Hallowed Knights in Stormkeep(can always change) w/Call for Aid Yndrasta Lord Relictor with the usual kit Lord Castellant w/Arcane Tome Gardus Celestant-Prime That's 1105 points on heroes, might be too much! Then something like: 3x5 Vindictors 5 Retributors 3 Raptors w/Longstrikes Puts me at 1970 and gives me a bit of everything. Two deepstriking/teleporting hammers in the CP and Rets, Yndrasta to keep my battleline and Raptors hopefully healthy, Raps for a bit of shooting, Gardus for a 5+ bubble, and the Castellant to just put out some buffs and with 8 wounds hopefully isn't picked off too fast, although I feel like there are many juicy targets to choose from for the enemy and if I lose one or two then the others are left untouched. My dilemma is do I drop the Prime, Rets, or Raptors and add more battleline, but I just figure the lists I'm seeing all have some heavy hammers and the Prime simply cannot be ignored with the guaranteed charge. Thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!

I think Yhetees are really good because they give you a cheap battleline with a TT general, and also can avoid your army being Unleashed Helled by piling in 6".

Yeah, the game he beat me his Insensate Rage Thirster really put in a lot of work, but he deployed wrong and didn't screen it properly this time so I just charged right in with my FLOSH with the Rune-tokens. I started back into Warhammer/AoS in 2019 so over Covid jumped around a few armies from IJ to Tzeentch to IDK to Fyreslayers and finally settled on Ogors, so at least I've got some idea how other armies work. My FLGS is opening up games during the week so I'm going to be getting in there to play, for sure. I think my strategy to start is just going to be charging first and asking questions later, but I'm worried about an opponent who can screen effectively. I'm prepared to lose a lot, but that's the best way to learn.

So I played a game against my friend's Khorne with that list I had above, and we are both newer to AoS although played wargames and WHFB/40k most of our lives, but aren't by any means great players. His list was basically Bloodthirster Insen. Rage with 2+ hit axe, Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury with Amulet, 2xSlaughterpriests, Skullgrinder, Secrator, 20 Blood warriors, 2x5 Flesh hounds, 5 Wrathmongers, 5 Skullreapers. We played Tectonic Interference, so objective was the far right on my side, he moved up, took all the objectives, but my turn I activated the Rune tokens, got mystic shield off on that FL, and best day ever, moved 15" towards Ins Rage Bloodthirster, , moved the other FLoSH with Molten Entrails towards 20 blood warriors, and Ironguts moved up on the left side of the board and center. Charged his Thirster and killed him with Horns and Spear, put the rest into some Flesh hounds, other FL took out 15 Blood warriors and 4 wounds back, ironguts killed 5 flesh hounds contesting the left beta objective, capturing it getting my Tactic(he also got Agr Expansion his turn). His other Bloodthirster piled in and with him, the Skullcrushers, and flesh hounds did 2 wounds. The tokens are pretty crazy, and with 1+ save, rerolling, wow. He won the roll off and essentially charged my FLoSH who killed the Blood Warriors with his wrath mongers and Skullgrinder in the center(which was the new alpha objective), failed his Blood Boil on him, and I failed my heal on the Token FL. He attacked with the Skullgrinder and I used OOD and saved 4 3+ against him, which would have been 3 damage each, so definitely lucky. That was pretty much game, but then I killed his other Bloodthirster, because Tokens are still active, killed his Skullgrinder, his Wrathmongers left my center FL with 6 wounds left and the Token FL had still only taken 2. So we called it 1.5 turns in. Our last three games have all been over in 1.5 turns, he won the first and I won the last two. I was playing the prior games with FloTT and the Frost Lords but I found I didn't miss him this game. Getting the Rune-Tokens on a Frost Lord is insane, although maybe moreso against melee armies. I really have to get paying against other opponents and armies but it's been difficult with covid. Oh well.

Speaking of Ironguts, does anyone have any thoughts on using Ironguts in a Boulderhead list instead of Mournfang? I feel like unless I'm going for a monster-mash its tough to fit in units of 4 Mournfang, but it's quite easy to fit 3x4 Ironguts. Of course this means you need a butcher or tyrant general, but that's not a huge issue to me, I don't think. What I was thinking is something along the lines of: FLoSH - Brand, Metalcruch FLoSH - Rune-tokens, Frost-hoof or Clatterhorn Butcher(Gen) - Entrails Butcher - Bloodfeast or Ribcracker Firebelly - Billowing Ash 3x4 Ironguts Comes to 1990 points, so I could run three Butchers. This is legal right? I find Mournfang tough to fit in and also don't gain a ton from Boulderhead as it is.

How is this possible? Wouldn't they be hitting on 5+ if it's against units less than 10 models?

Yeah you are definitely correct, I was just trying to give every unit the buffs to see. I think it would be a different story if Thralls had 2" reach. Allopexes are just so good.

I'm still quite new when it comes to IDK and AoS in general, so my experience is limited. It definitely looks like the Thralls can pump out a lot of damage with probably 3 attacks on 2s and 2s. Quick math would put about 27 damage on a 4+ save. If 2 Sharks put all their attacks into a unit including shooting with the King reroll 1s buff, which I'm going to count because they generally get it, it would be around 3 damage from shooting, then about 8 damage from the Ferocious Bites, and 4 damage from the Hooks and Blades for about 15. So definitely in the Thralls favour for 220 vs 240 points. I guess the thing is it's going to be really hard to get so many 32mm bases into combat, and just the utility of the Sharks shooting and smaller footprint makes me lean that way. Plus the 14" move. Another thing is my opponent has to get through 8 wounds at 3+ before they lose damage output. You could compare them to the Ishlaen guard but I find the rolls of those units to be quite different. I'm also probably not quite good enough yet to pull it off and the sharks look pretty great too!

Yeah, fair enough. I guess three sharks for the same points is hard to beat. For me he's been justified so far, and I've considered giving the artifact that allows re-rolls of wound rolls of 1, at least against melee heavy armies just to make sure the rolls that do hit get through. Do you generally keep your Ishlaen in the Turtle's bubble, or tie up enemy units and then counter strike?

Hey, I've kind of settled on a similar list to yours, at least in TTS as I build/paint it. I've only played against my friend's Khorne and OSB and for me the Eidolon has been so valuable. Just getting that +1 to wound on Allopex and Turtle shots and tricks with retreating and charging makes it worth it for me. He also generally has free reign because the Turtle takes up so much attention. My list is basically the same as yours, although last game I used 2x2 Allopex units and want to try 2x3 like yours. Mine would be: King, Lord of Storm and Sea, Armour of Cythai Eidolon of the Storm 3x3 Ishlaen Guard Leviadon 2x3 Allopex I'm kind of back and forth on taking the Battalion, I usually have been (can drop a Shark) but if I were to go first I could pretty easily take out two 5-6 wound heroes or even a big monster before the dust settles. Personally I think the Allopexes are better than the Morsarr Guard and if kept near to the King, they're at bravery 8 so shouldn't be failing Battleshock.

Hey, so I'm trying to come up with more of a friendly Tzeentch list but one that's still competitive, and I would love to hear some ideas and also give my take. Please let me know if you think this is a decent list for friendly games or still skews high-powered: Eternal Conflagration Leaders Kairos Fateweaver Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (General) Changecaster Blue Scribes Changeling Battleline 3 Flamers 6 Flamers 10 Kairic Acolytes 10 Kairic Acolytes Other Exalted Flamer This is 1800 points and allows me some flexibility if I want to add in the Warpflame Host to get AoM on the Blue Scribes for more damage output, or add in some of the often discussed Enlightened/Skyfires, a couple more units of Acolytes for more Fate Points or Endless Spells. I would probably stick to the 'normal' picks for Lore choices, and the strategy would be to pop up a lot of roadblocks of Blue Horrors while picking off important enemy units with spells and flamers. I think it's still a decent army but definitely lacks the bodies and staying power with Pinks, will struggle to get objectives against large enemy units, and has low saves all around. Still a lot of MW output from spells and ranged mobile damage, but with no Pinks and no Changehost, I don't think people could really complain, and possibly no Battalion. Curious this subs thoughts.

Thank you for the replies. Funnily enough I was out buying some models just now to get things going. I did get the Reavers, mainly because I just really like the models so I will probably try and make them work. If not at least I'll enjoy painting with them. I feel like they could surprise some people and maybe pick off a support hero in turn two or soften up a target for the eels. They effectively have a 17" range for the three shots and with a re-roll run... probably going to bump that to 20". Turn two maybe run and shoot and get 3-5 wounds down on something, maybe more if they are low armor. If they get shot, or I lose them then that's less focus on the eels. Just what I figure I'll try, maybe they'll be awful. As for another hero, I could change the core of the list to: 2x3 Morrsarr 1x3 Ishlaen 10 Reavers Then I could either do Volturnos and a Soulscryer for 1000 points, or take a King, Tidecaster, and Lotann also for 1000 points.Or don't take Lotann and take an extra command point. Pretty excited to get going, thanks for the advice.

Hey, I'm considering starting a IDK force soon in order to do something different than my Tzeentch, and they drew my eye based on a few things: I like the speed and ability to pick fights, can start some units in reserve, many of the models have grown on me, and I can have a functional army without hordes to paint and the eels look like they will be great for airbrushing. Although this might be not a great time to start them with the rumours of changes coming, I doubt they would be nerfed into oblivion, and with already p;aying Tzeentch I really don't want to start another top meta army like Seraphon or Lumineth. Anyway, here's what I was thinking for 1000 points, mainly eels: Akhelian King 6x Morrsarr Guard 3x Morrsarr Guard 3x Ishlaen Guard 10 Namarti Reavers That comes in at 1000 points on the dot and only 23 models. What do you guys think as far as it being a good starting point to build from and get to know the army? Thanks for the advice.

This is basically the barebones of what I have, and although I'm not as experienced as most other guys, it seems like it knocks off everything you need to run an Eternal Conflag list, or Hosts Duplicitous list, plus or minus a few other units. The Eternal Conflag 2000 point list I just ran had all those heroes plus Be'Lakor but he's not necessary, 10 pinks, 10 Blues, 3x3 Flamers and the Exalted. I summoned 3 more Flamers. I also ran a Host Duplicitous list with all those Heroes plus Be'Lakor and I proxied a Tzangoor Shaman to go along with 6 Enlightened and 20 Acolytes. You'd probably need a couple more units for that, but with 20 Pinks, 40 Blues and 40 Brims I was able to use those 10 Pinks and still summon 10 Blues 3 separate times so you can work with that. If you run 20 Pinks though you'll definitely need more Blues/Brims if you want to summon Blues. Again I'm no expert but that's about as good as a start as you can get with many auto includes and 2000 points. 1000 points is also a ton of options.

Yeah they Changecaster really seems to be able to punch above his point value. I didn't realize I couldn't give Aura of Mutability to my Blue Scribes! I'll have to tinker with my Eternal Conflag list to fit in a Changecaster. I like your list, and yeah, I need more experience. I got back into Warhammer(AoS) in January so not the best timing. Hopefully with things being relatively good where I am I can get some games in at my FLGS sometime. Yeah, I wish Arcane Suggestion wasn't such a high cast, and getting no helpful buffs/debuffs on mortals in a daemon heavy army is frustrating. Maybe if I pulled off some debuffs with the Changeling and Be'Lakor I could wait on the Enlightened. You guys weren't kidding, I didn't realize they reroll all their attacks! They can be straight up unit killers if only one of six die. I also love the Fatemaster and want to include him, I just find the LoC command ability is too good and I struggle to get CPs. I'm hoping I can get two games in and try both lists today and tomorrow so I'll report back. Thanks again.

Ah you know what, the first list I forgot I wanted to ask for advice regarding what to use that last 260 points on, either Be'Lakor or I could try and make a Gaunt Summoner work. I guess I could go Changehost and work a Changecaster and something else in. I'm not sure. I find Flamers to be pretty underwhelming without being buffed, so that's kind of why I'm leaning against Changehost. My friend will probably be playing the run and charge Ossiarch Legion so he can make up 18" really fast. As for the second list, unless my math is wrong I should be able to do about 12 wounds on average to 4+ save models with a 6+ undead save with the Enlightened, even without the reroll. Like you said I'll try and use them selectively and carefully, but they should make for a great counter punch. I also like to save some fives and sixes for either the Bolt of Change/Pink Fire or save rolls versus the Mortek Crawler. Thanks for the input.

Hey thanks a lot, I was thinking the same thing. The only thing I'm not able to figure out are what BW is? Balewind? Sadly I don't have it. On another note, I'm play 1 or 2 games against my Ossiarch friend, and partly inspired by Gwendar am considering a Hosts Duplicitous as well as my normal Eternal Conflag. If anyone feels like letting me know what they think, that's greatly appreciated. I wanted to use the Sorcerer Lord on Manticore as well, but had to order it for next week. Basic plan is to summon 3 more Flamers turn two, and have 40 shots wounding on 2s to just focus fire and wipe out units so they can't come back. I took Warpflame Host which is probably strange, but I can't fit in the Changehost and I don't think I'm good enough to get the best out of it anyway, and it gives me Aura of Mutability for the Blue Scribes. Inspired by Gwendar. Put out a lot of spell and some debuffs, I have enough to get 10 more Pinks turn two. The Shaman is a bit strange but can buff the Enlightened who can really solve some problems if anything needs to die asap(Arkhan, Kavalos, Crawler, Harvester...). I don't see Skyfires being worth the points. I could replace the Shaman and Changecaster with a Gaunt Summoner on Disk, but I only have 20 Pinks 40 Blues, and 40 Brims... Unless I'm mistaken, Be'lakor can pump out the Darkfire Daemonrift which could put out some nice damage if things get close.

Has anyone ever run Kairos and a Lord of Change? How many heroes do you guys think is too many, or too few in 2000 points?

Do you guys think it's always a given to take a Battalion at 2000 points?

Hello, first post. I wanted to get some advice on playing Tzeentch. I'm still new to AoS, but have my 2000 point force and have played some games with it so far against my friends Bonereapers, and as things open open hopefully against other armies. We played a game last night, the Battle for the Pass scenario 2019, where you play on the table longways. I took a pretty standard Changehost with: Lord of Change(General) - Tzeentch's Firestorm Blue Scribes(Aura of Mutability) - Bolt of Tzeentch Changeling - Fold Reality 2x10 Pinks 1x6 and 2x3 Flamers Exalted Flamer Daemonic Simulacrum My friend took Arkhan(first time playing him), Kavalos, Boneshaper, 1x20 Mortek, 2x10 Mortek, 2x5 Deathriders, Crawler, and a Harvester and used the Legion which allows run and charge. I gave him first turn which may have been a mistake. At 1500 points a couple weeks ago I beat him pretty well on the old rules(Petrafex) using a Gaunt Summoner, but really having the Fatemaster helped, and I thought I would again. This game he turned the tables which gets to my questions: What do you find is the best way to fight against fast armies? In this case his Deathriders had such a huge threat range and playing length wise he took up a lot of the table. We also had a lot of forest terrain which we said didn't hinder movement but did LOS if you weren't in it which really hurt me. I really don't know how terrain works for AoS. What's the best way to use Pinks? They were an amazing tar-pit for me but I'm thinking I didn't get them close enough to objectives initially and spread them out enough. I thought they would do more damage, but I wasn't able to get any buffs really other than Locust and once Puckish Misdirection. Now what about Flamers? They are awesome when supported and I figured I could take Arkhan out in one go from 6 of them, but it never happened. Is 12 to many? Leading to my next question, what's the best way to keep them safe? Screen behind the Pinks and blast away? I feel like I can't move them around to capture objective or have any board presence because they are so fragile. I also wasn't able to use the Changehost ability because it seemed like if I teleported any Flamers, they would stand a very good chance of getting charged when he can run and charge. And what about board presence? I had 35 models on the board versus close to 60 including some big, high wound units. It seemed like his army was everywhere and I was just stuck behind the Horrors. Anyway, I'm not asking to know how to beat my friend or Ossiarch, but I find he did a great job exploiting my weaknesses. I think playing a more standard, horizontal mission would have helped me spread out the armies and use the distance to my advantage, but those Deathriders have a huge range. I also probably gave Arkhan too much respect. He didn't do too much, but neither did my Lord of Change. I also rolled insanely poorly, which happens. Actually, my Destiny Dice were 5-4-4-2222-11. I also had a unit of 3 Flamers do 10 shots and I'm not kidding, hit with one on a 3+. It was bad. Lord of Change missed Infernal Gateway and Tzeentch's Firestorm in the same turn even with +2 to cast. Yikes. Now, I'm rambling a bit, but I've lurked here for a while and I've seen really good discussions, and I appreciate any comments or help. Lastly though, I'm toying with the idea of dropping a unit of 3 Flamers and running 9(3x3), the endless spell, which would free me up enough to get another unit of 10 Pinks, or make a unit of 20. I'm also wondering if it's worth it to run the Fatemaste in this type of list and drop either the Changeling or Blue Scribes, but I really like what both of those bring, and I usually never have more than one command point a turn. Thanks!