woolf

yep

the 6" pile in that effectively becomes retreat & charge, strike first and run & charge is definitely the issue imo. sure MW on 6s is a bit weird maybe but ultimately question is just if they deal 2 much dmg or not.. maybe, maybe not, probably when buffed but not really out of the box.. imo MW is quite needed as long as 2+ and/or rerolling save exists, in particular for units that can heal/revive. Swapping MW mechanic for very high rend is fine but basically the same anyways in most cases (although playing eg IJ into NH is not great for this reason). I guess we r all a bit biased to our personal preferences though and for me it's way worse to: 1. face unpenetrable super anvils (in particular if they also deal a lot of dmg) as then the game becomes trying to avoid these units which doesn't feel like wargaming at all (eg last version of archaon case in point) vs 2. play "rocket tag" which is basically a trading game, but at least there are things to do and any unit is killable with the right counter

I would assume that their cross selling strategy to monetise the existing player base is to get people to start new armies, the fairly rapidly changing rules help to fuel that, and also that they don't tend to expand existing armies much but rather release new. hence these boxes I would guess is part of that as they open new armies for people and this would likely mean you can only play them as mercenaries for a limited time (maybe until nxt edition) as ppl have suggested here. Also the fact that these are not unique models but rather existing ones would reduce the feelbad of removing the rules (at least in GW mind I think) as people can still use them "just start a new army, u r already 25% there" still quite happy though to be able to use KB in ironjawz without going big waagh even if its a short window

look at that, they made a model for "um actually.." warhammer weekly will have a field day 😂

small batches is 100% the way. main thing imo is to reduce "start-up" barrier. I live in an apartment so don't have space for a hobby room but did get a small cupboard and wetpallet so I can paint even for just 15-30 min when there is time without basically any set-up. and if not already have it, get an airbrush and use it as much as u possibly can it saves hours

good point and I at least would be 100% in favour of giving them some other allegience ability in addition, something with traps, ambush, trickery etc. then move the MW to wound while compensating with some rend so they still don't completely bounce off anything with a good save..

fully agree, that's way more elegant

at some point yes.. and also annoying if they later move to fix the scroll and move points up since at that point real money and time invested becomes wasted... however as things stand now, stabbas at 125 have basically just a superior scroll imo (working -1 hit, and the 9" objective grab thats a bit game breaking..) same wound count, move and save, worse bravery tbf and a bit worse dmg output but its not like gutrippaz do any real dmg anyways.. max of 0 and 0 is still 0 😅 at least stabbas fill a clear role and no one will be sad to use them to fill a battleline slot..

I suppose the competitive choice for us is to simply play all Gitz 😆 but yeah agree with u guys. Quite happy the troggs are even a bit stronger now as I built a bit of a thematic force with a couple of breaka boss, marshcrawla and some trogg allies. not exactly the most competitive but quite fun hobby project!

thx yes these are great! btw what r ppls thoughts on new GHB? anyone got any games in? gutrippaz lifting heavy now? 😂

haha 100% with u again, just had same conversation with someone else 🤣 thinking either to build from rockguts or just look for something 3d printed, should be plenty of options for trolls..

yeah agree, had the same thought about fellwaters

guys u think our troggoths will get same update on regen as Gits?

just me or does the BoC rules scream Kruleboyz? 😆

this is an interesting comment, made me think maybe first thing they actually designed was the SCE part, then started working on the "antagonist force", had to give them something to get through the new even tankier SCE --> VEW --> locked us in as u said. And completely missing to provide the tools needed to figth other armies (and let's be honest, if u r only geared to beat a mixed/balanced stormcast force, as favoured by GW playtesters, in this game there will be some very obvious holes in your toolkit). Since SCE are always there as the first force and have a very specific style of tanky, slow, elite, relative low dmg (obv outside fulminators/ longstrike/ dragon), maybe that is the origin of the "first book in edition curse" mentioned by someone? it's simply not what u want to be balanced against...

yeah and most factions seems to have got similar drops in points so relative balance probably wont change much from the point update. new season rules will impact ofc and there armies like NH, IJ, Khorne seems like the obvious winners since no shooting of their own and great small support heroes

This post is spot on imo, can only second.. cheers

yeah that would be cool.. im assuming they will just be like all other ligth cav in the general though; fast, good for screening and some cheeky objective grabbing, no real punch though. regardless i dont like spiders (too creepy) so quite happy that this option will become available as the models look really cool

new wolfriders might be good as ally option (and also other pieces of Gits if they get some glow up as well..)

just me or should new gnoblar ability have been Kruleboyz allegience or smth? even flavour text is rigth in our alley...

fun as may be, I don't think u can bind the incarnate to a unique hero I'm afraid

i think most of us are pretty aligned, I don't need the faction to be super strong (only playing casual anyways), but Dirty tricks and shaman I would like fixed just so you have more "play". Competitively Gutrippaz I think is main problem holding them down, not sure how fixable they are in BH meta but regardless they are way overcosted as is...

what I'm personally a little bit disappointed in is actually what I think was a somewhat missed opportunity to have them lean heavier into the magic, on basis that "everyone" is a wizard (or whatever that tagline was), and the whole team is lead by the greatest wizard ever, I would expect them to use magic as a main source of dmg, even wardens perhaps having more magic dmg output than combat output. for me that would be the route of creating a nighthaunt/nurgle success in terms of being on theme for this army. could also be an interesting design space given how the phase order works. Absolutely zero idea how it would be balanced etc though

Mental load I would agree, but then again some armies should be more complex imo to cater for players who wants that, and moving abilities to warscrolls makes it way easier for an opponent who doesnt own the book as you can just look up what they do. Re NPE, they killed off the foxes, the sentinels ignoring LOS, Lambent light, Cathallar battleshock shift and they moved eclipse to CV 9... So I honestly struggle to see how this book is now "more NPE" than a lot of other armies in this game, to keep pushing that line of argument seems more out of legacy than forward looking Then they buffed the stoneguard and the bladelords which imo was great moves. Wind temple I think is in quite a weird spot now but maybe there is some use for them Sure Teclis can autocast but I dont see him being worse than Morathi/Nagash/Kroak etc in terms of what he can do and he is still fragile and expensive... without the Sentinels block to deal out damage Im not sure how well Teclis builds are going to work. Maybe we will see him with a bunch of melee units which could be a nice mix up from the old sentinel build (and that was tbh quite uninteractive and easy to see why people had an issue with)

I think it went up to cast value 9, so basically confined to Teclis or using the 1/battle contemplate