NauticalSoup

And Palladors aren't the only unit that would warrant consideration with that change. I'd say nearly everything in blocks of 3 and 6 right now is crippled by coherency, and the sheer number of them says to me it should kick in at 7.

Although charging dragons directly into Gotrek seems like doing his work for him

He certainly doesn't appear to have one.

I assume it wasn't a deliberate omission to leave out their 4 Grand Strats and 6 Battle Tactics, the latter of which in particular matter significantly more than most of the content in our book and which I expect to see in every future tome which will drastically affect the effectiveness of our faction outside of casual play. We have tons of junk, and most of it is junk, because SCE is a bloated warscroll saturated faction without interesting mechanics. Edit: Which is fine - SCE can be the basic faction, but Orruk Warclans definitely had a lot more going on and I will die salty they felt it necessary to totally kneecap Bonesplittaz on the eve of their ascendancy.

Fewer people play Sigmar. Like- a lot fewer. That alone should account for the majority of it. If Sigmar were the dominant miniatures wargame in the world I expect it would have similar issues. Edit: I'll add, we do get there eventually, just takes longer. Tzeentch big battalions in 2.0, Archaelon lists at the start of 3.0, Hedonites at their height, FEC- Sigmar can be just as degenerate and obsessive-competitive as 40k

Seeing how much more material is packed into the maggotkin book reminds me how garbage it is to have the first book in an edition cycle. Is it badly edited? Yes. Are maggotkin good? Maybe, maybe not. But just on the sheer number of options they got that neither Warclans or SCE did I'm already feeling so luke warm on the trajectory of 3.0 I may ditch. Also 6 months into an edition cycle and we get the next battletome release, that's pretty... something.

In general Sigmar's meta develops much slower than 40k's.

Sounds like it needs an FAQ.

You know I seem to be the only person who found this trailer bland and forgettable compared to some of the banger cinematics we've had featuring Space Marines in the past. These lumbering goons trundle casually into a square like a spaghetti western and the Nids all just kinda die from a brief peppering of bolter rounds. The 'clash' was especially pathetic. Like, why even get out of the thunderhawk, it could've cleaned them out from that height with its point-defense guns.

I have a knight heraldor still in the blister and it pisses me off just thinking about it

Agreed. I'd also be happy, as an owner of 4, with even a small discount. Their statline is probably fine it's just bonkers they cost 140 a pop when you look at the other stuff swinging in at that pricepoint. Both the Warclans book and the SCE one have, frankly abysmal internal balance. For SCE that isn't exactly a radical change given the garbage fire that was the 2.0 book, but for Warclans it's kind of embarrassing to see an entire arm of the force just dumped on like that when the 2.0 book was so tight. It honestly doesn't give me a lot of hope for 3.0 going forward- either this low standard is what we have to live with for the edition, or even more likely, as ALWAYS happens these books will somehow end up just confused and unfinished next to what comes later because the writers hadn't settled on any coherent design philosophy for the edition by the time they were written. That, and "First Book Disease" motivating GW to nerf all your good units out of the game before anyone else even has a book.

I'd be happy with celestars just being cheap. They don't have to be punishingly good individually, but they need one or the other. The Exorcist has the same problem - boy howdy he's expensive for a single cast wizard whose gimmick does nothing against most armies. His warscroll spell could be worth it, if he didn't cost 50 points over another wizard with negligible added utility. Irritatingly that was a unit I've owned for ages and wanted to see fixed up, but instead he and like half the book lost even the few negligible reasons to ever give them a second look. Right now the big issue is nothing does anything interesting or noteworthy. In a world where we have so many virtually identical, largely interchangable warscrolls, there's absolutely no mechanical reason to touch almost any of them. In nearly every case it's a strict downgrade and nothing else The lack of true incremental options as well (and the removal of many that DID exist) mean 3.0 SCE have this even worse than Nu Space Marines. It's... sad.

I just want to play my 2.0 sacrosanct without feeling bad about... ...literally every single unit in the list? Maybe not the Incantor? The Incantor's a'ight.

Would be nice to see points reductions on the gigantic stack of nearly four chambers of SCE units that are currently comically overpriced, rather than just having the current iteration of The List nerfed into the ground.

lol they're probably about to get nerfed. They're extremely powerful with longstrikes atm thanks to doubleshoot and are in nearly every comp list, so I wouldn't bank on them getting -buffed-

Better, but good? Judicators still shoot better massed for the holy command meme, and the otherwise best troops slot unit is the liberator because it's cheap. Battleline units are generally either tax units (like liberators) which you take because you must, and in that case cheapest is best. Or they're useful on their own in which case you would be seeing them regardless of their battleline status.

I have a full dispossessed list and you're about right with all of it and it looks pretty similar to mine. I've got 30 hammerers, 20 irondrakes, 30 ironbreakers (who are now used as 10 man screens), 10 longbeards for the passive buff and to use as a bodyguard for the general, and some copters, all led by a warden king and two runepriests. Although I do bring 20 irondrakes outflanking in living city they tend not to feel as good as they used to now that the bridge is toast. So many armies now have such obscenely good shooting just leaves me kinda cold on paying 160 for them when they might only get to double shoot one time all game. They also have fairly poor range as far as ranged units go, which combined with being slow and encouraged to stand still makes them an irritatingly static unit. The cogsmith is useless, I converted one into a second runepriest.

It's both deep and shallow at the same time. We have a few categories of units that are all fairly similar and compete directly with different keywords for support pieces. Long list of units, but because so many of them are so similarly and in the same points range while also all being heavily restricted on support, you may end up with very few practical options. It's a similar problem to what SCE has where you have 10 largely interchangeable warscrolls that are all similarly pointed so if the baseline just isn't good you sweep the whole range into the dumpster at once.

Honest I don't think CoS as a faction is on their radar. The overperforming units in the new codexes will get the lion's share of the attention, as always happens, with scattershot adjustments to other stuff. I'm kinda resigned to the state of CoS as-is so my main hope is stuff I want to borrow from Stormcast goes down, specifically big dragons.

Truthseekers seem reasonably capable although expensive. I would definitely consider them, although the big issue is (as with most named chars) they're Hammers of Sigmar. I'll be pleasantly surprised if GW actually tweaks up some of these other crappy units when they nerf the good ones but I'm not sure how cheap vigilors are going to need to be to be worth taking. Probably cheap enough for them to be too good? They have the classic problem all hybrid units have where you're better off being specialized so they're typically good only if they outperform the specialists AND happen to have extra utility on top.

I'm legitimately anticipating the Knight-Judicator and Wurrgog spam lists will get rule of 3 rammed into Sigmar.

I mean that's the issue with SCE books iddnit? Nothing does anything (now even less than before, how many leaders lost the only ability justifying their existence?) so you just take the best-on-paper warscrolls in each category which results in the same list over and over. Even if/when GW nerfs longstrikes, fulminators and knight-judicators the lists will just shift to the next set of best-on-paper warscrolls and be similarly uniform. The only thing that could possibly change that would be such a dramatic re-pointing of the book that it was no longer possible to pick out the best units at a glance- and given the (lack of) internal balance it has right now I think it unlikely.

In tempest's eye you used to jump your whole army with irondrakes using the bridge which isn't possible anymore, so they may never get a good doubleshoot off outside of living city unless you catapult them all alone into range which is obviously pretty risky. They're also very expensive. Runelords are super duper good support heroes though, if you have enough dispossessed for them to buff. I'm not sure how useful unsupported Hearthguard shooting is on paper - I suppose against a monster it's reasonably high? I would probably rather use a Kharadron boat and/or thunderers if I wanted mobile shooting. Between the CoS and KO ranges I can't really see dipping outside your coalition for shooting units in Tempest's Eye.

Does this really qualify as a meaningful decision? All it tests is your unit evaluation knowledge and possibly your mathhammering. Pick out the chief threat the longstrikes are able to remove. Remove it. This might seem novel in the context of AoS (I'm not sure it is given longstrikes were used essentially the same way last edition) but having played 40k for 20 years with plenty of one-use alpha strike shooting units & equipment I can assure you it really, really isn't.

I think building cities for shooting right now is a bit of a trap, and Tempest's Eye encourages you to build into it. Irondrakes in tempest were pretty reliant on telebombing your whole army with the bridge, sisters and handgunners both got nerfed (and sisters are very expensive atm). Not sure if pistolier/outrider builds are still functional but they lost max unit size and new coherency is particularly punishing for cavalry units without reach weapons.