Ineffectual Clawlord

There are two arguments to be made here. First, the Warpcog Convocation does provide options as it requires a 'Warlock Engineer or Warlock Bombardier'. Therefore, if GW wanted to give the option to also provide a Clawlord on Brood Horror (CLoB), they would have specifically given the option. The counterargument lies in the fact that for the abilities the keyword is used consistently, with the exception of the Fleshmeld Menagerie. There the Master Moulder is referenced not as a keyword, so it is required specifically as a unit. Would the Claw-Horde require a Clawlord and not allow a CLoB it would not use the keyword. From this systematic interpretation i believe the case to be ambiguous, but in favor of sticking with the Organisation-box, and therefore not allowing the CLoB. A teleological approach would lead us to the question as to why it should be forbidden. The goal is clearly to have a battalion with a CL that can use the gnash-gnaw command ability, which the CLoB can use. Even if we stick with the strict principle that only the units (not keywords) in the organisation tab are to be used, there is a case to be made of an implicit addition of the CLoB to it. EDIT: To further add to this: the Monstrum Arcanum calls the unit 'Skaven Clawlord' (title) 'on Brood Horror' (sub-header). To quote the core rules page 15: ' If an entry is the title of a unit, any unit with that title can be used (you can ignore sub-headers under the title unless they are included in the entry for the unit).' The fact that Forge World calls this a Skaven Clawlord instead of a Clawlord is part of their rather unique and seldomly adapted naming convention and only makes sense in a multi-faction book like this. I don't believe that this can be held against anybody using a CLoB as a Clawlord.

He has the CLAWLORD keyword, so yes, you can include him in the batallion. One or two full units of Plague Monks are the only real common denominator among competitive builds aside from Clanrats and battleshock-immunity options (Screaming Bell, Warpseer). Everything else depends on which direction you want to move into.

I argued in this blog post that you can easily decide not to use Bale-chimes and still retain one of the most cost-efficient units of our roster. In most scenarios you lose ~8% damage against 4+ but only have to separate the 2-damage rolls. Particularly in my lists that are based on horde/magic and I run two units with Foetid Blades, I can't imagine going back to four piles. I love how they thematically fit my idea of a sea of fanatical rats surrounding bells. We'll see how or if GW tries to handle the matter in the Winter FAQ, but particularly given recent releases of elite-infantry, there is no reason Stormvermin should remain at 450 points. With the notable exception of Death Frenzy there is nothing in the Skaven army that vastly increases their power level and would make it essential they are overcosted.

Crawlers target unmodified bravery. Which leads to rather strange results at times, e.g. Giant Rats with their base bravery of 3 would lose 2/3 of their unit despite (if we assume a Moulder hero within range) having a bravery against battleshock tests of 12 as long as they remain over 30. The bravery system is a bit of a mess. You'll have a hard time not getting value out of Crawlers against Skaven. Assuming 4 attacks with 2+/3+ that's 2.2 attacks hitting before armour save. We'll see how it plays out and how popular the army becomes.

Blade of Symmetry (+1 damage) is better than Ghyrstrike (+1 to hit and wound) as long as the Deceiver hasn't suffered 3 or more wounds or as long as you re-roll wound rolls via his command ability. All the other weapon options (anraheit's Claw, Blade of Ending) are worse on average. They share the same problem with Sword of Judgement: they don't work if affected by - to hit and we lack options to provide + to hit. That being said, all of them are rather close and it will depend on the result of D3 rolls. The general problem with putting damage artifacts on our heroes is that they don't profit a whole lot when compared with Vigordust Injector (or Rabid Crown for Moulder). Adding 2 - 3 to the damage of a Deceiver just doesn't compare to +1 to hit on Fiends, Monks, Stormvermin... even Clanrats in most situations. @Kimbo Given that the 1k format is usually more casual, maybe don't bring 120+ wounds. However what better opportunity to bring your 160 Clanrats?

Concerning the whole Deceiver vs Warpseer debate, why is this even a question? Both fulfill entirely different roles in an army. You pick a Warpseer if you want a tanky centerpiece that gives battleshock immunity. That's what he does, and he does it well, mind you . The Deceiver is one of the really mobile pieces we have. What you do with him depends on what you need doing. I only mentioned counter-shooting because that's what I've been thinking about lately with regards to players I regularly face who make me adapt my lists that are mainly designed to compete with aggressive melee armies (who dominate tournaments for the most part). The apparent use would of course be to target heroes, him being an assassin and all that. However I believe we have so many options to snipe or use mortal wounds against support heroes. Rather he can do a reliable 5d3 damage against everything, unlike the SoJ Corruptor who can essentially fight nothing but heroes and monsters. To take a current example: Bonereapers defend objectives with 10 Guard, who for most melee attackers prove a daunting task. 3 rend on the Deceiver turns them into a 6+ re-rollable with additional MW from Gravetide or Pendulum. A 6" charge re-rollable equals a 92% chance to succeed, compared to the usual 50-50 with a 9" re-rollable. To make my final point: Deceivers can be invaluable on the scenarios with wonkier mechanics, the orb moving away from you every round for example. He is by no means an auto-include in most lists, but he is by god no off-meta pick or overpriced.

@Kimbo As things stand at the moment Skaven are in the fortunate position to actually have a lot of different lists that are all "viable" in the sense that they can take and have taken major tournaments. There are some archetypes to be sure, but even within them winning lists differ by a couple of hundred points. It comes down to testing and finding something that you enjoy playing! 😊 Thanquol on Boneripper (400) - Lore of Ruin: Warpgale Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220) - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy Arch-Warlock (160) - General - Trait: Verminous Valour - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades 6 x Stormfiends (520) Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60) This is what I would run. Thanquol really needs an impactful endless spell since his own is just so lackluster. Warpfire are the safer option since you don't need him in melee versus a lot of the first-strike-monsters like Gristlegore/Keepers etc. The drawback being that he will be suboptimal in a number of matchups, although shooting a unit of 5 with four Warpfires still averages 10 MW. If you can compensate in the hero-killing department then that is certainly an option. Braziers are a good choice as long as you keep him away from Eels and the aforementioned monsters and you'll be golden.

@Kimbo Viable for "normal competitive"? Sure. Grand tournament competitive? You probably would want something less skewed. A pure shooting list has classic counters like Idoneth, so you would always gamble on not facing them. Given that you ask here I believe you are among the 99% of players who just want a list that performs well and works with their playstyle. 😉 Contrary to gronnelg I believe that it's entirely viable. A list with 12 Jezzails obviously has them as their primary win condition. On average, with MMMWP (which you should use in this case) and Spark you can expect 6 MW and 13 W against 4+. They advantage over 9 Jezzails lies in reliability since you can shoot-kill a Keeper or something comparable with 95% accuracy, whereas with 9 it's a toss up. They also provide a solid answer against other shooting armies since you can outrange or with Gnawholes outposition them. I perceive cannons as an insurance against 3+ ethereals (Mawcrusher, Vampire Lord, Frostlord) and as a support sniper. With 12 Jezzails you want to remove hammers, not waste shots on supporters as damage drops off drastically and you will inevitably lose damage when splitting shots. The Deceiver is a good tech option against potential counters like Mortek Crawlers and generally as a really good tech option against shooting. Personally I would build it with Ghyrstrike to make his output more reliable and pair it with Gravetide (my preference) or Pendulum. Mortal Realm: Ghyran Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220) - General - Trait: Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy Verminlord Deceiver (300) - Artefact: Ghyrstrike Warlock Bombardier (100) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades 12 x Warplock Jezzails (560) Suffocating Gravetide (20) This would be the list I would take keeping the core idea intact, but of course you can reduce the Clanrats back to 20s and take other options. An Archwarlock to get more aoe MW, a Doomwheel, Ratling Guns etc. The major difference to e.g. Shootcast, who have a different commitment to a single unit, is the extra 100 bodies on the field which make lists like this so oppressive on objectives.

Ah, Doom-Flayers. Inexorable proof that not everything is fine in Skavenland. Some warscrolls have a goal but fail to achieve it, like rat swarms. They at the very least know what they want to be when they grow up. A problem fixable with points. Doom-Flayers just don't have a goal. Folk legends and wild-haired prophets speak of times when they roamed across the lands and mutilated man-things. But... for 60 points, on the charge and overloaded (1/3 chance to blow itself up) it's 7 attacks do 2.7 mean damage vs 4+. Even with MMMWP you only reach 4. 4. That's the same damage as 60 points of Clanrats with swords, hardly destroyers of worlds. At the same time you pay 4 times as much per wound on the model. Investing MMMWP on a Ratling Gun (plus a spark to be fair) you get 12.3 mean damage. Three times as much. From range. Sure, you might say. They don't hit hard, can't take a punch and increase my drops since I can't even stack them. But they are fast! They are warpstone-crazed bikers! Well, 2d6 movement .... Maybe cutting down the cost to 30 and giving the option to take them in a unit of 3 so you could buff would fix them, but even then I remain skeptical. This unit needs a rework. I'd love them to have an auto-destruct overload mechanism where they increase their speed to 3d6 but they explode for d3 MW within 3" a the end of combat. This would at the very least make them fun.

I do wish you the best of luck in your tournament! Gnash-gnaw on their filthy bones! May your rats be rabid, your blades foetid and your plagues contagious! However it always pains me to see a Skaven list with less unit diversity than Ironjawz. 😪

When writing mixed lists you will (almost) always get outdropped. Embrace it! Gutter Runners, Ratlings etc. are all good options to get them higher. I even played with the idea of splitting my Jezzails in lists where I don't use MMMWP. Dropping a backline screen, a unit in reserve and two Ratlings means I gave nothing of worth away of how I will position my essential units whereas most opponents with battalions have given away their battle plan. If you have something to do on your first turn then this is a huge advantage since you can adjust whatever plan you have for the scenario. Some ideas: Buffs: we only have Death Frenzy (maybe Shield on a Balewind-Warlock if you can afford to bait with it). If your plan doesn't rely on your Monks you can try to bait them with it and get short range shooters in range. Gnawholes: teleporting Jezzails from one corner to the other (setups are not moves, they retain their re-rolls) is a classic. Same with a Doomwheel teleported on the side so it can potentially pressure a weak home point on turn 2. Skitterleap-Vortex-Gnawhole if of course an option but this works with a whole bunch of spells, Geminids in particular can partially cripple alpha strike lists. Walls: modifying the field with Palisade, Gravetide, Vermintide to screen your screen. To clarify for newer players: endless spells are friendly models so you cannot move across their base (unless flying) and therefore "block" parts of the board. If you fear a double turn T1-T2 then setting up Geminids in the middle of the board so it can hit most of their line while not being in range of your units in case they give it to you. Modify your screens etc. in case you made a mistake during deployment. Hard to give general advice without lists, especially since your options are so scenario dependent. A good start is to practice deploying your list. When already in game try to understand your opponents list and ask them what units do so you can adjust and prepare. Just remember that taking the first double is a gambit on their part. If they do not cripple you with it, from now on you can dictate the next double. Finally, get more Clanrats and practice screening/movement. They work differently than most units in this game as they feel a bit like a logic puzzle. How can i minimize the models that are in combat while getting the most enemy units in combat? Always think about where you can retreat to. Charge phase is just another movement phase. Measure where the closes enemy unit is so you can pile in away from the unit you are in combat with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHfFlVDClJk&t=2527s Dawn Brewer showcases most of these things in this battle report. Maybe this is not entirely pertinent to the question but it feels noteworthy that you should use your blockers as blockers while also improving your map position.

@Aelford Stormvermin profit heavily from the size bonuses, so you want to have a safety net since they will get focused heavily. 40 is the way to go. I love your enthusiasm for Ratlings, but particularly for your second list I'd advise to drop one in addition to the Vermin to get 40 extra Clanrats in. Overseer of Destruction will provide a solid damage increase in both lists. If you want your AW to be tankier, dropping Vigordust for Ignax's Scales is an option. Burning Head is a matter of taste, I rate the other low cost endless spells higher, Suffocating Gravetide in particular. @gronnelg Hard to say what kind of build will be successful in the future. The most common answer seems playing around a 40-man Mortek Guard block in conjunction with lots of support characters as well as a Crawler. For Fiends builds not much adaption will be necessary. The guard re-roll only works in melee, Fiends (or Acolytes) will wipe them without much thought. Jezzail heavy builds have to be afraid of the Crawler because of their base bravery of 4. Slaying half of your unit is ... unpleasant. You can play around this with Gnawhole positioning as well as the fact that they will outdrop you. Depending on where they set up you can just choose the other side, or try to bait the cauldron with Plague Monks (one of the few matchups where they are lackluster). The problem with the Crawler is that trying to whittle it down will make the special shots fare more likely to happen. 9 Jezzails (or 6 SF) can't do it reliably, whereas 12 can. Another option is to use either Gutter Runners (or better: Pistoleers), a Deceiver or a Doom Wheel to pressure it. Other than the Crawler and Petrifex-Guards it's just another death faction. Look at their spell table, kill heroes.

What does a fashionable gentle-rat choose when it wants to kill man-things? The choice is yours, but there are some options that are more efficient than others. Monks (damage per model, vs 4+ armour) Blades Staves Base 0.56 0.51 30+ 0.80 0.84 +Charge 1.20 1.4 + Filth or Rabid 1.60 1.9 Staves are almost always better, especially the more buffs are applied. Getting the charge is crucial. Blades of course also profit by the aforementioned, are however a more stable choice for when things go awry. Due to the re-roll they are consistent even with low model counts. From a practical standpoint it has to be said that running Staves won't make you popular (the only friend you will ever need is the horned rat anyway!) and is quite a chore. Sorting a hundred dice and more into four piles is just not enjoyable gameplay for most people. As long as Blades are a justifiable option I will run them. Clanrats (damage per model, vs 4+ armour) Swords Spears 20 swords equivalent in spears Base 0.13 0.083 31 30+ 0.33 0.22 26 + Gnash Bones 0.44 0.33 27 + Warbringer CA 0.61 0.45 27 The important part is the third column. Imagine you get 20 swords into combat, how many spears would it take to get the same amount of damage? At it's core this tells you, unsurprisingly, that you need a couple more spears. Therein lies the problem. Spears can afford to lose fewer models than Swords. Yes, you could potentially do more fighting in three ranks, but giving the rate Clanrats die you probably won't. In addition spears suffer more from penalties to hit. Going from 4 to 5 is a heavier loss than going from 3 to 4. (On the plus side: blocks with spears look great. ) Why would you even care how much damage Clanrats do? Well, used as 20-rat screening unit you don't. If we assume a points increase for Plague Monks in the future, running two 40-rat blocks with a Clawlord can be a viable alternative in the sense that your anvils do some damage in return and you diversify your win conditions. Stormfiends (per model equipped, vs 4+) damage MMMWP a) Launcher (+ spark) 3 6 Warpfire is just mortal wounds = 1/2 models in range. b) Ratling (10 shots, + spark) 4.4 8.9 Grinderfist 2.2 4.4 c) Doomflayer (+1 to hit) 3.7 5.8 Shocking Gauntlets 3.3 6.3 (if fishing for 6s, re-rolling only fails: 5.3) Both melee variants are pretty much equal, concerning their average damage as well as their reliability (or lack thereof). Despite not regularly seeing them, i believe that a unit of 3 with Warpfire brings a lot to the table. There are few matchups where a Flamethrower will be a complete waste and even then you can use the model as a sacrificial lamb in the way the mainstream ranged unit uses it's melee bro. In particular builds that are already strong against MSU/single target (e.g. double bell with chain warlock and Jezzails) can profit from having an anti-horde option. The only thing that has a hard time justifying itself is the Grinderfist. Failing to arrive 1/3 of the time is critical. As well as the general problem with deepstriking SF this way: Warpfire is out of range, the "normal build" needs to be buffed in order to do work. Unless you run some form of original build that tries to mass deepstrike most of their army, I wouldn't advise building it. Deathmaster (vs 4+ armour) Weeping 1.8 Fighting 1.6 Fighting Claws with: Sword of Judgment 5.3 Jadewand 2.8 Rune Blade 3.1 Clan Eshin units follow the classic fantasy archetype of the assassin, with one exception: they aren't deadly. The Deathmaster follows this philosophy strictly. He has great utility and can really surprise your opponent both by appearing out of nowhere as well as not doing anything once he appeared. Lucky procs of SoJ can of course be good, but sacrificing your artifact slot (you are Skaven, you probably only have one) for not even 4 bonus mortal wounds is just not an amazing option. Vigordust Injector on Fiends, Monks or Vermin can do this far more reliably. Master Moulder (vs 4+ armour) Lash 1.3 Things-Catcher 1.3 A question of aesthetics, typical for clan Moulder. Some 3" fighting shenanigans are always appreciated and can give you that extra bit of damage to tip the tides. It probably won't however. Using enough Moulder units to justify a support hero for them means that you need to put some extra effort in though. Given the length of the book there are surprisingly few choices hidden away and with the exception of Stormfiends none of them fundamentally change anything about the units. I do hope this was helpful to all of you losing sleep over Clanrat equipment!

Good catch, you are absolutely right! Aetherquartz works for every CP spent, skilled manipulator for every usage by a masterclan hero. This changes the math quite a bit, but the general routine is still the same. I never played the build myself but rather saw that some people had success with it and believe it to be a clever mechanic. Since you always need different heroes for Thanquol's CA it require quite a bit of bookkeeping.

@Kimbo Thankfully the Skaven SC is insanely useful for starting an army. This is 1620 pt and the only thing you need are 4 boxes of Clanrats (they will always come in handy). The Bombardier can be converted from pretty much anything as long as you give him something that looks like a rocket, e.g. mine from a Cannon kit Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220) - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220) Warlock Bombardier (100) (or Arch-Warlock or Engineer if you don't want to convert) 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) 20 x Clanrats (120) 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) From here you can just move in any direction really. Remove 1 Cannon and put 6 Stormfiends in and you have a balanced tournament list etc. Really solid foundation.

@States You need supreme manipulator, which gives 5/9 command points (CP) back whenever a masterclan hero uses a command ability (CA). Aetherquartz broosh as your artifact gives you 1/3 CP back whenever a CP is spent. You start with Thanquol's CA, which gives you back 1/3 + 5/9 = 8/9. If you use 1 of the free CA's you get 5/9 back, for 2 CA's 10/9, for 3 15/9. So in total if you use two you earn 1 CP for each time Thanquol uses his CA. Note that you can always use Inspiring Presence since it gives immunity but has no other requirements. A charge doesn't have to be undertaken, so you can just re-roll it whenever a unit is in range. The reason you amass these CP's is to spend them on the Clawlord on Brood Horror. Contrary to the regular Clawlord his CA doesn't have any restriction on how often you can use it on a unit. 😊 I saw a list a couple (30? 40?) pages back from a tournament in the US where a lad did quite well with it. If you build lists that meet all the requirements you notice that you are incredibly stretched for points because you need some heavy point sinks: Thanquol, 2-3 masterclan heroes, CLoBH, probably Stormvermin. Once any of the heroes die, the combo starts to lose effectiveness or in the case of the CLoBH crumbles entirely. Also a turn 1 alpha strike list that boxes you in and forces you to use the CP's for extra attacks instead of spending them on Thanquol also breaks the combo. @Gwendar I don't play CoS but some lists look really fun and tempting, like pistoleer/demigryph cav builds. Bridge synergizes so splendidly with most of the shooters that I believe this will prove the most effective (contrary to the GF artillery builds which just have a very sad damage output by comparison). HH just doesn't seem frightening enough as a pure magic list.

It has a stable core with double bell etc. and can definitely work. I personally wouldn't play Stormvermin in a tournament unless they come down 50 points. The difference to Plague Monks in terms of efficiency is just too great. I wouldn't want to discourage you from trying them yourself though! They are great models, Verminous based builds have a unique kind of flair and are aesthetically pleasing. I'm not sure why you included Burning Head. With 30 points you could also get Palisade or Gravetide and Maelstrom, which provide better utility. Brutal Fury is debatable and usually the go to trait for Warbringers. It might surprise some people if he actually gets to fight, but overall Verminous Valour is just more beneficial if you want to use the Clawlord as a buff piece. Overall Clan Verminous unfortunately isn't all that competitive at the moment. There are some lists like the Thanquol - Clawlord on Brood Horror command point spam with a dozen attacks on your Stormvermin (or Clanrats: if you roll 300 dice you will inevitably do damage). I fear that it would need a rework of the Clawhorde battalion and Stormvermin cost reduction. They are however still way ahead of Moulder and in particular Eshin as a stand alone clan. ----------------------------- Since a lot of new battletomes appeared recently, how do people find our new competitors from a Skaven perspective? Personally all the new destruction books don't change a whole lot in terms of gameplay. If your list could handle an aggressive melee army like Slanesh before, it can do well against Warclans/Mawtribes as well. Time will tell what Cities lists will actually be good since they have so many possible playstyles. The only thing I'm really afraid of are Mortek Crawlers. Taking out Engineers or generally all our support characters as well as decimating things with low bravery. Having half of my Jezzails slain with a 42" threat range is ... annoying. I'm not sure how popular this unit and army will be but it might require some changes to lists (e.g. Palisade, Deceiver).

@Congratz Good question! 1 Fiend vs 4+ AR: Doomflayer (+1 to hit) 3.7 +MMMWP 5.8 Shock gauntlets 3.3 +MMMWP (normal) 5.3 (fishing for 6s) 6.3 Grinderfist 2.2 + MMMWP 4.4 Clubbing Blows (Vigordust + MMMWP) 3.2 Yes, not a whole lot of difference. In particular both options are very unreliable in their output. I love the shock gauntlet mechanics, but use the Doomflayer since it looks absolutely beastly! 😊 As @KingOfSuede said, in the common ranged SF setup you want to assign the wounds to the melee guys and generally stay out of range. Nonetheless you shouldn't be afraid to charge with SF if you can ensure that you strike first, are safe next turn and can shoot freely. Assuming you get 6 SF into combat (2 shock, rest ranged) that's ~25 damage vs 4+ AR. In this situation i like to calculate with ~10 damage, just to be on the safest of sides.

I would love SV to be a viable alternative, however right now I think the difference in effectiveness is just too pronounced. Lowering their cost to 400 and the Clawhorde to 120 (or increasing the area a bit) would certainly help.

Since they show up in most competitive Skaven lists and have a bad reputation: are Plague Monks overpowered? Breaking down the damage (Pair of Foetid Blades, vs 4+ AR, damage per model) with Bale-Chime (without) 100 pt efficiency (without Bale, cost 300) Base 0.56 (0.50 ) 8 (6.7 ) 30+ 0.80 (0.74 ) 9.4 (7.5 ) +Charge 1.20 (1.11 ) 17.2 (14.8 ) + Filth or Rabid 1.60 (1.48 ) 22.9 (19.7 ) Both Prayers 2.14 (1.98 ) 30.6 (26.4 ) Picking Staffs is better if you can get the charge or buff them. However they are very reliant on the charge, annoying because of all their rolling and less reliable due to no inherent rerolls. How does this compare to...? Most mixed lists use them without buffs, since a Plague Furnace means a 200 pt investment. It is a decent combatant, but will get eaten by most dedicated monsters/hammers. Monks are glassy as can be but work in Skaven lists because of Death Frenzy. They are balanced around their need to get the charge and their 20/30+ unit bonuses and having (mostly) no rend. The main issue is not that they themselves are amazing, but that they are annoying. A box full of dice, rerolls, 4 separate piles of dice due to two "on 6 rules", (2 weapon profiles if you use Staffs. The solution can't be to just flat increase points since this just hurts pure Pestilens (who have no other choice) and Nurgle (who need all the love they can get). Rather removing the Bale-chime option lowers damage by ~8% (Foetid Blades vs 4+ AR) and particularly removes two dice piles. 6s on hit should feel like something special. Double damage does this, - 1 rend mostly feels like a waste of time. The good news is that you can do this yourself since it is an optional piece of equipment, the bad news is that instead of a rework of the warscroll there will most likely be another point increase.

Yes, it's what you could fancily call "physical representation of threat". Everybody can see that Stormfiends mean you harm: 3 times as high as an ordinary clanrat, posing like destroyers of worlds etc. I have mine standing in poison puddles and over the bodies of man-things. Ratling guns are just silly little people practicing teamwork. Nothing to see there! Concerning the question of Overseer of Destruction: I don't like it overly much. It's an efficient trait, but I would only pick it if I can't spare MMMWP on a Ratling (e.g. when I run them in conjunction with Fiends or Acolytes). 3 Ratlings with Overseer + Spark + Overload vs. 4+ AR, 7 shots each: 9.3 x 3 = 27.9 2 Ratlings + Spark + Overload vs. 4+ AR, 7 shots + 1 with MMMWP = 2 x 6.2 + 12.4 = 24.8 (3 with Oversser, 1 with MMMWP = 27.9 + 12.4 = 40.3 ) To be effective you really want to use it on 3. Given the rate that these little workers die, you need 4 (rather 5). Personally that's too much investment for the balanced lists that I enjoy playing. I want to try this army once I have some more Ratlings and one more Wheel Arch-Warlock (160) - Trait: Overseer of Destruction - Artefact: Ignax's Scales - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield Warlock Bombardier (100) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Verminlord Warpseer (300) 40 x Clanrats (200) 40 x Clanrats (200) 40 x Clanrats (200) 1 x Ratling Gun (60) 1 x Ratling Gun (60) 1 x Ratling Gun (60) 1 x Ratling Gun (60) 1 x Ratling Gun (60) Doomwheel (160) Doomwheel (160) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Prismatic Palisade (30) Malevolent Maelstrom (10)

Since our tome is quite dauntingly complex and every couple of pages the same questions pop up, I've decided to start a blog where I want to compile information for the glory of the horned one. Skaven Supremacy through rational Analysis 😉 The first part is about our shooting units - because it's the most popular question. I wanted to keep the character of a reference sheet with my opinion, additional information etc. in spoilers. The content is the base damage and how it develops with buffs, as well as how point efficient the units are. I do hope this helps people in deciding which units to pick (hint: Ratling guns !) and saves some time.

I've decided to cut out the math bits, put them into a separate entry and just give the results in order not to dilute the text too much. None of the spoilers are essential, these are just some thoughts for specific units that I tried to keep as general as possible. Summary: Stormfiends and Acolytes are bad investments without buffs, in particular MMMWP + Spark. Jezzails are decent without buffs. Doomwheels are a utility piece. Warpfire Throwers and Cannons have their niche. Give Ratling Guns a chance. What does "100 pt efficiency" mean? "Average damage" of what? "Compensated for overload" ? Warp Lightning Cannon: (180 pt, 24 + 3") avg dam 100 pt efficiency Base 3.5 1.9 +Overloaded 7 3.9 + Arkhspark 8.7 4.8 Notes Jezzails: (140 pt for 3, 30 + 6", vs 4+ AR) avg dam 100 pt efficiency Base 3.2 2.3 + Spark 4 2.9 + re wound 4.8 3.4 Notes Stormfiends: (260 pt for 3, 24 + 6", vs 4+ AR, ranged variant, mid-range of 10.5 shots for ratlings, target for Launchers < 10 models) avg Launcher avg Ratling 100 pt efficiency Base 1.5 2.3 1.5 + Spark 2.3 4.6 2.7 + re hit 3.4 7 4 + re wound 5.1 9.3 5.5 + Vigordust 6 11.1 6.6 Notes Acolytes (60pt for 5, 6 + run + 8", vs 4+ AR, target < 10 models) avg dam 100 pt efficiency Base 2.1 3.5 + Spark 3.1 5.2 + re hit 4.7 7.8 + re wound 7 11.7 + Vigordust 8.3 13.8 Notes Ratling Guns (60pt, 6 + 12", vs 4+ AR, mid range of 7 shots, everything overloaded) avg dam 100 pt efficiency (compensated for overload) Base 3.1 5.2 (4.4) + Spark 6.2 10.3 (8.8) + re hit 9.3 15.5 (13.3) + re wound 12.4 20.7 (17.7) Notes Doomwheel (160pt, 4d6 movement, vs 4+ AR, everything overloaded, mid range of 7 shots) avg dam melee 100 pt efficiency (only ranged) Base 4.1 1.3 2.6 + Spark 6.2 1.3 3.9 + re hit 8.3 1.3 5.2 + re wound 11.9 2.7 7.4 Notes Warpfire (70pt, 6 + 8") base overloaded 100 pt efficiency/ overloaded (compensated) vs 3 1.5 3 2.1 / 3.2 5 2.5 5 3.6 / 5.4 10 5 10 7.2 / 10.8 15 7.5 15 10.7 / 16.1 20 targets 10 20 14.3 / 21.5 Notes

@Chase Leaders Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220) Warlock Bombardier (100) - General - Trait: Deranged Inventor - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Bombardier (100) - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Battleline 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade Units 6 x Stormfiends (520) Total: 1300 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 119 This would be a solid starting block that can still develop into all different directions and can support a lot of the whackier Skryre choices. Whacky meaning that they have random values for attack or movement (e.g. Doomwheel) and are therefore rarely seen in competitive lists. You could add 9 Jezzails and a Cannon in this list for example and use your Fiends as linebackers. Or you add another unit of Fiends, a Soulscream bridge and 2 Doomwheels to go aggressive. This is a list that features the stuff you want the most: Leaders Thanquol on Boneripper (400) - Lore of Ruin: Warpgale Arch-Warlock (160) - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Bombardier (100) - General - Trait: Deranged Inventor - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Battleline 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade Units 6 x Stormfiends (520) War Machines Doomwheel (160) Doomwheel (160) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Warp Lightning Vortex (100) Vermintide (40) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 136 Still a lot you can change there, for example take the Fulminator instead of the Vigordust Injector. Send one of the Wheels through a Warphole and fulminate the other.

I love Jezzails. They do reliable damage with a 36'' threat range. However it is not a whole lot of damage. Unlike Stormfiends where an entire build revolves around them (the Skryre 1drop list from the London GT is essentially 9 Fiends + tax/necessary support), Jezzails don't have the output to win a game by themselves. It is best to consider them a support unit that eliminates certain threats so your other win conditions become more likely. 9 Jezzails against 4+ armour, with spark: 4++/3+ 4.5 MW + 7.5 W = 12 The problem is look out sir, 5++/3+ 5 MW + 4.2 W = 9.2 There are two options to decrease the negative effects: MMMWP 5++/3++ 5 MW + 5 W =10 Vigordust 4++/3+ 4.5 MW + 7.5 W = 12 For 100 points against 4+ armour they average 2.9 damage (base + spark) or 3.4 with MMMWP. In other words, they aren't efficient because range costs a lot in AoS. Jezzails are natural best buddies with our short range shooters like Acolytes or Ratling Guns. Both are amazingly points efficient if you take the buffs into account (Acolytes: 11.7 dam per 100 points, Ratling with MMMWP: 20.7). MMMWP + spark more than triples the damage of acolytes and overlaps nicely with buffing the Jezzails first turn before keeping it ready for the acolytes. If you don't like the unreliability of Ratlings or don't want to convert Acolytes, you can always run 80 Monks like everybody else. Please practice rolling dice efficiently beforehand though.