NauticalSoup

The marshcrawla is a puzzler. Why is this unit in KB? It's basically a big waaagh unit with that warscroll. There's also really unfortunate critical pieces in the shamans who are too expensive since you need that one warscroll ability and rarely get to utilize their spellcasting because for some reason you can't do them together. KB are probably the only list that regularly brings multiple wizards but casts no spells. Hobgrots... well they've been beaten to death. Not sure why they're in the army to be honest, we could've just had gutrippaz come in fives and they'd do the same job better. These guys need to actually be a part of the army and not pointless pseudo-allies.

The difference is between badly designed rules and inefficient pricing of units, and KB have both in spades. Nearly everything is 'overcosted'. It is also arguably in many cases 'inherently bad' if we use your definition, since they have a lot of crappy rules and design conflicts that just hurt the army's playability and internal cohesion. All I'm pointing out is that there isn't anything that is inherently bad in the sense that it couldn't be very strong competitively - even the worst designed units can be OP if you make them cheap enough.

There is no tangible distinction between overcosted and inherently bad. Gutrippas do nothing well, for example, but if they're cheap enough you'll use them regardless because at a certain price everything is effective. Their only special rule is junk and you'd remove it for a points discount (it's both ineffective AND badly written because it bogs down play for no reason). They have a choice to bring hand weapons that are essentially always a downgrade for no reason. Many other units have similar issues, that they'll never be good unless you price the army to play as a horde of individually ineffective units. This is on top of it being a weak allegiance. And I don't buy the 2.0 book excuse, both BS and KB are sitting next to Ironjawz which are amazing so the idea that 3.0 books are always going to be depowered doesn't hold water even just inside warclans.

Looks ok to me

More units (especially good ones) would only make the ineffective options we have now even less desirable by comparison. It's not a range problem, the army is just kinda bad.

I'd be genuinely curious if they could find a comparable ability that works the other way. Nearly everything in Sigmar is sticky on units, not board features.

Spells worded that way typically are using the 'point' for initial targeting only. If the point were to persist I think it would have to say as much.

Their utility in 5s is inarguable at the current price. 15s are very reliant on buffs, especially the warchanter, to do work. They're okay but as always positioning is a huge hassle and you have to get good at saw-toothing them for it to be worth it imo. I rarely get a chance to do a big 4+ rally, I'd like it more if you could take a truly massive 30 man block.

Yep. Arrowboys are too. As is... well honestly there's a case to be made the entire allegiance needs to be cheaper since they stripped so much out and so few tools work as intended.

Always but savage orcs being what they are, 5 guys is rarely 5 guys for long. To really hit hard and get those buffs I've never found less than 10 maniaks to be sufficient as an actual hammer. For screens, objective play and harassment 5s are king though. I wish I could take regular orruks in 5s that would be incredible.

I've done that before but I've found them to be more annoying to deal with when they're spread out since your opponent ends up overkilling one at a time. I even run my big stabbas as MSU now too, go wide as possible BUT I'm also bringing kragnos as my primary hammer so Mileage may vary

I run everything MSU unless it's getting buffed. Anything that's meant to be pumped up is reinforced, like maniaks, arrowboys in bonegrinz, whatever.

On the other hand it sounds more like your dice jammed than this was a bad charge. Cursory math suggests, without even bothering to math in icebonez mortals or exploding hits, you should have cleaned up that unit with a few wounds to spare. I even assumed you weren't able to fight with everything.

Doesn't seem like it. Pretty much everything is too expensive for what it does except for a couple characters. It's probably fine for casual play.

Heraldor spam seems like a nightmare to play into if the table has a lot of big terrain pieces.

Yep, no idea why they removed it just when it actually meant something

It's not anymore. It was in 2.0 though so that's probably where the confusion is from. It's sort of a weird change tbh, they're like... exactly what you'd expect the totem keyword to be used for.

I wouldn't trust the app's validation implicitly. There's no reason he can't be general since he's not an ally. Also that list is omega cancer and a perfect example of why 1k is a broken format without a bunch of gentleman's agreements about what it's ok to bring.

Yeah always be mindful when buying and building expensive models specifically to play The List since the metagame is a balace-by-whack-a-mole affair. And the VP thing shows that all our best toys are on their radar for nerfing.

It may become worth noting that fulms are better, but now they give up extra vp in a lot of matchups, so uh... I don't know it probably doesn't matter but SCE meta lists are handing over a loooooooooot of extra VP even to their closest matchups now.

If you wanted to insert a handicap mechanic into AoS it sure as hell wouldn't be this, which mostly warps top table results and doesn't actually make it any easier for Gitz to kill a gargant. Every conversation I've had RL about it are people saying they 'hope it doesn't contaminate 40k' or that they might just give up on sigmar for a while and see if it fixes itself. Even if there are some people who don't care or even like this, there are so many that hate it it'll be a net negative for the game. It's the double turn all over, I don't know why Sigmar's design team is so married to poisonous design concepts.

The big dragons are pretty overcosted atm so they're hard to fit into a list. They're also a bit fragile for points. The smaller dragon rider guys are absolutely tearing up the meta and probably in line to get nerfed (again lol)

Same issues with ballistas. The warscroll is too undertuned atm, casual games only, especially with the ordinator ballista ball.

@RuneBrush Fair enough! I was being a bit snide lol, a fairer less tongue-in-cheek way to put the phenomenon it alludes to would be that you wouldn't be a mod for a game that you weren't quite fond of, so mods on here would naturally select for big supporters. Since if one did become disillusioned you'd probably not spend the effort moderating a community for the game.

I don't think laziness is the issue either, I don't even think it's relevant to the discussion. It's just that in my experience that sort of quibbling is usually a signal you're about to be on the receiving end of a bad faith argument.