Thamalys
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Posts posted by Thamalys
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3 hours ago, Spears said:
Allies count as a unit setup on the battlefield as far as I am aware though.
What I am trying to say is that, with respect to a Nighthaunt army, if you have, say, 10 units in total, of which two of them are allies, you can only put 4 units in the Underworld, not 5. That’s because the Core Rules state that “an allied model [...] cannot use or benefit from your army’s allegiance abilities”, and From the Underworld they Come is one of those.
3 hours ago, Lebenski said:lets say you had 8 drops. You could put your first 4 in the Underworld (one at a time), then your last 4 on the battlefield (one at time) and that would be fine because the game only "checks" after deployment is complete?
That’s how I’ve always played it - there’s nothing in the wording of the ability that prevents you to do so. If the ability was meant to enforce alternating units on and off the table, I would think the wording would have been quite different. @Spears is reporting a different experience, though, and I have been wrong before!!
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1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:
That was my understanding as well and how I've played in local one days where I was told I could deploy like that. I could be wrong though.
Same here - in tournaments as well. The wording of From the Underworld They Come says: "You can set up one unit in the underworlds for each unit you set up on the battlefield", while the wording for the Battalions says: "you can set up some or all of the units from a warscroll battalion at the same time rather than setting up each unit individually". None of these constraints prevent you from setting up any number of units within your battallion wherever you like, Underworld included - as long as, of course, you don't brake the 50% rule. Caveat: allies do not count toward that 50% (darn). I had a (very relaxed) discussion once with one opponent who initially intepreted "one unit in the underworlds for each unit you set up on the battlefield" as if you have to set one unit in the battlefield first in order to be allowed to put one in the Underworld. However, they very quickly agreed that was not the case. Starting your deployment with units in the Underworld is one of the few NHs perks (as it leaves the opponent with harderd choices in terms of their deployment). In addition, I have seen the same reasoning being applied for e.g. Stormcast Eternals in multiple occasions...
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16 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
DG states any time you would allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general, roll. On a 2+ you MUST allocate to DG instead
I was thinking about this as well... perhaps the key bit in the Dolorus Guard description is that you "roll a dice before you allocate a wound or a mortal wound to your general", while Deathless Spirits enforces you to "Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or a mortal wound".
So that's how I'd interpret the interaction between the two:
The General (who is within 3" of a unit of 5 Hexwraiths belonging to the Dolorous Guard) rolls his saves, let's say they fail two for a grand total of two wounds. Because of the "before" in the Dolorous Guard description, these two wounds must be alloacated (on a 2+) on the said Hexwraiths. We roll two dice, one of them is a 1, the other on is a 2. One of the wounds cannot be allocated to the Hexwraiths, and thus must be allocated on the General: at that point, Deathless Spirit kicks in. Let's say we roll a 6 (because Nagash is all and all is Nagash), that wound does not reach our general after all. The other wound (the one we have allocated on the Hexwraiths) gets allocated to the Hexwraiths instead: at that point, Deathless Spirits kicks in as well, and we can try to roll for it. Let's say we roll another 6 (because of the undying glory of the Greatest Necromancer), no wound reach our Hexwraiths.
That's my take - happy to be corrected, folks...
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27 minutes ago, Death1942 said:
Blood is still great on your heroes because adding an extra attack to all of the vampire lords weapons is still really potent.
I like your idea of list (big fan of Spirit Hosts, for one thing!), but let's face it, there is no reason to run it as a Legion of Blood list. Yes, +1 attack on all the VLoZD melee weapon is fantastic, but that's it. Your regular vampire lord doesn't want to get into combat with anything serious (5 wounds?! In my experience, it never lives long enough to drink from his chalice!), so quite literally that's it. You're running Legions of Blood for a single VLoZD. And the -1 bravery thing, ok, but other legions have other means to achieve that, and it's not the one thing you can/should rely on.
With two/three VLoZDs and two/three units of Blood Knights, you are getting a lot of +1 attacks for free, which, I believe, is the true strength of this Legion. In my list (and many others, I am sure), everything aside of direwolves can and will delete things when they connect. Which makes the games really interesting, because this is an objective game - killing stuff is positively useful, but potentially not sufficient.
Hence my reasoning about the need for new units with the +1 attack bonus. They don't have to be outrageous like Blood Knights, and they can and should do well in other Legions as well - but they should give us room to come up with more diverse competitive lists that are still "proper" LoB lists.
Very personal reflection, of course. Perhaps I am just not-so-secretely pining for new vampire models after all...
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To me, The Dolorous Guard is the one and only new Battalion to focus on. I might be right or not, but that's a different conversation to be had.
As such, I've tried to compare one of the NHs lists I've played quite a bit - with mixed results but hey, it's hard to get a 5-0 with our beloved Ghosts, as many of you would agree - with a similar lists where I have tried to incorporate the Dolorous Guard. I'm not claiming this is a fair comparison (different lists are hardly comparable whatever they contains, IMHO), and I did change a few bits and bobs here and there... anyway, here we go:
The Emerald Host
The Emerald HostLady Olynder [General], Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls, Gryph-feather Charm, Chill Blade, Shademist
Vampire Lord
Knight of Shrouds (mounted), Balefire Blade
Spirit Torment
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5 x Hexwraiths
5 x Hexwraiths
30 x Grimghast Reapers
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10 x Chainrasp Horde
10 x Bladegheist Revenants
10 x Bladegheist Revenants
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Battallion: The Dolorous Guard.
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2000 pts
vs
The Black Host
The Black HostDreadblade Harrow [General], Gryph-feather Charm, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Lady Olynder, Spectral Tether
Guardian of Souls, Chill Blade, Shademist
Vampire Lord
Knight of Shrouds (mounted)
Spirit Torment
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6 x Spirit Hosts
6 x Spirit Hosts
20 x Grimghast Reapers
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10 x Bladegheist Revenants
10 x Bladegheist Revenants
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Battallion: None.
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1990 pts
As you can see, very similar lists.
The Emerald Host features a very tanky general (Olynder) thanks to the Dolorous guard: said General can also try (for once!) to get in the face of the big bad guys and unleash the MWs rage without being wiped out off the table the next turn. Great. Than we have a blob of Reapers (properly supported by GoS and Vampire Lord) and two units of Revenants, to be deep-striked at will (I tend to drop the two units in different battlerounds, but that obviously depend on the particular game...) and properly supported by a mounted KoS and a Spirit Torment. Add in 10 Chainrasps because screening is everything (in fact, I'd argue we're missing some more in this list). As a whole, I'd say three main sections of the list meant to do three different things. Extra relic, extra command point as well. Not too shabby.
The Black Host is 1990 pts (cheeky Triumph possible!) and features Lady Olynder (not as a general and unsupported by the Dolorous Guard) screened by 6 Spirit Hosts. She can't survive against the big bad guys for long, but she can very well sit on an objective for a long while (let them come, they can still experience the full weight of the MW awesomeness), and Spirit Hosts are much better than Hexwraiths (all those in favour?). This whole section can be kept in the Underworld if needed. Then we have the Dreadblade Harrow as our general, also screened by 6 Sprit Hosts, which thanks to the Ruler of the Spirit Hosts command trait are even harder to remove than those guarding Olynder. AND, they can be moved around at will thanks to the Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summon combo. Note that the Gryph-feather Charm in conjunction with Look out Sir! means that our flimsy general is minus 2 (oh yeah) to hit via shooting. Useful. And, movement shinanigans can win you many games. Next up: blob of Reapers (not 30 as in the Emerald Host, but 20 is still a decent number - some would say, better manoeuvrable...) supported in exactly the same way as in The Emerald Host. Same story for the Revenants and their support characters. FOUR sections in total for this list, then, to be compared with the tree of the Emerald Host. The latter has less drops, sure, but is still very much beatable in that sense by seriously low-drop armies (Skavens, anyone?).
Which one of thw lists is bound to come out on top? I, genuinely can't tell at first glance. The truth (probably) is, when dealing with certain battleplans having a very tanky general (Emerald Host) is absolutely key: Places of Arcane Powers and Relocation Orb spring to mind. In some other cases, being able to shoot across the board real quick implies very high chances of success: Take and Hold and Battle for the Pass are obvious examples. I'm tempted to say that unless your opponent has the chance of covering you in MWs from a very long distance (i.e. you are playing Tzeench), the Black Host offers more tools to deal with whatever battleplan.I want to feel the hype of these new battalions, though, so please do convince me otherwise!
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4 minutes ago, Aaranis said:
giving him a Balefire Blade or such would make him really dangerous, and hard to kill with the Dolorous Guard
Somehow dangerous, I'd say - still -1 Rend only, which is not much against serious opponents. High damage is great - but if can't get in... plus, if he's to be your General, you lose the DH+Spectral Summons combo, which I believe is fair to say is one of the most effective tricks we can leverage.
7 minutes ago, Aaranis said:With support from a KoS the whole list gets better in 12" bubble of him.
That is the actual problem though, right? To take advantage of the Dolorous Guard, you need a unit of Hexwraiths 3" away from your Kos. To leverage Forgotten Scions, you need your punchy unit to be - alas! - wholly within 12" of him. Now you have two options: (1.) desperately trying to juggle the Hexwraiths and said punchy unit, but that is bound to be real tricky, especially on the charge (2.) accept that your Hexwraiths are your punchy unit: the two battalions together give them +2 attacks each (knights and mounts!) for free, which sound phenomenal on paper, and yet we are still hitting/wounding on 4+/5+ with our knights/mounts, so that's close to useless.
One option would be to go all in on the Hexwraiths: 2 units of 20 for a massive war of attrition with an impossibly tanky general at the front. To me, this sounds like a ton of effort for not-so-great a result, though...
Uhm... 2 DHs, one of which is your General, with RotSHs. One mounted KoS with a Balefire blade. 20 Hexwraiths sitting right behind them. 30 Reapers right in front of them, benefitting from the +1 attack for free. Throw in a Vampire Lord for another +1 attack, and 1 GoS... attrition for real... bah, just rumbling. I'll have a proper think later on.
Exciting times ahead!
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My twopence...
The Emerald Host: such a joke that it's not even worth talking about it.
The Forgotten Scions: 1 mounted KoS and a DH is something you might want to take anyway, which is good. 2 DHs? Very rarely - you usually pick one DH to be your general with RotSHs and that's it. So, an investement of not-so-useful 90pts already. +1 for our KoS is good, and paired with a relic (the Balefire Blade comes to mins... the Sword of Judgment is not reliable on a 6+) is even better, but would that combo (assuming that this Malcor can actually take a relic, @Sauriv might be right, if we're talking about a named character, forget it...) turn our KoS into a serious killer? Not even close. Still mediocre, still flimsy. Being able to use his CA for free is great, but let's not forget that the effect of that CA last for one combat phase only. The worst part: 140 points. Potential combo with ShroudGuard, though? One mounted KoS, one on foot, 2 DHs, 2 units of 10 Bladegheists? I don't know, still not sold...
The Dolorous Guard: +1 attack on Hexwraiths means very little, they still suck - hitting on bloody 4+. Passing wounds on 2+ is the real thing here, potentially solving for real one big issue with NHs, that is that our Generals are real flimsy. 120 points? Worth it, but let's not forget that Hexwraiths are pricey (I'd say massively overpriced for what they do: 140 pts for 5, and no regiment discount). My only problem: I hate the Hexwraiths models... time for some conversions, I guess...
In a nutshell: I am happy, as this is new stuff, and it can be used to shake things up a bit. I sure hope it's just a start, though - we need way more to get back in the game.
Lastly: these are NHs Battallions - great. Can we use them in LoG? No news on that front? The Dolorous Guard in LoG would be absolutely phenomenal... having a virtually immortal General in a proper (i.e. Endless Legions) Death army would be so strong...
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35 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
plus the two of them together are such an all-in and obvious strat too.
It has been seen many many times, I do agree.
I suppose it also depend on your list/playstyle, though. If you are going for massive units (three blobs of 40 Rasps and the like...), board control & staying power, than the Reiki+Cogs combo is the last thing you want to waste your points on. With a MSU-style, realtively punchy (this is still NHs after all...) list with multiple opportunities across different battlerounds to leverage our From the Underworld They Come, though, I find said combo to still perform quite well. In addition, not so many players are willing to spend a dispel attempt to get rid of the Cogs (as they usually enjoy the +2 to move and charge themselves!), but the very same players tend to underestimate the fact that only the caster nearby has the opportunity to slow down time and thus get those very precious save re-rolls + extra spell, making Reiki very much more survivable if needed.
Very few things are reliable within the NH universe, but casting the Cogs on a 4+ implies a success rate of 91.66% - as close as reliable as we can get, I daresay... having said that, Reiki+Cogs is not an auto-include for me. Again, there's much we can get for those 250 pts instead... it's all in the list!
10 minutes ago, Aaranis said:I always read the Dreadblade's rule as "If he's within 3" of an enemy at the Start of the Movement Phase" simply to prevent him from teleporting when engaged.
Very important detail: the DH can't do his Phantasmal Discorporation if he's tied up in combat - true, but the unit(S) he calls to him via Spectral Summons can be in combat and still be perfectly eligible to be brought elsewhere. Something I have quickly learned to make my opponent aware of at the very start of the game - huge potential for a goctha moment there if not...
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3 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
Ive stopped taking Reik. Or any casters at all tbh. Spells failing inordinatly everytine I try, been falling back on Torments
But... Reiky is +3, that means casting Cogs on a 4+? It has failed me in very few occasions (mostly because the ****** has to suffer the MW he inflicts on himself to get the 3+, and Deathless Spirits is still there to mock us)...
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11 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:
His teleport also happens at the start of the movement phase and you can always choose the order for everything that happens at the same time. So you can teleport him and then use Spectral Summons
Correct. That's how the DH has been played in tournaments so far as well. Both actions happen at the same time, so you pick the order. Note that Spectral Summons "stacks", in that e.g. fpr 2 CP you can bring along not only your 20 Reapers, but your quite essential GoS as well...
19 minutes ago, shinros said:Do you wonderful ghosts have any recommendations on what units I should grab next? All the warscrolls seem pretty interesting even if they are not the best army.
Some of my favourite...
(1) Spirit Hosts: fantastic screens, very hard to get rid of (especially if using Ruler of the Spirit Hosts), and surprisingly punchy if you have 6-9 of them in one unit. When you manage to roll 6+, MWs hurt everyone, big monsters included. Paired with a DH as a General, they don't suffer from their low mobility, making them a very, very solid choice as Battleline. You'll hate them badly when the time comes to actually put together the models, though - oh, the pain...
(2) (MORE. MANY MORE) Grimghast Reapers: in NHs, I usually go for 20 instead of 30 as keeping them within 12" (essential for many things...) becomes quite hard otherwise. They are now quite costly, but still amazingly good. People fear them as well, which is something you can and should leverage.
(3) Bladegheist Revenants: hard-ish hitters. I have 4 units of 5 (very manoeuvrable), can be used in the Shroudguard Battalion for somed durability in conjunction with a mounted KoS and - essential- a Spirit Torment. When they re-roll hits they can be quite nasty. He's also an absolute joy to paint, I like the model very very much indeed.
(4) Reikenor, you should have already: because the entire point with NH is that ephemeral 9" charge, and because of that you need the Cogs - which in turn require that sweet +3 to cast that only Reiki can provide. It's an investment (170+80=250 pts, I believe?), but a good one in my opinion. Get those Cogs!
(5) Various support characters of your choosing: GoS for Reapers, ST and/or KoS for Blades... a Vampire Lord (flying Horror essential) is, I find, a very good addition. Combine it with a mounted KoS and for 2 CP your 20 Reapers are dishing out some 80 attacks... plus D3 back on three different units within (not wholly within) 12", and he's a caster. Which can heal D6 once/battle and as opposed to a GoS can also kill something (little).
31 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:We could also use more battalions with +1 or maybe even +2 on the charge or full reroll on the charge roll.
That might be even too much? With the Cogs on top you'll get a +4 on the charge... a 5" charge is > 80%...
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19 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
One concern; will they be Nighthaunt Battalions or Legion of Grief?
Dun dun dunnn
That is a very good question... hopefully NH, as I believe it’s fair to say that our beloved faction needs some love in order to be brought close enough to where LoG sits in the competitive scenario.
On the other hand, people have been complaining (and righteously so) about the (absolute? I know there’s an entire thread about this...) lack of Battalions for LoG since they have appeared, so...
Ideally, both - I don’t see a huge problem with any aspect of the Lore that should prevent NH and LoG Battalions not to be taken in one or the other.
Back on the speculation train, I do hope one of these three Battalions would indeed involve SHs... one of my favourite unit within the whole of Death - imagine if they could become even more tanky... or - Nagash forbid! - doing MWs on 5+... I shall entertain these silly dreams until reality hits!
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14 hours ago, Greasygeek said:
So a noob question here as I (almost) never buy WD. But when is it in store?
Around the 3rd weekend (Saturday on the shelf) of the month? I have a subscription, and it usually lands 2-3 weeks in (with substantial fluctuations time-wise). More experienced hobbyists can probably be more precise, though.
6 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:these battalions will have great powercreep and singlehandedgly make Nighthaunt competitive again. The winds of Shyish are whispering it in my ear.
* nods, repeatedly *. Given that both ShroudGuard and ChainGuard are somehow worth taking, my competitive hopes are focused on the Dolorous Guard - it's all in the name!
2 hours ago, Greasygeek said:IF they actially made a battalion including Stalkers that made sense
That would require some strong effort, IMHO...
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1 hour ago, Aaranis said:
Preview from the next WD ! It seems we're getting THREE new Warscroll Batallions ! There's not much detail though, we'll know when it comes out. So, good news everyone, it's not a narrative battleplan
Ooooh, this is excellent news... * happy dance *
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One perhaps trivial reflection on LoB at the moment is that the possibilities for competitive lists are very few indeed. Most of what I have seen and/or play with would include:
- 1 or 2 VLoZD, one of which usually etheral. Artefacts other than the Amulet are very rarely seen - for obvious reasons. 3 VLoZDs is real fun, but you need bodies to win certain battleplans. Neferata doesn't cut it, particularly as she has to be your general. Vhordrai is actually inferior to a VLoZD in Legion of Blood, even when buffed (the CA ability on the VLoZD gets you real close to Vhordrai with his own spell on).
- Dogs as battleline / screens. Skeletons are also failry common, albeit I believe that people are starting to realize that being slow might be a huge issue when everything else in your army moves real fast.
- 5, 10, maybe even 15/20 Blood Knights. This is their Legion after all (+1 attack each is too good to ignore).
- Skeletons to fill up. I go for Reapers, insanely good but costly, but I haven't seem them around much (can't understand why - they won many a game...).
And that's it. Ok, -ish, but you'll have to admit the variations are not many, nor substantials. The bravery bomb is not a competitive option, the one and only battallion available to LoB is awful. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing this army a lot, it's a small list with few things to remember but lots of subtetly required in moving around Blood Knights and the like - and thinking a turn or two ahead. It's great fun, and I love the lore too much to not be happy with it - competitive or not.
I just wish for a few new models with decent warscrolls that might fall under the favoured retainer label, and perhaps some decent battalions (the fact that we can't use Castellans of the Crimson Keep in LoB is so unfair!). Plus, LoB = Blood Knights, let's face it, and I believe that our faith, to be quantified in the endless hours most of us dedicated to convert these models from basically everything under th (Purple) sun, will have to be rewarded at some point.
Meanwhile, I'm reading "The Dominion of Bones", and a few chapters in I'm already thinking: for the undying glory of the Great Necromancer, our beautiful queen Neferata deserves some outrageous, Gotrek-like upgrades, along the lines of a 3+ shrug and a damage 6 weapon, otherwise the lore just doesn't make sense
Let us keep the faith, brothers and sisters - our Martial Fury shall be righteously feared once more soon enough, of that I am hopeful (for no good reason at all, but hey...)!
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20 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:
Agreed. I would absolutely take her if I could use her ability and RotSH
That's the stuff of dreams... albeit the DH's ability to move stuff across the board via the Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summons combo is potentially still stronger than a buffed-up LO... closer, though. Much closer.
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5 hours ago, Sartxac said:
But put in cover 5 blood knights isn't easy. If they charge this turn (the only moment when do damage) they aren't in cover. And in the next batte turns you need the 5 completely inside or above a terrain element. I also think that they are the best LoB unit.
Yes, absolutely - what I meant is that this cover bonus is very useful to counteract shooting (probably the biggest threat our BKs have to face😞 the last thing you want with your BKs is to get charged (+1 saves because to cover is nothing compared to the loss of the D3 damage output), and, once they do make the charge, ideally there's nothing left around them after they're done. Against units with no rend, they're still tough as nails (+ mystic shield they become hilarious...)
5 hours ago, Sartxac said:today VLoZD with ethereal amulet and aura of dark majesty can't do nothing vs other actual monster (as Maw Krusha, bloodthirster of rage, 6 gore grunta, etc) because the damage that he does is poor.
With is own command ability (re-roll all failed hits for 1 CP), our very unreliable VLoZDs become much more reliable. Yes, you can't always one-shot a Maw Krusha (you definitely can, though! ), but with the amulet plus the aura you might very well survive a second turn (healing [chalice, vile transference] helps...), and at that point you often come out on top. Plus, in many realms there are relatively cheap +1 hit spells... and at that point, your VLoZDs can do absolute wonders. I do agree with you that it will always be a a matter of spikey dice rolls with this lad: even when, say, all of your 4 maws attacks make it in, you could inflict either 4 or 24 damage - fluctuations are there and are huge, but buffs can really help him shine against big things. Also, if you just so happen to run two VLoZDs in your army... a double shooting + charge from them = almost everything turns in to gory chunks of bleeding meat (for the greater glory of our beautiful Queen, of course).
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5 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:
I'll try that out once I encounter him again 🤔
What about the Orb of Enchantment?
Once per battle, at the start of the combat phase, you can pick an enemy hero within 3" of the bearer. In that combat phase, that hero may not pile in, attack or use abilities.
The cheesy bit with this one is that - as far as I understand - all Gotrek uber-nasty abilities, including the preposterous 3+ shrug and the max 1 damage suffered, go down the sink when the Orb is activated. At that point, you have a model with 8 wounds and a 4+ rendable save that cannot retaliate against you.
Now: putting the Orb on a meek Spirit Torment, and charging said hero into the Son of Grimnir, swiftly followed by a unit of 10 Bladegheist Revenants (+1 attack on the charge, +1 attack via 1 CP from a mounted KoS), would allow you to nullify Gotrek and pile in (I just tried...) 6 Revenants, which gives you (not even taking into account the surprisingly choppy ST...) a 78.8% chance to get rid of the cheeky dwarf in one go. It's still an investment (you need a ST with the Orb and a mounted KoS wholly within 12" with a CP to spend), but it sounds doable to me?
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On 11/21/2019 at 12:09 AM, Sartxac said:
Neferata is strategic support character. But i think that Arkhan is much better.
In my opinion, none of the Mortarchs would be a good pick for a LoB army general. 11 wounds with a rendable 4+ means they are off the table in one turn against a shooty/MWs-heavy army. Same thing when facing strong or in fact even not-so-strong units in melee.
Conversely, a VLoZD with an ethereal amulet and aura of dark majesty will be way more tricky to remove. Having our general on the table until the very end is key - no Endless legions without!I run Neferata in quite a few occasions. Once I managed a -4 to hit (3 CPs [thanks to a handy piece of Commanding terrain] plus Overwhelming Dread) and that was fun (well, for 50% of the players anyway...), but died nonetheless a couple of turns later...
VLoZDs are the answer!
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On 11/21/2019 at 5:37 AM, Death1942 said:
The blood knights are pretty poor for their points. Best case scenario you sit them on terrain and they charge out and wipe out units.
Well, that’s pretty good as a best case scenario...
I usually run two units of 5, and they have very rarely disappointed me. You can easily get them into cover, easily pile them in in such a way to avoid the most of the opponent retaliation, the minus two bravery thing is huge (more often than not forcing your opponent to spend precious CPs), if they are 16” away of anything they are in by definition because of the guaranteed charge (that’s some serious threat range), you can screen them real well with a single unit of 5 dire wolves, and you can have them dealing very reliable damage by spending a single CP (VLoZD command ability, re-rolling all failed hits). While your opponent is busy trying to get them off the table (intrinsic healing plus vile transference can keep them there quite a long time, and if the enemy doesn’t have rend, good luck to him...) your VLoZDs can get stuff done elsewhere...
In a nutshell: I like them very much! I am not saying they are THE best unit to run in LoB, but they certainly do their job quite well for their points - I think. Very personal opinion, of course, biased by the fact that I love the models and their lore (albeit I had to go for conversions as most people out there...)
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5 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:
I did the math with 12 Reapers. I think that's doable even when charging from one side, though still not easy because we want to be rather far away before. So positioning in a neat circle around him beforehand is completely out of the question. But anyway,
12 Reapers with +2 attacks each, +1 to hit and +1 to wound would do 7 damage on average. He has 8 hit points and even with an average damage of 8, it would just mean a 50% chance to kill him. So seeing how this strategy has 4 of our best heroes in spitting range of him and he'd be alive, it's safe to say we need another tactic. Stupid sexy Gotrek 😱
Also with 20 Reapers and the 4 heroes, we'd have 820 points and 3CP invested. Sure we could hope for a Nighthaunt charge but we'd only get the +1 wound buff for that and we'd still not comfortably get much over a 50% chance to kill him.Grim
Maybe Endless Spells can help in slowing him down? Shackles, Palisade... he can’t (normally) fly...
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On 11/22/2019 at 5:31 PM, The_Dudemeister said:
In the manliest way imaginable. We throw trash at him.
On 11/22/2019 at 7:05 PM, lare2 said:Ignore him? He's crazy slow and we're crazy quick.
Haven't fought him yet mind...
Uh - didn't see these two posts until now!
Sorry guys, it's not like my stuff added anything to what @The_Dudemeister and @lare2 already said!
#RefreshBeforeYouPostYouIdiot
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On 11/22/2019 at 5:08 PM, States said:
How do we deal with gotrek?
By deploying the impossibly cunning strategem that many other factions have to resort to in order to deal with this particularly feisty Son of Grimnir:
"Avoid at all Costs"
He has a 4" move - that's the only thing we can hope to leverage, and even then I am sure that some crafty Order player can cast something / take advantage of some ability to project him right in front of our general (whom is positively going to be utterly dead at the end of said turn).
As NH we have some pretty great mobility (and thus some slim chances to avoid this murderball), but we miss the one thing that can keep him at bay, i.e. feeding him one unit of (say) direwolves per turn (bearing in mind that if you happen to have something else within 3" of said direwolves... well.)
I believe is fair to say the thing is non-killable by conventional means. You need something with a huge number of attacks (preferably 1 damage each, as >1 gets down the drain anyway...) / model, which is easier said that found - he's a tiny model, so there are only so many models we can pile in.
30 reapers spending 3 CPs for +2 attacks each (Vampire Lord and mounted KoS) and +1 to hit (KoS on foot) and a GoS nearby may have a chance? Fighting in two ranks, 10 in would mean 40 attacks, hitting on 3+ wounding on 2-... still not enough, probably. Skaven players shoud be able to do it with a unit of 40 (Death Frienzed and buffed) plague monks, I guess...
But our Reapers don't come back, so it's just not worth it. LoN... maybe I'd try. Or not. No, probably not - just run away from him.
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On 11/19/2019 at 5:54 AM, Honk said:
And I hate saying it, but switching the Bloodknights for a bunch (2x10) of stupid grimghast reapers might be an idea... 8“ fly, summonable, pretty good offense and 4+ unrendable
You could have both!
I currently run 2 units of 5 Blood Knights and a unit of 20 Reapers, with a VL around (~60 attacks [ah, the bell...] on 4+ re-rolling against units with 5+ models? Yes please...).
The Reapers stay on the objective that matters and wait for the opponent to get to them. Shooting, MWs... no problem, 1 CP after they're back. The two units of Blood Knights flank the field instead, supported by VLoZDs and screened by wolves (because we so desperately want to get the charge).
Pro tip: 5 Knights fit on almost every piece of terrain you have on the mat... suddenly, they have a 2+ against anything with no rend!
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2 hours ago, Aaranis said:
Thoughts on it folks ?
What about investing those 100 pts you have currently allocated to extra CPs (as @Sauriv correctly pointed out, you can only buy one now anyway, and you have extra 2 CPs from your 2 battalions in any case) into a KoS (on foot)? Having the Banshees hitting on 3+ might be a rather punchy trick...
2 hours ago, Aaranis said:- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Spirit Drain
Probably not the best choice for a Dreadblade general... I'd go 100% with the Gryph-feather charm instead.
Other than that, yes, it's very low on wounds indeed... you have a decent anvil (SHs) and a solid hammer (Revenants, Banshees if you have them hitting on 3+), yes. Not so many bodies to camp the objectives, though, and - crucially - zero screens as well, everything you have is stuff you definitely don't want to sacrifice. Khorne, Skavens, Deepkin, Orks, BCRaiders... they'll munch whatever you throw at them, including your SHs as you only have 3 in each unit. SHs are uber-tough in units of 9, but a unit of 3 is "just" 9 wounds on a 4+ etheral plus the 6+ ward save... very, very dead. Finally: Reikenor is there for the cogs only, but the whole investment is 170+80 pts... that plus the extra CPs is 20 Reapers - in fact, where are the Reapers?!
50 minutes ago, Sauriv said:But it will be interesting to hear how it goes when you play it 😁
Yes indeed!
AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion
in Death
Posted
It is very true that BKs can and will whiff, I do agree. Everything you need is a command point, though. Your VLoZD CA can make them re roll all failed hits. Raiders and mounts as well. They have been deleting very serious stuff for me when buffed, even when forced into not getting a charge. It is also true that it’s tricky to heal them, but aside for the 1 wound upon a killing we have Vile Transferance, the Emerald Swarm... and, I am very happy to feed dire wolves into the opponent for the entire game. I have multiple units of dogs, 70 pts each is not much for killing points and they come back easily enough. Not to mention the healing... gravesites and heroes alike, their staying power is not zero.
Granted - but the Locus of Shyish is there for other Legions as well. That’s what LoN and LoS do best, I guess, but it’s not LoB?
I’m definitely with you as it concerns Neferata - our takes on BKs might differ, but about Our Beautiful Queen there is no question at all!