Chaos Shepard
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I am more curious about the changes to unit sizes and how that may impact say Ungors. Ungors max size will be 30 and Raiders max size is going to be 20. At least given their current rules. We can all but say goodbye to the Raider's rerolls, provided they don't just out right remove all hoard bonuses in a massive FAQ. Though I am not trying to sound doom and gloom. Thanks to command abilities they can receive +1 to hit with no problem and maybe we can take advantage of Unleash Hell, though at 5+ to hit I am not sure how effective that would be. If you were running them as MSU screens already, I guess there's no real change to that, other then they have to pack themselves a little closer together.
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I am kind of surprised to see the Chimera used as the cover art for the General's Handbook. Though I am a bit perplexed as the cover art Chimera has a Goat head when the current model has a Dragon head.
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Ok who wants to read too much into the New General Hand Book cover art, and get a little conspiratorial. I mean, it is clearly a Chimera. Odd to have it on the cover but maybe they really want to sell the whole Monsters thing and it is one of the most generic/iconic monsters in the game. That said, anyone find it weird that it has a avian, lion, and goat head; when the current model has a avian, lion, and dragon head? Changes to the Chimera perhaps, maybe a new models? I am probably reading to much into things.
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No we still can. Smash to Rubble only removes the warscroll abilities. Sacrificing while near the Herdstone is nowhere on the warscroll. It is part of our faction abilities. We would only lose the -1 armor save and auto pass moral abilities.
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Ya, it doesn't look like it effects battle shock, which is just to bad. Though they are going to have to fix Allherd in an Faq, because the new amount of command points is going to make Allherd broken. Alliteratively there could be a one per turn limit on all Command Abilities.
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Actually that Roar ability could make Bravery Bomb viable. Though this hinges on any changes they make to moral, I am still hoping for something similar to what they did for 40k.
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While it does make the Herdstone more vulnerable, there are some things to keep in mind. Our summoning is not tied to any ability on the Herdstone so even if it gets wrecked since it doesn't say the terrain piece is removed from the battlefield we should still be able to sacrifice on it and use our primordial call points. We should only lose it's aura abilities since those are on the warscroll. Actually I like how this gives counter play to terrain. This might even lure the opponent into the herdstone's range where you can take advantage of it.
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Thanks for the details. I thought you could take a Cygor because I recall the Cygor being mentioned as part of the battalion box. I know the Cygor and Gorgon are the same kit, but I figured if they specifically mention the Cygor then it would surely be part of the battalion.
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Ok I have finally had a chance to see these changes with my own eyes. Here are my thoughts. I like the changes to the Beastlord. They can actually keep up with a unit of Gors/Ungors/Bestigors now. This gives the ability to actually us Grisly Trophy. Next, you can actually use Grisly Trophy. Even in the rare circumstance that I could activate it, I often would rather save the command point for something more important like Inspiring Presence. I am going to start using the Wildfire Taurus again. I should actually see Grisly Trophy in action. Beastlord is still going to need an artifact to make taking one justified. If you really need that re-roll 1 for a critical combat you can always use a command point. Probably didn't need the points increase but I will call this a lateral move at worse. The Jabberslythe just misses the mark. I am not mad just disappointed. It did get some nice buffs else where. Wow a 4+ save on a monster, am I dreaming. If only the Aura of Madness affect friendly units as well, this thing would be amazing. The other problem is the natural roles of 1. So many armies out there can simply reroll 1 and avoid this penalty all together, not to mention the generic command ability everyone has access to that gives a unit reroll 1s. Oh well, the Jabberslythe went from trash unit you never take to trash unit you never take unless you really want to try some shenanigans that probably won't work. The Primal Instincts are literally just buffs with no downsides. Could this have been better, sure lots of things could be better but I don't think that is enough justification to be upset at this. Actually I think the Raging Storm is amazing. Not necessarily for the Dragon Ogors but for the Shaggoth. Every combat phase heal 1 wound on a 2+. That's going to make the Shaggoth hard to ping to death. Next, it doesn't say you have to be in combat to heal just on the table, and combat happen twice every battle round. So the Shaggoth could say sit on the Herdstone and stab itself all day and be no worse for wear. As for the battalion, it sounds like a good battalion. A nice cheap battalion with a nice buff. This is the only one I haven't seen in person so could someone tell me if the +1 bonus only applies to combat or could it buff the Cygor's bolder as well?
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I'm sorry but I don't like getting upset over information I am getting second hand. I also don't see the point over getting upset over what is in essence mostly minor buffs. The Jabberslythe receiving a lateral move at worst.
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This has to be good news. If they have points listed in BR Kragnos, that mean they had to have warscroll rewrites. (edit) I dare not hope, but maybe a command ability that isn't trash.
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I would like to come out and defend the current Bullgor models. I don't think they are half as bad as a lot of people carry on about them. Would I call them attractive models, no I would not. Now I could argue, that the point, but I honestly wouldn't mind if they looked better myself. However, they are currently more than functional, especially when compared to other models out there. First off they are plastic. So much resin and even some metal out there that needs replacing before them. Next lets bring up there anatomy. Sure its more than a little roid central, but its far better than the current Slaves to Darkness's Raiders and miles better than the Skaven monkey rats. Last lets talk about their posses. Maybe not a flamboyant or energetic as some out there but they do have a nice variety built into the kit. Sometimes when a pose it too outlandish, it becomes a little emersion braking when you see it 2 or 3 times in the same unit. The current Bullgors have a nice split of different leg stances, lead with the left foot, lead with the right foot. and centered. Mix in a bunch of different arms and the Bullgors flow together without looking like a bunch of identical copies. Now look at Chaos Warriors and most of Cities of Sigmar whos models all lead with the same foot. It looked fine in rank and file but does not transition well to round bases. I would also like to say the most of the ugliness of the model can be addressed with a different paint scheme. The hard transition between what if fur and what is skin, always looks clunky to me. I generally paint the model to look like the fur covers most of the body, going to a soft transition of skin tones around the mouth and belly. Is the model perfect, no. I do have my own personal issue with it. If I could change one thing I would have to be the legs and feet. Something more less plantigrade and more unguligrade, like my custom Doombull. There are some other minor tweaks here and there that I could make but my point still stands. Ultimately I wouldn't be upset if they went and updated the kit, but I really don't think it as bad or in need of an update, especially when compared to a lot of other stuff.
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Oh that was some good fluff. I am soo thrilled to see some nuances in the beastmen. It's to bad that we know they ultimately fail, maybe they will have some good moments to shine before that happens.
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Don't forget the Jabberslythe. It's not a bad sculpt but it is resin, sort of puts it up there with the Razorgors. In fairness no one really seem to have much to say on the Jabberslythe. It feels like most people only ever took it because the rules where good. Once the rule got a garbage re-right it fell into obscurity. I have never really been a fan of the Jabberslythe so I know that I wouldn't care all that much if it was squated but I was wondering if there were fans of it out there.
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One other think for bullgors I could see is a change to blood greed. Maybe make closer to what it was but in a way that is similar to more modern rules, 6 to hit count as 2 hits is what I have in mind. I feel this could help deliver those few extra hits while still hitting on 4 base.
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I hadn't considered warscroll fixes. Though I don't want to get my hopes up.
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If we are getting a box/battalion I wonder what part Beast of Chaos gets to play in the narrative.
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Changing dice would most certainly change the system. Did you consider how modifiers would work in that system. +1 on a D4 is a massive bonus where a D20 would hardly feel a thing.
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A 3+ on a D4 is the same as a 4+ on a D6. Meanwhile 3+ on a D20 is almost twice as good as 2+ on a D6 and I don't know what adding a bunch of D20 to the game would really improve.
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I thought it would be interesting if Primordial Call points could serve different purposes similar to the way Korn Blood Tithe can.
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I know some people would want Bullgors to go to 3x3 to hit and wound. My problem with this is twofold. First is that 3x3 is way to common at this point, its almost meaningless. Next is that I don't think 3x3 really matches what the Bullgor represents. Bullgors are slow but powerful walls of raw muscle, you best avoid their strike because a glancing blow will send you flying. In that way I would much rather see Bullgors go to 4x2 to hit and wound. Its a bit more swingy than 3x3 but I think it better matchs what a Bullgor should be. Then I would give the Doombull/Beastlord the ability to buff them with a +1 to hit.
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Being able to come in closer than 9 would be broken. Really they just need to remove the first turn restriction on ambush. The thing I am hoping for, above all else, is a meaning full buff to Gors.
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The mortal key word could help beasts access spell lore and artifacts when in a god specific faction. It would also allow allies to target beast with some of their buff spells and abilities.
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Here is something I noticed recently. The Slaangors despite their faults do have the 'Mortal' keyword. Now I don't expect us to lose our Brayherd or Warherd keywords, but maybe we could gain the 'Mortal' keyword. That could be really huge, and open up a lot of options.
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My issue was with a dedicated bodyguard unit for each army. I have nothing wrong with the mechanic in broad terms.
